You’ve cut out too much sugar!

[Fndwheelie]

I went to the doctors yesterday and saw the diabetic nurse due to spending all night and half the day dropping into hypo territory. I wanted reassurance that now I’m not on insulin or any diabetic medication the hypos weren’t really something to worry about, or that there was something else going on.

Regarding my latest hab1c was 58, that was done about 5 weeks after my previous which was 85, she said that being that it’s not a full 12 weeks between tests that it was too quick a drop, I needed to reduce the hab1c steadily.

She said “you’ve cut out too much sugar. Our bodies still need some sugar every day, just as a diabetic you were eating too much. You can’t cut out all sugar.” Her suggestion if I wanted to carry on eating what I am that I have a couple of cups of tea a day with a spoon of sugar in.

My thoughts were maybe I’ve been producing more insulin than needed due to insulin resistance and the diet had stopped the insulin resistance but my body hadn’t dropped the insulin production yet.

All in all I came away feeling not like I’d made changes that had helped me and rather defeated. Ended up going for fish and chips from the chippy to improve my mood and cos I was hypo again.

I guess what I’m asking you guys is:-
1) Do I need a certain amount of sugar a day? If so how much?
2) Can you drop hab1c too quickly? Should/can I do something to undo this?
3) Do you think my insulin resistance theory is possible? Or am I totally miss understanding things?
4) Are hypos that you don’t feel unwell with dangerous for type 2 no insulin or medication for diabetes? 3.0-3.9 blood sugar?

Thanks in advance for you thoughts and input into this. I’m starting to think I trust a few random strangers on the internet more than I trust the HCPs ‘dedicated to improving my health’.

 

[moori]

Youre right, i think.
When your body isn't used to being low carb, it can do all weird things. As a type 1 and low carb, my insulin doses have definately dropped and HbA1C! so just keep doing it, maybe with a little carbs a day ( i do coated fish) and slowly your body will get used to it...
Good luck

 

[Member496333]

There is no human requirement to consume carbohydrate. If you need to in order to prevent hypoglycaemia then there is an issue which needs to be resolved, and not by eating sugar.

 

[EllieM]

I went to the doctors yesterday and saw the diabetic nurse due to spending all night and half the day dropping into hypo territory.

Out of interest, how low was that?

Ok, just realised that 3 to 3.9.

I'd argue that if you aren't on meds then you won't go too low (though the reactive hypoglycemia folk may disagree). I suspect your body is just getting used to less sugar. (Disclaimer, I am not a doctor).

The medical folk aren't keen on too sudden changes in blood sugar as it can be harmful to various bodily organs (eg eyes). I would argue that any damage (debateable) has already been done and you can now benefit from the lower levels.

 

[Mbaker]

You will feel "funny" with drops. It's a bit like going to the gym for the first time in a while.

I would not add any further sugar, that's the last thing ever. Maybe eat some more protein based foods (ted meat), that way if your body needs glucose it can make it on demand.

Keep up the great work.

 

[bulkbiker]

I’m starting to think I trust a few random strangers on the internet more than I trust the HCPs ‘dedicated to improving my health’.

Well we've probably had better success than many HCP's...

Are you currently on any medication? Both for T2 or anything else?

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Your nurse is wrong and proffering incorrect advice ref carbs. Your body can obtain all the glucose it needs from the fats and proteins veg and fruit you eat ,but having some carbs is fine especially if you are an athlete. Reducing your carb intake suddenly may cause your body to produce a little too much insulin for a while as it adjusts from reduced IR etc. Without any meds you are unlikely to go really hypo.

 

[Guzzler]

"When you start very low carb your BASAL insulin will remain much higher than that of healthy people for months or even years. In fact, as a T2 diabetic, your insulin can be double or triple well into LC compared to a morbidly obese, but metabolically healthy human's." Gabor Erdosi (A boffin who actually understands metabolic syndrome - unlike the nurse).

NB Gabor is speaking to endogenous insulin.

I would add that it is likely to take longer for endogenous insulin production to fall the longer one has had T2 Diabetes but this is just an opinion of mine.

And to end, I would not add in more sugar, especially table sugar, to raise my blood glucose levels being that it is half-and-half fructose and glucose and we all know what fructose does in the liver.

 

[HSSS]

1) Do I need a certain amount of sugar a day? If so how much?
2) Can you drop hab1c too quickly? Should/can I do something to undo this?
3) Do you think my insulin resistance theory is possible? Or am I totally miss understanding things?
4) Are hypos that you don’t feel unwell with dangerous for type 2 no insulin or medication for diabetes? 3.0-3.9 blood sugar?

1. No. You do not need any sugar. Crazy she should believe this. You don’t even NEED carbs. Your body can make what glucose you need from proteins and you are likely to still eat a few via veg etc anyway so enough for health of the brain.
2. In rare cases (via insulin usually) it can cause eye issues if the drops are large enough - that are reversible I understand. I’d have thought you are past this point anyway by now (they’ve already dropped and whilst great wasn’t as much as some manage eg 80mmol or more in 3 months!) so I wouldn’t stop low carb now in your shoes.
3. I’m sure your resistance has improved. But as already said it takes time for it all to come back into line.
4. If you are on no medications for the diabetes and don’t feel unwell I wouldn’t be eating sugar as a response. Again as said metabolically health people are often in the 3’s. As you settle longer into low carb the potentially higher levels of insulin you still over produce will fall and stop “overreacting” to the carbs you do eat. If you really feel you need something maybe a much lower carb item to just nudge it up a tiny bit at a time.

Your nurse sounds like outdated and not very supportive. She should have been congratulating you for your achievements.

 

[JohnEGreen]

@Fndwheelie I believe your profile says you are on insulin is that correct because if so any advise here would be fundamentally changed as going low carb while on insulin would need to be managed very carefully so as to prevent hypoglycemia.

 

[Fndwheelie]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I need to take time to read and digest them. Bit busy now but just wanted to address this point about insulin.

@Fndwheelie I believe your profile says you are on insulin is that correct because if so any advise here would be fundamentally changed as going low carb while on insulin would need to be managed very carefully so as to prevent hypoglycemia.

I WAS on insulin, but have stopped it 5-6 weeks ago. I’m no longer on ANY medication for diabetes. I know I need to update my profile soon. Sorry for any confusion caused.

 

[Fndwheelie]

Are you currently on any medication? Both for T2 or anything else?

No direct medication for diabetes, my current medication is:-
Methenanine hippurate 1g - to help prevent UTIs
Ascorbic acid 500mg - to help the methenanine work
Loratadine 10mg - hayfeaver tablet
Lisinopril 2.5mg - to protect my kidneys as they were being damaged due to bladder condition and diabetes was blamed as well.

 

[Fndwheelie]

This was a screen grab of my Libre scan about 4:30am after I corrected. The lowest the Libre read was 3.2 I checked with a finger prick and it said 3.0. Yesterday during the day when I dropped it was mid to high 3s (checked and accurate enough to finger prick) and I never felt unwell or off in any way. I did feel shaky and groggy when I woke at 3:30 am with the 3.2 scan 3.0 finger prick, but that may have been as I’d just woke up scanned and got a shock.

 

[Fndwheelie]

I hope I have answered all your queries and given you a fuller picture of my situation. I have read what you all answered me with, but it will take me reading a few more times for me to understand and absorb the information. If you have anything further to add or ask please do so I appreciate every opinion.

 

[Member496333]

Definitely advisable to monitor things closely. It's conceivable that you may have a glucagon issue. Perhaps glucagon resistance, or maybe alpha cell dysfunction in the pancreas. Not something I know much about, but certainly if you are flirting with hypoglycaemia without medications then it may be worthwhile asking to be referred to an endocrinologist.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Lisinopril is an ACE inhibitor and can sometimes effect blood sugar levels it may be an idea to bring this up this with your doctor or DN.

 

[smw99]

As far as HbA1c is concerned the most recent 4 weeks contributes about 50% of the result. It isn't an average of 12 weeks but is 'weighted' to the most recent weeks. So 5 weeks of change can have a significant impact.

 

[Walking Girl]

It doesn’t look like RH from when it is happening. Are you checking with a finger stick also? That is what Abbott suggest when you get a reading that does not match you feel. I’ve run into several wonky meters, both low and high. Vitamin C messes with The Libre also, as with most CGMs, although I think it’s supposed to cause higher readings, not low ones.

 

[milesrf]

I went to the doctors yesterday and saw the diabetic nurse due to spending all night and half the day dropping into hypo territory. I wanted reassurance that now I’m not on insulin or any diabetic medication the hypos weren’t really something to worry about, or that there was something else going on.

Regarding my latest hab1c was 58, that was done about 5 weeks after my previous which was 85, she said that being that it’s not a full 12 weeks between tests that it was too quick a drop, I needed to reduce the hab1c steadily.

She said “you’ve cut out too much sugar. Our bodies still need some sugar every day, just as a diabetic you were eating too much. You can’t cut out all sugar.” Her suggestion if I wanted to carry on eating what I am that I have a couple of cups of tea a day with a spoon of sugar in..

Most of your body can switch from using glucose as its energy source to using ketones instead. Your liver can convert proteins into glucose more that fast enough to supply the part on your body that cannot convert to using ketones. Your liver also converts fats into ketones when they are needed. Many of the older diabetics are afraid of ketones, due to the excessively high level of ketones produced when the insulin level is too low. Very high levels of ketones are fatal. However, lower levels of ketones are present when your body is burning off your fat stores, but otherwise healthy. I suspect that your diabetic nurse has not kept up with this newer information about ketones.

Also, you need to read about dawn phenomenon, which can make your blood glucose level very high in the morning if it gets too low during the night.

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/diabetes-resources/definitions/dawn-phenomenon/

 

[Resurgam]

Newer information?
It is in Dr Atkins New diet revolution printed 1992 - I don't have anything older - so not to know does rather seem like closing the eyes, putting fingers in ears and going 'nyer nyer nyer' as loudly as possible.....