Constant high (13.7+) BS reading

carophie04

Well-Known Member
Messages
51
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
I was diagnosed a month ago with Type 2 and told by GP to try dieting for three months before they will do anything - other than a check with the diabetic nurse (due 30th of this month). I have been feeling really unwell - sweating profusely, tired to the point of feeling comatosed, lack of sleep through going to the loo 3/4 times a night. Having bought myself a Monitor I find that my readings are constantly between 13 - 17. I am not on any diabetic medication. I feel it is not good that GP seems to think just go off for three months and cut down on sweet things and carbs leaving me in this very uncomfortable state.
 

borofergie

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,169
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia
How long have you been testing for? Do you know what your HbA1c was when you were diagnosed?

A month is still a relatively short time and, depending on how high your blood sugars were in the first place, and how high your insulin resistance is, it can take a while for your BG to drop.

How much carbohydrate are you eating? Can you comfortably eat any less?

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to try you out on a diet only approach first. The first line of treatment, if they put you on meds, will probably be Metformin, which will only help to drop your BG by a point or two. If you really think that this isn't working for you, you should go back to your Doctor and ask for more help.

Good luck

Stephen
 

carophie04

Well-Known Member
Messages
51
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Stephen & Clare - Many thanks for your replies and opinions. I saw GP this afternoon for the results of the H whatever blood test and she said my BS has been very high for at least the last 90 days and has prescribed Metformin onee of which I have just taken. It makes me cross to think that I have been complaining of extreme tiredness, excess sweating and running to the loo for months now and not one of my GPs thought to investigate Diabetes as a possible cause, in which case I could have been feeling better by now. Thanks for your views. :?
 

carophie04

Well-Known Member
Messages
51
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Looking at posts on the forum I see people stating their BG levels of 7 -8 are considered very high and they are wondering what they should do about it. Mine are constantly between 12 - 16 and yet when I saw GP on Monday she didn't seem that bothered at those readings. Has started me on Metformin 1 x 500 a day and up to now not much sign of any reduction in my levels - last reading was 14.7. Would like to know what exactly is the "norm" reading and if 7 is considered high then why is my GP not concerned at my readings?
 

RussG

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Hi Carophie04,

Everyone is different is somewhat of a mantra here. Largely yes, your readings at the moment are too high and need to come down. However they're not usually considered dangerously high for a short period of time. Diabetes is a lifelong condition, so a few months running high is not great but you won't have done any significant harm. It is prolonged high levels that usually bring on complications or extremely high levels, which can cause serious problems especially in T1s.

Also, what is high for a newly(ish) diagnosed person and what is high for someone who has had diabetes for years will be different.

Some people take a very 'zero tolerance' approach to blood sugar levels. I've read several people who say they never let their sugars spike over 6, even after food. I can't achieve that myself and don't try to. However 7-8 is not in any way, shape or form 'very high'. It may well be considered above acceptable for a fasting level or higher that people would like all the time but it's certainly not very high.

If you had an average bg of 8mmol, you would have an HbA1c of 6.9%, which most people would say is perfectly acceptable. You might decide you wanted to be lower than that, but that's a personal choice.

I would hope your doctor imparted a small sense of urgency to getting the levels down, but I have seen plenty of people say their doctors / nurses have tried to scare them with horror stories about what will happen to them. Perhaps your doc is not panicking you.

The general rule is that you want your levels to be as low as you can get them without causing further problems. The lower you get them, the less chance of complications long term BUT I think there is a real issue around sustainability and diminishing returns. Your BG readings are only part of the equation. You need a lifestyle that is acceptable and suitable for your condition. Some people have an easier run with diabetes and some people don't. Some people cope perfectly well without medication and some people can't avoid it. It's important to do what's right for you.

Your blood levels should be agreed between you and your medical team, but the standard NICE targets are:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

PS: the renal threshold for glucose is about 10mmol - that means when your levels are above 10mmol your body tries to get rid of glucose via urine and you go to the loo a lot. Your body signals that you are thirsty to replace the fluid lost and keep up the volume of urine. Once the levels come down below this, you should see a real improvement.
 

bowell

Well-Known Member
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It is prolonged high levels that usually bring on complications or extremely high levels, which can cause serious problems especially in T1s.

Trouble with T2 diabetics like myself could have been running high BG for a very long time already way before diagnoses.
Myself admitted via A&E BG 35+ Paralyzed down my lift side told must have had this for over 2years
I never went to the doctors , Just felt run down all the time

long periods of high BG risks are much the same for both T1& T2 majority of amputations are T2
so dont be fooled that keeping good BG control is unimportant because you are T2

You need to cut out all sugary foods drinks
You may also wish to cut down on the amount of bread ,pastry,rice,potatoes you eat

The info below will help you bring down your BG levels

Here is the advice that Ken and I, as Forum Monitors, usually give to newly diagnosed Diabetics. We hope that these few ideas gained through experience help you to gain control and give you some understanding of Diabetes. This forum doesn't always follow the recommended dietary advice, you have to work out what works for you as we are all different.

It's not just 'sugars' you need to avoid, diabetes is an inability to process glucose properly. Carbohydrate converts, in the body, to glucose. So it makes sense to reduce the amount of carbohydrate that you eat which includes sugars.

For more information on CARBOHYDRATE see here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20306

This is NOT a low carb diet suggestion, just a reduction in your intake of carbohydrate. You have to decide yourself how much of a reduction will keep your blood glucose levels in control.

The main carbs to avoid OR reduce are the complex or starchy carbohydrates such as bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, starchy root veg and also any flour based products. The starchy carbs all convert 100% to glucose in the body and raise the blood sugar levels significantly.

If you are on Insulin you may find that reducing the carb intake also means that you can reduce your dose of insulin. This can help you to keep weight gain down as Insulin tends to make you put on weight and eventually cause insulin resistance. This should be done slowly so as not to cause hypos.

The way to find out how different foods affect you is to do regular daily testing and keep a food diary for a couple of weeks. If you test just before eating, then two hours after eating, you will see the effect of certain foods on your blood glucose levels. Some foods, which are slow acting carbohydrates, are absorbed more slowly so you may need to test three or even four hours later to see the effect that these have on your blood glucose levels.

Buy yourself a carb counter book (you can get these on-line) and you will be able to work out how much carbs you are eating, when you test, the reading two hours after should be roughly the same as the before eating reading, if it is then that meal was fine, if it isn’t then you need to check what you have eaten and think about reducing the portion size of carbs.

When you are buying products check the total carbohydrate content, this includes the sugar content. Do not just go by the amount of sugar on the packaging as this is misleading to a diabetic.


As for a tester, try asking the nurse/doctor and explain that you want to be proactive in managing your own diabetes and therefore need to test so that you can see just how foods affect your blood sugar levels. Hopefully this will work ! Sometimes they are not keen to give Type 2’s the strips on prescription, (in the UK) but you can but try!!

For TIPS FOR STRIPS see here:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19002#p173253

If you are an Insulin user in theory you should have no problem getting test strips.

The latest 2011 NICE guidelines for Bg levels are as follows:
Fasting (waking and before meals).......between 4 - 7 mmol/l...(Type 1 & 2)
2 hrs after meals........................no more than 8.5 mmol/l.....( Type 2)

2hrs after meals......................... no more than 9 mmol/l ......(Type 1)

If you are able to keep the post meal numbers lower, so much the better.

It also helps if you can do at least 30 minutes moderate exercise a day, it can be split into 10 min sessions to start with. It doesn't have to be strenuous.

The above is just general advice and it is recommended that you discuss with your HCP before making any changes. You can also ask questions on the forum on anything that is not clear.

Finally a few QUESTIONS TO ASK AT DIABETES CLINIC.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17091



Sue/Ken.
 

bowell

Well-Known Member
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Take it slowly it will all fall into place
Promise you will get the hang of it

This small video will help you understand whats going on with T2
[youtube]DpdlJ79ACCo[/youtube]


Bob
 
Messages
11
Re: constant high. A few supplements that may help right away and work better than metformin for most people. Most diabetics are vitamin D deficient so add a minimum of 2000 IU per day (I take 6000). Biotin & chromium Picolinate taken together has great success. Try 5000 mcg of Biotin with 1000 mcg of Chromium Picolinate twice a day about a half hour before lunch or after breakfast if you prefer and again before supper. If you have high morning numbers take at least 200 mg Milk Thistle before going to bed. If you eat mainly meats and vegetables, and cut out starchy carbs like bread, cereal & pasta, you should see some lowing of your blood glucose within a few days. There are many other supplements that I could mention but these seem to have the best results for many.
 

borofergie

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,169
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Racism, Sexism, Homophobia
carophie04 said:
Looking at posts on the forum I see people stating their BG levels of 7 -8 are considered very high and they are wondering what they should do about it. Mine are constantly between 12 - 16 and yet when I saw GP on Monday she didn't seem that bothered at those readings. Has started me on Metformin 1 x 500 a day and up to now not much sign of any reduction in my levels - last reading was 14.7. Would like to know what exactly is the "norm" reading and if 7 is considered high then why is my GP not concerned at my readings?

Well, we all started where you are now. Just concentrate on getting your scores down one point at a time. I (personally) think that the best way of doing this is taking it one meal at a time, and working out how you can reduce the amount of carbohydrate you eat at each meal. Seeing your numbers drop should be motivation enough to make the cuts you need to.

Getting 7s and 8s is much less of an achievement than getting below 10 from where you are now. You'll be surprised just how well you feel once you get your BG down a bit (I was stunned by the sudden feeling of lucidity).
 
Messages
11
WhitbyJet, My Endo has agreed that vitamin D at levels under 10,000 IU's is shown to be completely safe and has no problem with any of these supplements. i wasn't aware and was just informed by a moderator that you don't discuss supplements on this forum. I was not aware of that rule but will desist although I am a believer because of the lives that I have seen changed.

i find it interesting though that you seem to be following my posts for the express purpose of maligning me and I wonder why. I have seen many people achieve success everyday using low carb and supplements either alone or along with their medications. Dr Whitaker from the Whitaker Wellness Institute in California uses these alternative therapies with all of his diabetes patients with amazing success for 20 years. There is no reason not to discuss other options with your doctor as i have done. My morning blood sugar used to be 280 (US) and my A1c nearly 9. I was on metformin for 2 months with no success even after doubling my dose.
Going low carb and using supplements has worked for me. It may work for others. Don't malign me for my own success. After all, isn't success the reason we are all on this forum?
 

Pneu

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Reversingdiabetes

I don't think anyone would argue that supplements and low / reduced carbohydrate diets are wrong just that as with anything that could potentially inter-fear with other medication / medical conditions it should always been done in conjunction with seeking advice from an HCP.

Many individuals when first diagnosed can and are scared about this condition and scared people often make ill-informed / rash decisions. When discussing possible treatment routes its always best to ensure that these people make decisions in partnership with those who can best advise them.. Of course once we become knowledgeable about our condition and the possible options available to us then we can make an informed decision on additional treatment options that we would like to purse.

Its good that you share your experience however you need to remember that you take these supplements and makes these decisions from a position of knowledge and the newly diagnosed often do not... therefore they should always seek professional advice before blindly taking something that could quite possible have an adverse effect on there health.
 
Messages
11
Perhaps I come off too assertive because of my own experience as a newly diagnosed diabetic 1 1/2 years ago. As many do, I wanted to try to control my diabetes as much as possible without drugs. I was put into a diabetes education class where I was the only one not on medication and I was told to eat aproximately 100 grams of carbs a day. All of the class was geared to taking medication and all information given just assumed that your medication would just simply cover your carbs and if you still had high blood sugar you could just get more medication.

As a newly diagnosed person, I found myself on my own because I wanted to use diet and exercise, and yes, supplements to make myself well. I think there are many out there like myself and so I am enthusiastic to share what I have learned.
 

Wendywu

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I take large doses of carbemazepine daily for my epilepsy. I see from the link re milk thistle/adverse reactions that I should not take milk thistle at all. Thank you for posting the link.

Carbemazpine places enough strain on the liver without adding in something that will increase its effects. I already have to take erythromycin at low dosage every day (because I don't have a spleen) which doesn't go that well with carbemazepine. Who knows what effect adding in something else that is contra indicated would have!
 

Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,551
Carophie04, I would urge you to listen to the "voices of reason" above. Your Doctor is taking the sensible approach. There is no "wonder pill" for diabetes and when first introguced to metformin this is done slowly.
A diagnosis is often overwhelming and frighteninng and your levels are likely to be affected by stress so
you will not get a true picture for some time. I have good reason to know that bringing bg levels down too quickly by overmedicating can be ver very dangerous.

As a very helpful doctor once said to me , we are in this for the long haul- it is important to get it right.

Many diabetics would have welcomed the opportunity to tweak their diets and to try more exercise.
You have come to he right place for help and information.

As for "reversing" well I am very pleased that you have found somethng which works for you and may work for others but advocating supplements etc from the beginning may muddy the waters for the newly diagnosed and prevent proper diagnosis of their need surely?

Later on they can make their own decisions. Supplements won't work overnight either.
 

Fallenstar

Well-Known Member
Messages
546
Reversingmydiabetes

Hi ,thanks for posting your experience,interesting. There is no right or wrong ,or one size fits all with Diabetes and if the Supp's have worked for you then that is brilliant news.

Are you on no insulin at all then? In my early diagnosis with Type 1 some 20 years ago looking back I'm sure I could have controlled with diet the supplements I use and exercise for quiet some time knowing what I know now and experiencing how my Diabetes has progressed over the years.

To me though this disease seems to get harder to control as I go on with it in years, it is an individual process for all of us. There is no way a supplement could ever substitute my Medication now but I do use them and have found a place for them in my Diabetes management over the years but in the early years I wish I had had my self learnd knowledge I have now and put off having injections for at least the honeymoon period and I'm sure looking back for a number of the early years . When I was first diagnosed my Mum spoke to an eminent Endocrinologist on holiday and he told her for me to "put off" injections for as long as I possibly could. If I had the stratergies I have now I'm sure I could have done this but hey ho, life's never that simple eh :lol:

Though I don't find Chromium Picolinate the spawn of the Devil :wink: that some papers claim . You do need to take it with caution at first in my findings, because it WORKS :shock: in lowering blood glucose so you would have to trial it like you do with everything with self adjustment with Type 1 Diabetes,probably the same for type 2 :?: but IMO there are a place for supplements and a whole host of other ways to get the best control you can ...which equates to being as healthy as you can be

I think it is great if you can stay off the injections ,meds for as long as you can in the early days, and I'm a true believer in that you can..... but we are only really offered the one medical stratergy which for us Type 1 is straight onto insulin injections, you have found an alternative route which might not be for everyone but it works for you....so well done...and try and keep it up for as long as this disease lets you because I'm afraid along the line it will probably need the traditional route in treatment but for now that is great news...and I for one would love to hear more about it :D
 
Messages
11
fallenstar, I guess that my post above makes it look as though I am type 1. I actually was trying to say Diabetes for 1.5 years. Sorry about that. I do struggle a bit with going natural. My A1c fluctuates between 6.1 and 6.3 or so in the last year and I still struggle with "dawn phenomenon" daily. The Milk Thistle did help me with that as I went from about 160 in the morning a few months ago to about 130 now. So, although it may not be for all, it is helpful for some. I am very low carb because I am so sensitive to them that even a bit of ketchup(US) on a bare burger will spike me significantly. Even lettuce, cabbage etc. affects me more than I'd like so it is a fight some days but my doc says I am controlled. I will do this as long as I can and well, the future is the future. Time will tell what happens.