DVLA considering revoking licences of insulin users

[moonstone]

Has anyone else read the news article today on this website about the DVLA considering revoking our licences in October - if we have just ONE hypo in a 12-month period???? Not even whilst driving - they actually mean ONE hypo, full-stop. Have I read this wrong?? :shock: :evil: :cry:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2011...uld-be-banned-by-eu-rule-change-99559461.html

 

[moonstone]

Goodness me I've just seen this http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/newsart...715/diabetics-will-lose-driving-licences-if-t

This article casts a different light on it. This article specifies more than one hypo, and specifies it must be a "severe" hypo, requiring the assistance of someone else. (But this is what they already ask - well, they certainly ask that of me in the forms I complete for them.) The two articles state different things from what I can see. Does anyone know any more about this? I'm confused. :?

 

[phoenix]

I posted the proposals as they were during the consultation here:
They may be slightly different when they are put before parliament in Oct but in any case.they really only had to change the interpretation of the original regulations slightly
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23508

 

[moonstone]

Hi Phoenix, thanks for the link, I ended up scouting around and found out more but the article published on this website just says "hypo". Everything else talks about "disabling hypos", which are very specific things. Looks like the DUK article fell a bit short, unless things have changed since consultation.

 

[Gazhay]

As far as I have read, no-one knows the exact situation until it is brought before Parliament shortly after their recess. The DVLA is in the process of "updating" their forms for a change, so we know something is coming.

At the end of the day, if they are heading towards an almost blanket ban, (Even at european level) they better have the stats to back it up, but if it is proven that T1s are more dangerous, then even as a T1, I would have to agree with the more stringent checking.

We are in the unfortunate position that we are drug users and a hypo is a drug overdose. As Europe is determined to bring drug driving into line with drunk driving, I can only see us in for more like this over the coming years. Our saving grace just now seems to be that the EU didn't do a diabetic accident study, and has pretty much admitted any changes are not based on scientific output.

Of course, if Insurance companies were made to publish their stats we may not have a problem. After all, Insurance companies are good at finding ways to not cover you, or charge you extra, and they do not do so for T1 Diabetics, so there cannot be any real evidence to back up a move to full or near full bans. (Yes, I understand the insurance companies might be prevented by disability law in this regard, but if they had stats suggesting T1s were more dangerous, they would have presented it by now)

 

[Beatle]

just over a year ago I had a warning of this happening when my licence was reduced to a one year span because I answered the form honestly when renewing as I had a hypo needing assistance on one occasion immediately following my first hydrotherapy session I wasn't even out of the pool! I have been a type1 and been driving for over thirty years without causing an accident relating to the condition but I now fear I will lose my licence and my limited independence which driving allows me. I am waiting with bated breadth for my licence to be returned renewed so I can drive again and get out of the house - but I'm not very hopeful! Hope this doesn't depress everyone too too much I will post again when I know the outcome!

 

[iHs]

Hi

By accident I was listening to Radio 4 - You and Yours programme today and it featured someone from the DVLA and DUK talking about this new EU proposal. Must admit that I'm not happy with any of it as it implies that insulin users that have some mild hypos at home are in danger of having the same mild hypos behind the wheel of a car. There was no mention of diabetics testing their bg levels before they drove so that they could be safe........ everything seemed to hang on hypo awareness. Anyone with 2 grains upstairs will surely know that they need to get their bg levels up above 6mmol before they drive and make sure that they always have some sort of sweets or glucose tabs within easy reach on their dashboards so that they can maintain their bg level and not have to rely soley on their awareness.

 

[moonstone]

Thanks for the replies - looks like it's just watching and waiting then. It also seems to have changed from the consultation period - so maybe the original article was closer to the truth.... yikes. It's not like I even still have a car as it's pointless in London but I still want the option to drive!

 

[phoenix]

Moonstone, it's worth listenins to the programme (its on the You and yours website at about 20 min in )
This is my understanding of what the DVLA spokeswoman said, the directive concerns recurrent severe hypos requiring assistance , 'requiring' means needing assistance, not merely being given it recurrent means more than once in a year. Therefore 2 such hypos would entail the loss of a licence. This is not the permanent loss of a licence. If one had a severe hypo in Jan and then again in June and no more, then the following Jan there would then only be one episode so the person could get their licence back.
Diabetes UK was particularly concerned that night-time hypos were included and that this apparently hasn't been the case in the past. They are checking up to see how this part of the directive is being implemented elsewhere in Europe .

 

[Diane fluteplayer]

Hi everyone. I heard the report on 'You and Yours' today and was appalled. I phoned Diabetes UK and they suggested I look at info on their website but I couldn't find anything apart from the forum! I drive, and cannot do my job without driving. I also live in a village with a fast disappearing bus service. I am a folk dance musician and even if there were buses after 5pm (lol!) I couldn't carry the equipment I need. I agree we need to be safe but what they are proposing is ridiculous - and discriminatory. No-one bans non-diabetic drivers who are sometimes sleepy (when not driving) or feel ill.... My biggest worry is that whatever they pass will be interpreted by some ignorant pen-pusher who knows nothing about diabetes and reduce many of us to unemployment and virtual house arrest.

Several people mentioned insurance statistics; these would undoubtedly help our case but since when did this government look at evidence before following their ill-researched pet theories? How do they define"hypo"? "disabling"? And why on earth are they threatening to include hypos during sleep, which are completely irrelevant?

Worst of all, the threatened legislation will discourage people from regular testing and recording results. I have had much better control since doing a dafne course and do not want to go back to guesswork to avoid risk of a low blood sugar going on record. I do not have "disabling" hypos and have very early warning signs. But if my driving licence is threatened I will be keeping my blood sugars much higher and risking complications later on in order to have a life in the meantime.

I was told that there is an online petition. Does anyone know where it can be found?

Many thanks, and sorry for rant. I am feeling really desperate.

 

[goslow]

Hi everyone,
I have been looking up some info on this and the first EU doc I can find is 'Diabetes and Driving in Europe'. A report of the Second European Working Group on Diabetes and Driving... This is based on work from 2004 to 2006.

The only EU Directive I can find is Commission Directive 2009/112/EC of 25 Aug 2009 so it seems they dont move too fast.

The restrictions they propose are on "...recurrent severe hypoglycaemia or/and impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia..."

So it looks like DVLA is taking a very very very risk free stance. But then it's not their nice soft jobs on the line. Sign the e-petition and ring up your MP - if you can find one available!

Goslow

 

[sugar2]

Hi everyone. I heard the report on 'You and Yours' today and was appalled. I phoned Diabetes UK and they suggested I look at info on their website but I couldn't find anything apart from the forum! .

HI Diane, confusingly...this website is Diabetes .CO. uk and fantastic as it is, I think the web site you wanted was that of Diabetes UK the charity

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/?gclid=COSrp ... KgodqhVxwg

 

[Poodlelady]

I am appalled by the DVLA and the Government new laws to come in about T1 or T2 on insulin. Why not ban all those drug addicts from driving? They can't do that as it would be against their human rights!! So is it not against our human rights as diabetics to be allowed to drive? If the DVLA and this Government come up with some cockeyed excuse or plan to ban diabetics on insulin to drive they had better have all the facts and figures to back up their research or there will be a fight on my part. I am really cross about this. There are 90 something old people who should not be on the road, yet, there they are and they do cause accidents, the teens that speed, yet, they are not targeted. Why us then?

 

[Diane fluteplayer]

Hi Poodlelady,

Thanks for your post. It is such a relief to see that someone else feels the way I do!

Not sure where things are at the moment. I have signed the petition and got some of my work colleagues to do same.

Keep up the good work!

Diane

 

[Beatle]

Hi all

A quick update on my licence it finally arrived almost two months late and is valid for just another year!!!

So I've got all this stress again next year - really good for control of Type 1

So don't give up hope - maybe it'll get easier to cope with year on year We wish!!!

Regards to all Beatle

 

[Honeypie1]

To anyone wanting to sign the online petition, here is the link.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/14125

I've just signed it myself but noticed there are only 1873 people who have, which I think is shocking.
Come on every one of us diabetics out there who care about our driving licences, sign the petition.

 

[supergob]

12 years ago I received a letter from the DVLA revoking my HGV 1, Track and PSV Licence along with my car licence. I had no warning and the only explanation was that my Diabetic Clinic had submitted a report. For ten years I appealed and each time it was refused, Two years ago when I was made aware of the new dictate for diabetic drivers I first commissioned an independent private report and then booked an advanced driving test and passed. Swansea then retired to consider their verdict, now two years after retiring I was informed that I had to surrender all my professional licence's which would be replaced by a three year licence. I was saddened by the loss of my hard earned licence's and angered by the fact that I would have to replace them with a three year one. But I accept the reason why and concur that it was a correct decision, it certainly has made me more aware of the early signs of a hypo, after all there is no bigger reminder than having to rely upon taxis

 

[ReginaldD]

If they banned anyone who has a hypo they may as well just go ahead and ban all type 1's.

 

[bethan90]

Just a quick reply. I dO not agree with the statement about drugs and driving. What about people on BP medication? That is also a drug. What about people on antibiotics? People taking paracetamol? They are all drugs! Having a hypo isn't always due to an insulin "overdose" a lot of different factors can effect a blood sugar rising/dipping.
And as someone said, if they are going down that route what about drug addicts? Surely they should have their license revoked!

 

[CarbsRok]

Just a quick reply. I dO not agree with the statement about drugs and driving. What about people on BP medication? That is also a drug. What about people on antibiotics? People taking paracetamol? They are all drugs! Having a hypo isn't always due to an insulin "overdose" a lot of different factors can effect a blood sugar rising/dipping.
And as someone said, if they are going down that route what about drug addicts? Surely they should have their license revoked!

Paracetomal doesn't cause hypo's Certain diabetes meds including insulin do cause hypos, for this simple reason we are expected to look after our diabetes and keep other road users safe. Unfortunately things do go wrong and the end result is people are taken off the road until safe to drive again.

Drug users are also taken off the road. They are charged with driving whilst under the influence of drink or drugs.

In OP's case it looks as if he has ticked the wrong box. Hence his lost licence. I also suspect that once those forms are sent back they are shoved through a scanner and end result is an automatic ban printed out by the computer.