Tooth problems and chronic disease

[Cocosilk]

I'm just wondering how many people with diabetes also have problems with their teeth.

Have you found any links between tooth problems and high cholesterol?

How about teeth and the heart?

I've been to the dentist many times in my life. Most of my teeth have fillings. Quite a number have root canal fillings. I've had apical curettage done a couple of times. My oldest root canal treatments are about 25 years old now and I'm contemplating having them pulled finally after the roots reinfected and the root tips were cut out. Bone graft material was put in 25 years ago after one of the operations where they scraped out an infection in the jaw bone and I wonder if they really cleaned it out properly since new absesses appeared some years later. Maybe there is always some remaining bacteria...

Has anyone had old dental work removed (tooth extracted) and noticed any improvement in their general health? Perhaps an improvement on hs-CRP if your diabetes was already well controlled?

Just reading this too https://www.dentistryiq.com/clinica...on-and-its-impact-on-clinical-dental-practice

 

[ickihun]

I'm just wondering how many people with diabetes also have problems with their teeth.

Have you found any links between tooth problems and high cholesterol?

How about teeth and the heart?

I've been to the dentist many times in my life. Most of my teeth have fillings. Quite a number have root canal fillings. I've had apical curettage done a couple of times. My oldest root canal treatments are about 25 years old now and I'm contemplating having them pulled finally after the roots reinfected and the root tips were cut out. Bone graft material was put in 25 years ago after one of the operations where they scraped out an infection in the jaw bone and I wonder if they really cleaned it out properly since new absesses appeared some years later. Maybe there is always some remaining bacteria...

Has anyone had old dental work removed (tooth extracted) and noticed any improvement in their general health? Perhaps an improvement on hs-CRP if your diabetes was already well controlled?

Just reading this too https://www.dentistryiq.com/clinica...on-and-its-impact-on-clinical-dental-practice

Always had gum disease and stained enamel due to too many antibiotics as a child too. Dentist said he wouldn't do whitening on me.
It doesn't stop me smiling still. If it ever does I'd get veneers, with a pension pot.

 

[bulkbiker]

between tooth problems and high cholesterol

Do you mean cholesterol or high blood sugar levels?
Never heard of a cholesterol link..

 

[ickihun]

The link I am aware of is high bg and dental problems.
When our bg is high, our body tries to get rid of the excess sugar. That is why one symptom of diabetes is peeing a lot, it is also why my tears tasted sweet when I was first diagnosed. And the excess sugar may come out in our saliva. This can cause tooth decay.

My dentist said with good oral hygiene/ twice daily cleaning can keep that at bay.
Mine are discoloured rather than corroding.

 

[ickihun]

Do you mean cholesterol or high blood sugar levels?
Never heard of a cholesterol link..

Heart disease is linked to poor oral hygiene. I'll try and find something to support for you to read.
Didn't know about cholesterol?
I now think if plac is building up in teeth maybe in vessels too. I've notice a huge reduction in plac building up since Roux-en-y. Maybe diet related rather than cholesterol.

Ooops! Think tagged wrong member, sorry @bulkbiker.

@Cocosilk I was intending on this reply for you.

 

[Mbaker]

I always forget to mention that when I went on my "health kick" in November 2014 (more oats, high fructose fruits, dates, orange juice, rice pudding, flour pancakes, along with regular rice, pasta and the like with home cooked meals), one of my teeth literally crumbled and I definitely had bleeding gums (so most likely gum disease). No such issues now. I know I have read about gum disease and diabetes / heart disease.

 

[zand]

The worst culprit for me was fizzy drinks (not sugary ones) wearing away tooth enamel.

 

[Member496333]

Heart disease is linked to poor oral hygiene.

This is apparently true but personally I believe it's a coexisting symptom of dysglycemia and metabolic syndrome. A body saturated with glucose isn't going to do much good to the teeth or the heart.

 

[Cocosilk]

Do you mean cholesterol or high blood sugar levels?
Never heard of a cholesterol link..

I meant cholesterol. I wondered if higher cholesterol is also something that goes hand in hand with the chronic inflammation of dental issues.

But I also wondered of course about diabetes in general and tooth problems, which I guess is the high blood sugar and tooth decay link. That one seems more obvious since we always here about "sugar rotting teeth" but the cholesterol one I hadn't thought of until I started reading about the CVD risk link to oral health.

 

[Cocosilk]

Heart disease is linked to poor oral hygiene. I'll try and find something to support for you to read.
Didn't know about cholesterol?
I now think if plac is building up in teeth maybe in vessels too. I've notice a huge reduction in plac building up since Roux-en-y. Maybe diet related rather than cholesterol.

Ooops! Think tagged wrong member, sorry @bulkbiker.

@Cocosilk I was intending on this reply for you.

Tooth problems are definitely diet related. What I hadn't thought about was how it's not always sweet things but carbs that stick, like chips, and bread, but also things like dried fruits.

But the way our diet affects us on the inside also affects how strong our teeth will be too I imagine.

And cleaning our teeth might not even be necessary if we ate a more natural diet.

I just wondered whether, since cholesterol levels rise when the body is trying to heal itself, maybe chronic dental problems would raise cholesterol levels somehow too. I dunno.

 

[Member496333]

I think with all of this stuff - the entire body - there are myriad links reported between various conditions and diseases, but no one ever seems to talk much about what they are linked by. Just because one thing is linked to another does not mean one causes the other. Firstly the direction of causation is often confused or unknown. Secondly, there may be no direction of causation at all - the cause may be something else (sugar?).

I'm of the opinion that it's more likely for tooth decay and CHD to be caused by some other common culprit, than it is for tooth decay to cause CHD or vice-versa. Correlation is pretty meaningless. Lazily constructed and/or poorly reported 'studies' are to blame for the confusion, and often it's even intentional. It's a problem that plagues science of all disciplines. Again - only in my opinion.

 

[Cocosilk]

I always forget to mention that when I went on my "health kick" in November 2014 (more oats, high fructose fruits, dates, orange juice, rice pudding, flour pancakes, along with regular rice, pasta and the like with home cooked meals), one of my teeth literally crumbled and I definitely had bleeding gums (so most likely gum disease). No such issues now. I know I have read about gum disease and diabetes / heart disease.

Yes, those foods we think are good for us turn out to be as bad as any lolly or cake... I ate porridge for years, along with fruit, pancakes rice, pasta etc. Plus I had a sweet tooth for biscuits, cakes and chocolate. My teeth didn't stand a chance...

But I also had the bad luck of a mobile dental van coming to our primary school where the young apprentice dentists could practise on the school kids, and because I had an underbite, I was fitted with a plate with a section that could be screwed to slowly push my front teeth forward. Then throughout high school I remember how painful it was to drink from the cold taps when the water would hit my front teeth. I didn't make the connection then, or even the year after I finished high school when 3 or my 4 front teeth died when an abscess was discovered. It only took another 20 years for me to make the connection between the dental plate from my early childhood and the unfortunate surprise abscess 10 years later.
Now I still have those teeth (long dead) with root canal fillings and I'm not sure I should keep them forever. 25 years seems long enough to have dead teeth in to cause problems if the reinfect, which mine have. I dunno. I'm also just looking for other possible causes of my high cholesterol and heart palpitations but there are so many reasons for either of those things that I'll probably never know if it's because of one thing or the other, or a combination.

 

[Cocosilk]

This is apparently true but personally I believe it's a coexisting symptom of dysglycemia and metabolic syndrome. A body saturated with glucose isn't going to do much good to the teeth or the heart.

Could we then assume that most of us here have pretty bad teeth in that case?

 

[Member496333]

Could we then assume that most of us here have pretty bad teeth in that case?

I wouldn't assume anything, but certainly those consuming lots of carbohydrate are at higher risk of tooth decay. The digestive process starts in the mouth, and carbohydrates are chains of glucose, so it doesn't take much of a leap to propose a hypothesis

 

[bulkbiker]

I meant cholesterol. I wondered if higher cholesterol is also something that goes hand in hand with the chronic inflammation of dental issues.

But I also wondered of course about diabetes in general and tooth problems, which I guess is the high blood sugar and tooth decay link. That one seems more obvious since we always here about "sugar rotting teeth" but the cholesterol one I hadn't thought of until I started reading about the CVD risk link to oral health.

You are of course assuming that cholesterol has anything to do with CVD.. inflammation I would agree probably has..

 

[Cocosilk]

I think with all of this stuff - the entire body - there are myriad links reported between various conditions and diseases, but no one ever seems to talk much about what they are linked by. Just because one thing is linked to another does not mean one causes the other. Firstly the direction of causation is often confused or unknown. Secondly, there may be no direction of causation at all - the cause may be something else (sugar?).

I'm of the opinion that it's more likely for tooth decay and CHD to be caused by some other common culprit, than it is for tooth decay to cause CHD or vice-versa. Correlation is pretty meaningless. Lazily constructed and/or poorly reported 'studies' are to blame for the confusion, and often it's even intentional. It's a problem that plagues science of all disciplines. Again - only in my opinion.

In "That Sugar Film" they try to show how it does all come down to sugar (carbs in general) in the diet that leads to all our ills. It makes sense really. So having some metabolic dysfunction, tooth problems, high cholesterol and heart palpitations makes me think I can probably already predict my cause of death to be a heart attack at some point...
Not sure I can turn it around if I have necrotic bacteria trapped in my jawbone from where the dentist scraped out some of the abscess and put in some bone graft material that may have grown around and lock in bacteria (which is what I have read might be what happens...). I can change my diet and start exercising and still have low-lying chronic inflammation due to endodontic bacteria which apparently have been discovered in clots that cause heart attacks. But then again, we are all going to die of something anyway, aren't we? I just hope it happens quickly whenever it is my time

 

[Cocosilk]

You are of course assuming that cholesterol has anything to do with CVD.. inflammation I would agree probably has..

I think it makes sense that cholesterol might be there in higher numbers when inflammation is present if its job is to help heal.
So even if it's not what actually clogs your arteries (even though it might look like that) wouldn't having higher cholesterol still potentially raise red flags? But maybe only if it's the small dense LDL, right? The large fluffy LDL that most people have when they eat low carb / keto / carnivore apparently isn't hurting anything, is it? I dunno. There so much conflicting information out there...

 

[barbherod]

At a slight tangent New Scientist ran an article a few weeks ago about newly discovered links between gum disease and Alzheimer's. Interesting.
By the way I am 75, have been type 2 for more than 20 years and still have all my teeth. Admittedly have fillings, but most of these would predate the T2 diagnosis. I think some lucky people just have stronger teeth to begin with. As a war baby I was lucky enough to have great nutrition and not much sweet food because of rationing.

 

[Tophat1900]

I think with all of this stuff - the entire body - there are myriad links reported between various conditions and diseases, but no one ever seems to talk much about what they are linked by. Just because one thing is linked to another does not mean one causes the other. Firstly the direction of causation is often confused or unknown. Secondly, there may be no direction of causation at all - the cause may be something else (sugar?).

I'm of the opinion that it's more likely for tooth decay and CHD to be caused by some other common culprit, than it is for tooth decay to cause CHD or vice-versa. Correlation is pretty meaningless. Lazily constructed and/or poorly reported 'studies' are to blame for the confusion, and often it's even intentional. It's a problem that plagues science of all disciplines. Again - only in my opinion.

I think part of the problem with oral health is that bacteria build up on and in particular between teeth etc is constantly making it's way into the gut and into the blood stream. Bacteria I believe can cause damage to the heart. I think on one of Ivor cummins interview with Bill Blanchet he talks about how even just flossing can have a positive impact on CAC scan results. I wouldn't say it was a sole contributor, but It seems likely it contributes to heart disease and risk.

 

[Brunneria]

Could we then assume that most of us here have pretty bad teeth in that case?

Absolutely not.
I am 52, no fillings, no missing teeth, no gum issues.
I really feel for people with gum and tooth problems, especially if they are linked to high blood glucose.
And I’m v lucky that my family seem to have good teeth.

But Diabetes, glucose dysregulation and dental problems do not go automatically hand in hand.

I read this book recently.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dental-Die...&s=gateway&sprefix=The+dental+,aps,147&sr=8-1
The main premise is that modern diets/lifestyle have led to v poor dental health, reduced bone development in jaws, and demineralised teeth. Vit D and K deficiency are key factors, the author reckons.
Those of us already aware of the links between K, D, magnesium, calcium, heart health and hyperinsulinaemia, won’t find any new revelations, but i was interested to see that the author’s primary goal is dental health, not metabolic syndrome, due to his career.