New to all of this :(

[sno0opy]

Hi all,

I’m just dropping a note to say hello, introduce myself and ask a couple of questions. I have had a look on the forum for the answers but some of them I can’t see – it may be that some one has some common links they can share

34, previous fit male, same story as many im sure – let myself go with kids and im now at 17 stone.

Got a test due to night time bathroom sessions being a worry, found myself at 82 (Units?) where i should be a 40’s. There is history in my family but no doubt the weight has stung me here.

Looks like I have had it a while, weight and high blood sugar has damaged my liver so I need to fix that also with any luck.

For 4 weeks I have been on a low (ish) carb, no sugar diet with plenty of exercise, dropped 1.5 stone so far but also have been told to take Metformin. Waiting to see how this impacts me I would guess in a few months when the test is repeated?


Few questions:

I have seen people stating they are refusing medication and going against it with diet and exercise. Is there any benefit to this? My thinking was im better to use the medication to reduce my blood sugars to half the damage and risk, loose the weight then have a go when im fit and healthy at taking the meds away. Can the medication affect your ability to beat it in the long term?

Should I have a blood sugar monitor? I didn’t get one from the Dr’s, will I get one I do I have to buy one – if not does anyone have recommendations for a brand? I would like to know more regularly then nurse visits what my blood sugar is so I can understand how particular foods or meals are interacting with my body?

Are things like bulgar wheat/quinoa/wholwheat pasta consider low carb enough - or are they going to impact the benefits.

Thanks for your time

 

[Diakat]

Hi @sno0opy

Have a read of this:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.26870/

Testing will help you work out if bulgar etc work for you. @Rachox has some info on test kits.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hello @sno0opy,

You think you have questions now... Just you wait. The more you learn, the more questions pop up. But the ones you pose are a really good place to start. Couple of things: You probably gained weight because you are prone to T2. It's a symptom, not a cause, of your body becoming ever more insensitive to its own insulin. If insulin isn't helping you burn off glucose anymore, then the glucose gets stored in fat cells. Once the stores are full, the glucose just ends up everywhere: in blood, saliva, tears, organs... I know I got rather big and did everything my dietician said, but she didn't account for my inability to process carbs. So she told me to go high carb, low fat, which is exactly the reverse of what a T2 needs. I just ended up even bigger and a full fledged T2, while if we'd caught it early -and someone had bothered to tell me I was prediabetic, as my file stated- it never would've gotten this far. So even if you hadn't "let yourself go", as you put it, how would you have tackled the weight gain? Because going low fat wasn't going to help, and that's everyone's go-to diet. What I'm trying to say here: Don't blame yourself. You didn't know. Now you do.

As for your questions: Metformin can have severe side effects for some. They were horrible for me. So I started looking for an alternative. In three months of LCHF I was off all diabetes medication (the metformin was swapped for gliclazide, which gave me hypo's), as well as off the statins for my cholesterol. My HbA1c, the 3 month average of bloodglucose, has been solidly in the normal range since I changed my diet and stopped the medication, and has remained that way for 3 years. Usually, people do have a choice, provided their pancreas still works and hasn't been wrung out after years of overproducing insulin, when it comes to how to tackle this. There's diet only, which means a permanent change in lifestyle. It's low carb, for the rest of your life. (If you stop you'll be right back where you started). Perks of low carb: The T2 usually doesn't progress any further, while it is normally considered a progressive condition. You can actually stop it in its tracks and reverse it, and the damage it has done. Another perk: no complications. Meaning you get to keep your feet, kidneys and eyesight. Then there's people who do both low carb and medication, which depending on the medication, can work just fine. (Not advisable with gliclazide, but quite do-able on metformin). And then there's medication-only... Which is basically using a thimble to empty a leaking boat. It will sink, no matter how many thimbles you toss overboard. T2 will progress, there will be complications (from never-ending fungal infections to the more serious stuff), and in all likelihood you will progress to insulin. Now, considering your age, I do think you want to avoid being insulin-dependant eventually. So that's why a lot of us choose diet or diet & medication, but rarely ever meds only. because they don't change anything about your condition... As for the metformin, it doesn't do anything about what you eat. Your liver dumps glucose in the morning to get you started for the day, thinks it's helping by giving you "breakfast" that way. Metformin reduces the liver dump by up to 75%. And that's about it. If you eat a gallon of icecream, the metformin won't do anything about that. It's not what it was designed for.

T2's don't get a bloodsugar monitor unless they are on bloodsugarlowering medication like gliclazide and its bedfellows, or insulin. The bulk of us here self-fund. I hear good things about the Tee2 and the Codefree. The meters aren't the cost, the strips are, and those have the cheapest strips. (If you go for a diet change, you'll need a lot of them before you know what works for you). I'm in the Netherlands, so have a different brand. (With insanely expensive strips.).

All the things you mentioned, except maybe a little bit of quinoa, but I don't use the stuff myself, are all high carb. It doesn't matter if something's white or brown, artisanal or whole wheat.... If it's made of flour, corn, rice, potatoes and whatnot, it is higher in carbs than most of us can process back out again. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ will help, it's my own quick-start guide. More in-depth info is on this forum's website, diabetes.co.uk (not .org!), dietdoctor.com (don't need to sign up, lots on there is free) and Dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code. It's a god read, not dry at all. (And I've read m share of T2 books).

One more thing: T2 usually comes in a package: Metabolic Syndrome. That covers T2, obesity, high bloodpressure, high cholesterol, and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. I had all of that except for the high bloodpressure, and it ALL got fixed on low carb. My bloodwork doesn't even show anymore that it was ever so fatty that the specialist thought it was one big cancerous mass rather than a stacking of fat. There isn't really any medication that'll fix your liver, so that's another reason for low carb... Because that can actually fix it.

Good luck!
Jo

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Yes do get a glucose meter. They are all good in different ways. Look at the test strip cost when buying one. Manufacturers will often provide a meter free if you ask them. Metformin never does much to reduce BS. The plain version can cause bowel upset but the Slow Release version (SR) is much kinder. You can have any kind of carb but just keep the daily total down to perhaps 150gm/day or a lot less

 

[There is no Spoon]

I have seen people stating they are refusing medication and going against it with diet and exercise. Is there any benefit to this? My thinking was im better to use the medication to reduce my blood sugars to half the damage and risk, loose the weight then have a go when im fit and healthy at taking the meds away. Can the medication affect your ability to beat it in the long term?

Hi Sno00py, mabey this will help you understand why people decline medication. By diet alone you can reverse type 2 in many cases, in less than 3 months.

With this knowledge the "long term" you refer to is 3 months. Some people use medication some don't, there are side effects nothing to radical. It's not an anti medication cult thing medication is essential in the treatment of type 1 diabetes but not so much in Type 2.

Diet and exercise is there any benefit to this?
Very simple version

• Your liver gets clogged up with fat because your body cant handle sugar properly.
• So you put on even more weight which cloggs and the liver up with even more fat.
• Which means you body gets worse at handling sugar properly.

Solution diet and exercise:

• This unclogs the liver
• Blood sugar goes down.

There is no need for medication in this process.

 

[Prem51]

Got a test due to night time bathroom sessions being a worry, found myself at 82 (Units?) where i should be a 40’s. There is history in my family but no doubt the weight has stung me here.

Welcome to the forum @sno0opy. Your blood test (hbA1c) result of 82 would be in the IFCC scale. In the UK below 42 is non-diabetic, 42-47 is pre-diabetic, and 48 and above is diabetic.
You should ask your GP surgery for a printout of your test results as it gives you a lot of useful information.

Yes you should get a blood glucose meter to find out how different foods affect your blood glucose levels, an so you can monitor your bg levels between HbA1c tests.
I use a TEE2+ meter as the strips only cost £7.55 for 50. Others can cost 3/4 times that which mounts up if you are testing a lot. The TEE2+ costs £9.99, but if you phone the supplier www.spirit-healthcare.co.uk to order they might send you a free meter.
Their tel no is 0116 286 5000.

It's up to you whether you want to go on medication. Metformin is regarded as a generally benign medication but can have unpleasant gastric side effects for the first couple of weeks at least. If these persist you can ask your gp for the Slow Release version which has less side effects.
You should be retested after 3 months initially.

 

[sno0opy]

Thanks for all the useful information, i have been reading up plenty.

I'm going to stick with the medication , i have been taking it and i seem to have avoided any side effects which is lucky. Im going on it because it was recommended, but it also gives me motivation.

Was never a big drinking but a bit of a "binger" when i did drink, the medication forces me to be T total which will help with weight loss. What killed previous attempts to loose weight was also will power crumbling after a night out thinking "well i may as well have a bacon butty after the pints and kebab! Then it spirals down into months of bad habits!".

Also i'm just wondering if the fasting blood sugar means anything to type 2? Since the issue is the body not being able to process sugars properly, im guessing that a good reading in a morning before eating dosnt mean much - is that test more for type 1?

Mine this morning was 5.1 which is normal i think?

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks for all the useful information, i have been reading up plenty.

I'm going to stick with the medication , i have been taking it and i seem to have avoided any side effects which is lucky. Im going on it because it was recommended, but it also gives me motivation.

Was never a big drinking but a bit of a "binger" when i did drink, the medication forces me to be T total which will help with weight loss. What killed previous attempts to loose weight was also will power crumbling after a night out thinking "well i may as well have a bacon butty after the pints and kebab! Then it spirals down into months of bad habits!".

Also i'm just wondering if the fasting blood sugar means anything to type 2? Since the issue is the body not being able to process sugars properly, im guessing that a good reading in a morning before eating dosnt mean much - is that test more for type 1?

Mine this morning was 5.1 which is normal i think?

Fasting blood glucose actually does matter. In the morning our liver dumps glucose, to give us energy to start the day. Its called Dawn Phenomenon. The more glucose is stored in there, and the higher numbers you're used to, the more it will dump. With the metformin, your liver dumps up to 75% less glucose, so your rise in the morning is lower than it was before you were on it. So yes, your fasting glucose is normal, but you achieved it through medication. So basically, it doesn't say squat about where you're at with the diabetes-control. (Sorry. ) For people on diets, the FBG is the last to come down: it's the one indicator that tells us we're truly where we should be, diabetes-wise. So yes, the number does matter, depending on how it is achieved, and it's not a T1-only thing. So whatever path you end up taking, that's something that might be useful to know.

What you really want to know is your bloodsugar before a meal, and 2 hours after the first bite. If you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, the meal was carbier than you could process back out again. And the metformin isn't going to assist you there, alas. Morning bloodsugars rise a little... The ones after a meal can spike well into double digits though. So those are the numbers that tell you exactly where you're at. You can still opt for both met and diet combined, as you want to stick with the metformin. Just know that the leaflet probably says met should be given to patients after they have unsuccessfully tried diet to control their bloodglucose for 3 months. (Yeah, practically all of us got put straight onto metformin, so that's the standard...)

I don't know whether you're scheduled to up your metformin later (you may have mentioned it but I'm a little busy this morning, so no time to go through the thread), but when you do up the dosage, keep making sure you take it with a meal. Met on an empty stomach's usually not a good idea, gastrically speaking. And @Prem51 makes a good point: if it does become uncomfortable if your dosage is upped, go for the slow release kind.

Good luck eh.
Jo

 

[sno0opy]

Fasting blood glucose actually does matter. In the morning our liver dumps glucose, to give us energy to start the day. Its called Dawn Phenomenon. The more glucose is stored in there, and the higher numbers you're used to, the more it will dump. With the metformin, your liver dumps up to 75% less glucose, so your rise in the morning is lower than it was before you were on it. So yes, your fasting glucose is normal, but you achieved it through medication. So basically, it doesn't say squat about where you're at with the diabetes-control. (Sorry. ) For people on diets, the FBG is the last to come down: it's the one indicator that tells us we're truly where we should be, diabetes-wise. So yes, the number does matter, depending on how it is achieved, and it's not a T1-only thing. So whatever path you end up taking, that's something that might be useful to know.

What you really want to know is your bloodsugar before a meal, and 2 hours after the first bite. If you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, the meal was carbier than you could process back out again. And the metformin isn't going to assist you there, alas. Morning bloodsugars rise a little... The ones after a meal can spike well into double digits though. So those are the numbers that tell you exactly where you're at. You can still opt for both met and diet combined, as you want to stick with the metformin. Just know that the leaflet probably says met should be given to patients after they have unsuccessfully tried diet to control their bloodglucose for 3 months. (Yeah, practically all of us got put straight onto metformin, so that's the standard...)

I don't know whether you're scheduled to up your metformin later (you may have mentioned it but I'm a little busy this morning, so no time to go through the thread), but when you do up the dosage, keep making sure you take it with a meal. Met on an empty stomach's usually not a good idea, gastrically speaking. And @Prem51 makes a good point: if it does become uncomfortable if your dosage is upped, go for the slow release kind.

Good luck eh.
Jo

Thanks for this, its really useful, at the moment im only on the one tablet of Metformin (I take one 500mg tablet in the morning). At least its working in the morning at least, i will have to keep an eye on that i didn't realize that was its purpose, im supposed to up to 3 tablets a day over the next couple of weeks. Need to keep an eye to make sure it dosnt push my morning blood sugars too low i suppose as im doing some really early exercise sessions!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks for this, its really useful, at the moment im only on the one tablet of Metformin (I take one 500mg tablet in the morning). At least its working in the morning at least, i will have to keep an eye on that i didn't realize that was its purpose, im supposed to up to 3 tablets a day over the next couple of weeks. Need to keep an eye to make sure it dosnt push my morning blood sugars too low i suppose as im doing some really early exercise sessions!

Metformin in all likelyhood will not make you go hypo. It doesn't up your insulin production, so you can't crash. There have been exceptions to the rule (just like the "unmedicated T2's can't hypo" rule: I know I have, on occasion, but I am a weird one.). So you can just do your thing and it should be okay. When you exercise your liver dumps extra glucose to keep you going (well, with strenuous exercise... If you take a long, steady walk it doesn't.), so your blood sugars may end up a little higher than they were before you started your work-out. But I doubt it'll be all that much, with metformin in play.

 

[VashtiB]

Hi and welcome,

I found that even with metformin exercise raises my blood sugar levels. At first I was really paranoid about this- how slow would I need to walk not to raise them. Now my thinking is that if they are raised the glucose must have come from stored glucose and I want to get rid of that stored glucose so the exercise is a good thing. I'm not sure what more experienced people think of that train of thought but it works for me.

Good luck