What is considered an ABNORMALLY HIGH fasting glucose level?

[angustia]

Just want to verify. What reading is "abnormally high" after fasting?

An article is scaring me - it says 5.6 mmol and above is abnormally high.

Is that true?

 

[Mr_Pot]

Just want to verify. What reading is "abnormally high" after fasting?

An article is scaring me - it says 5.6 mmol and above is abnormally high.

Is that true?

What article? It might be a bit high for a non diabetic, so if that is not "normal" it must by definition be "abnormal" it doesn't mean very high.

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi @angustia,

In many countries, prediabetes is diagnosed at fasting levels above 5.6 mmol/l. So, this is probably where this number is from.

This being said, I believe that being somewhat above 5.6 mmol/l in the morning is probably not harmful if you otherwise have stable blood sugars and don't experience huge spikes after meals. Also note that fasting blood sugars tend to be the last to come down after changing your way of life.

You might also want to have a look at Jenny Ruhl's website https://www.bloodsugar101.com/complications for a discussion on the effects of spikes rather than somewhat higher fasting levels on diabetes-related complications. This might somewhat help put your mind at ease.

Edited for grammar.

 

[Erin]

Just want to verify. What reading is "abnormally high" after fasting?

An article is scaring me - it says 5.6 mmol and above is abnormally high.

Is that true?

For some reason anything below 6.0 gives me chest pains. I have been diabetic for 11 yrs. and in the beginning I could tolerate "hypos" but now a "hypo" is very painful in my heart at 6.0 or 5's. I don't understand it and if it is cardiac or common to all here.

 

[Member496333]

Paradoxically, some carnivores and ultra low-carbers run fasting sugars in the ~5.5mmol/L range, but they will stay virtually flatlined at that level all day, every day. Personally I wouldn't want to wake up to more than ~5, but I'd rather be at ~5.5 24/7 than wake up to ~4 and have excursions to ~8 after meals. Stability is King.

 

[angustia]

For some reason anything below 6.0 gives me chest pains. I have been diabetic for 11 yrs. and in the beginning I could tolerate "hypos" but now a "hypo" is very painful in my heart at 6.0 or 5's. I don't understand it and if it is cardiac or common to all here.

Hi Erin,

The article given above by Ziggy is very helpful. I've just added it to my favorites. You might want to have a look at it.

https://www.bloodsugar101.com/a1c-and-heart-disease

 

[angustia]

Hi @angustia,

In many countries, prediabetes is diagnosed at fasting levels above 5.6 mmol/l. So, this is probably where this number is from.

This being said, I believe that being somewhat above 5.6 mmol/l in the morning is probably not harmful if you otherwise have stable blood sugars and don't experience huge spikes after meals. Also note that fasting blood sugars tend to be the last to come down after changing your way of life.

You might also want to have a look at Jenny Ruhl's website https://www.bloodsugar101.com/complications for a discussion on the effects of spikes rather than somewhat higher fasting levels on diabetes-related complications. This might somewhat help put your mind at ease.

Edited for grammar.

Thanks for that site, Ziggy.

 

[Mike Sixx]

For people with normal insulin production it should be < 6 (5.5). That too varies from person to person and other things. <7.2 is widely considered normal in sense that it is non-diabetic range. But once you have diabetes and your body does not produce insulin there is no more "normal". Diabetes means you blood sugar level is abnormal, even when the value is in range of non-diabetes people. Depending on who you ask T2 patients fasting value shoul be 5 or 6. And it varies on person and their situaton. Your doctor *should* know that value you should aim for. Anything over 7 is in most cases too high. Occationally going to this value should not be that alarming. Anything above that is progressively more dangerous. 15 is often considered quite alarming value. As a rule of thumb you should never, ever let your blood glucose level go to double digits. Even right after eating. And as mentioned before stability is most important. Huge rapid changes in blood sugal levels are most dangerous.

 

[bulkbiker]

your body does not produce insulin

Sorry? did you mean T1 or?

 

[Brunneria]

For people with normal insulin production it should be < 6 (5.5). That too varies from person to person and other things. <7.2 is widely considered normal in sense that it is non-diabetic range. But once you have diabetes and your body does not produce insulin there is no more "normal". Diabetes means you blood sugar level is abnormal, even when the value is in range of non-diabetes people. Depending on who you ask T2 patients fasting value shoul be 5 or 6. And it varies on person and their situaton. Your doctor *should* know that value you should aim for. Anything over 7 is in most cases too high. Occationally going to this value should not be that alarming. Anything above that is progressively more dangerous. 15 is often considered quite alarming value. As a rule of thumb you should never, ever let your blood glucose level go to double digits. Even right after eating. And as mentioned before stability is most important. Huge rapid changes in blood sugal levels are most dangerous.

Could you let us know your sources for this information?

Different parts of the world have different standard figures that they use.
Giving sources is particularly important if you are going to state that figures above a certain level are 'alarming', or give out 'rules of thumb'.

I would also suggest that you specify which country's figures you are using, the units, and which type of diabetes you are talking about.

Sorry if these seems pedantic to you, but I am sure you can appreciate that if someone reading this experiences any of the numbers you mention, they want to be able to get facts, not opinion, in order to set their mind at rest.

 

[poemagraphic]

Paradoxically, some carnivores and ultra low-carbers run fasting sugars in the ~5.5mmol/L range, but they will stay virtually flatlined at that level all day, every day. Personally I wouldn't want to wake up to more than ~5, but I'd rather be at ~5.5 24/7 than wake up to ~4 and have excursions to ~8 after meals. Stability is King.

Jim I thank you once again, for writing this. I am in, exactly this position, you state above.

I woke this morning to 5.1mmol/L. I have stayed around that, from 06:30 this morning. I just tested at 12hrs later... It is still the same at 5.1
It was 5.2 at 13:00. which was 2hrs after I had 4 gherkins, individually wrapped/rolled in thinly sliced beef, spread with horseradish sauce, and 3 thin pieces of chorizo spread very thinly with cream cheese wrapped around a small piece of cheddar & chilli cheese. for my mid-morning snack.

 

[poemagraphic]

Jim I thank you once again, for writing this. I am in, exactly this position, you state above.

I woke this morning to 5.1mmol/L. I have stayed around that, from 06:30 this morning. I just tested at 12hrs later... It is still the same at 5.1
It was 5.2 at 13:00. which was 2hrs after I had 4 gherkins, individually wrapped/rolled in thinly sliced beef, spread with horseradish sauce, and 3 thin pieces of chorizo spread very thinly with cream cheese wrapped around a small piece of cheddar & chilli cheese. for my mid-morning snack.

I always feel that I should be lower in the mornings, sometimes I am below 5 and that is what I aim for.
I am eating around 25-30 carbs a day.

 

[LooperCat]

Diabetes means you blood sugar level is abnormal, even when the value is in range of non-diabetes people.

I disagree. If you can achieve non-diabetic levels by whatever methods you use to manage your own diabetes, then you have normal BG levels.

 

[Mike Sixx]

Just want to verify. What reading is "abnormally high" after fasting?

An article is scaring me - it says 5.6 mmol and above is abnormally high.

Is that true?

That is on

Could you let us know your sources for this information?

Different parts of the world have different standard figures that they use.
Giving sources is particularly important if you are going to state that figures above a certain level are 'alarming', or give out 'rules of thumb'.

I would also suggest that you specify which country's figures you are using, the units, and which type of diabetes you are talking about.

Sorry if these seems pedantic to you, but I am sure you can appreciate that if someone reading this experiences any of the numbers you mention, they want to be able to get facts, not opinion, in order to set their mind at rest.

Yes, I agree it is good to be accurate. And to be critical of sources.

My source are the Diabetes nurse and couple doctors. Also national diabetes association of Finland. I assume we are talking about T2 as this forum is called "Type 2 diabetes". None of the diabetes professional have said to me 5.6 mmol would be in no way bad. On my last visit my doctor actually told me that the 5.0 I was aiming for was too low and I would not be gaining any benefits from it. And it even could be counter productive IF (note: it IF here!) this goal would cause my BG levels swing a lot. And Doctor told me that I should let my morning reading raise to 6-7 mmol range so there would be less of a swing to my after meal values of 8-9. In Finland non-diabetic fasting Blood Glucose value range is 3.9-7.2. As is in my my Bauer Contour BG meter software and it's manual. After eating values both say should be under 10 and that 8.2 is upper limit of non diabetic after eating. So BG should never go to double figures. My insulin medication (Lantus) manual says to contact doctor immediately if fasting BG is over 15. So this is from 3-5 official sources. Also empiric knowledge as my BG was 15,3 mmol when I was diagnosed and I having symptoms of nephropathy only few months after being diagnosed. So the one thing I can tell with at absolute ***** certainty that: over 15 mmol is bad.
And they also told be that only thing worse then BG over 15 is crashing that value to 7 in two weeks and that might have caused more nerve damage than having that value for years. That is good to know, only thing better would have been told that BEFORE I did it. Instead of being told by the GP that diagnosed me that we need to get your sugar levels down fast. I mention this to illustrate that there is information and "information" and that Doctors not always, and it seem quite often, are not have full knowledge of this disease.

Do you have some information that contradicts the values I mentioned ?

 

[Mr_Pot]

That is on

My source are the Diabetes nurse and couple doctors. Also national diabetes association of Finland. I assume we are talking about T2 as this forum is called "Type 2 diabetes". It is good to be accurate. None of the diabetes professional have said to me 5.6 mmol would be in no way bad. On my last visit my doctor actually told me that the 5.0 I was aiming for was too low and I should let my morning reading raise to 6-7 mmol range. In Finland non-diabetic fasting Blood Glucose value range is 3.9-7.2. As is in my my Bauer Contour BG meter software and it's manual. After eating values both say should be under 10 and that 8.2 is upper limit of non diabetic after eating. So BG should never go to double figures. My insulin medication (Lantus) manual says to contact doctor immediately if fasting BG is over 15. So this is from 3-5 official sources. Also empiric knowledge as my BG was 15,3 mmol when I was diagnosed and I having symptoms of nephropathy only few months after being diagnosed. So I can tell with at absolute ***** certainty that >15 mmol is bad.

That is on

My source are the Diabetes nurse and couple doctors. Also national diabetes association of Finland. I assume we are talking about T2 as this forum is called "Type 2 diabetes". It is good to be accurate. None of the diabetes professional have said to me 5.6 mmol would be in no way bad. On my last visit my doctor actually told me that the 5.0 I was aiming for was too low and I should let my morning reading raise to 6-7 mmol range. In Finland non-diabetic fasting Blood Glucose value range is 3.9-7.2. As is in my my Bauer Contour BG meter software and it's manual. After eating values both say should be under 10 and that 8.2 is upper limit of non diabetic after eating. So BG should never go to double figures. My insulin medication (Lantus) manual says to contact doctor immediately if fasting BG is over 15. So this is from 3-5 official sources. Also empiric knowledge as my BG was 15,3 mmol when I was diagnosed and I having symptoms of nephropathy only few months after being diagnosed. So I can tell with at absolute ***** certainty that >15 mmol is bad.

The OP is diet controlled, the rules are different for those on Insulin as doctors would rather you have a slightly higher HbA1c rather than risk hypos.

 

[Brunneria]

That is on

My source are the Diabetes nurse and couple doctors. Also national diabetes association of Finland. I assume we are talking about T2 as this forum is called "Type 2 diabetes". It is good to be accurate. None of the diabetes professional have said to me 5.6 mmol would be in no way bad. On my last visit my doctor actually told me that the 5.0 I was aiming for was too low and I should let my morning reading raise to 6-7 mmol range. In Finland non-diabetic fasting Blood Glucose value range is 3.9-7.2. As is in my my Bauer Contour BG meter software and it's manual. After eating values both say should be under 10 and that 8.2 is upper limit of non diabetic after eating. So BG should never go to double figures. My insulin medication (Lantus) manual says to contact doctor immediately if fasting BG is over 15. So this is from 3-5 official sources. Also empiric knowledge as my BG was 15,3 mmol when I was diagnosed and I having symptoms of nephropathy only few months after being diagnosed. So I can tell with at absolute ***** certainty that >15 mmol is bad.

Thank you. Always good to know the sources of information.

In contrast to the advice given to you by your medical team, my own nurse told me a very different set of numbers, and I understand that different patients are given different blood glucose targets, depending on their medication. Since you are on Lantus, and I am not, our reaction to 15mmol/l readings will be very different.

For clarity, I am of the opinion that T2s benefit from steady blood glucose at ‘normal’ levels. However there is significant debate as to what ‘normal’ is. And medication is an important factor in both targets and control.

You may find the www.bloodsugar101.com website an interesting read for information on T2.

You may also want to compare the Finnish guidelines for blood glucose levels with those for the UK (for different types of diabetes)
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html
And the US, which uses different units.
https://www.thediabetescouncil.com/what-are-blood-sugar-target-ranges/
https://www.news-medical.net/health/Blood-Sugar-Normal-Values.aspx

So why am I giving you all these links?
I am trying to show you that diabetes is a very variable thing. Just as your diabetes (and its treatment) will change in the months and years to come, so will everyone else’s. Every member here is unique, and will be given different medical advice, targets and information, depending on their personal circumstances. For some, 15mmol/l is the lowest number they see in a day. For others, 15mmol/l is an indication of whether they exercise or not. Some have never seen 15mmol/l in their time with diabetes. There are very few absolutes.

sorry for the derailment @angustia
Returning to your query in your opening post, i suspect that the 5.6 mentioned in your article is the American cut off for pre-diabetes
(See page 3 of this link)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4360422/
Whether it is 5.6 mmol/l or 5.6% makes quite a big difference.

edited for typo on units

 

[Mr_Pot]

But is it 5.6 mmol/mol

mmol/L surely?

 

[Brunneria]

mmol/L surely?

yes, thanks. Just spotted that myself and you posted too.
Have corrected the typo.

 

[Mike Sixx]

Sorry? did you mean T1 or?

I just meant "5.6 mmol and above is abnormally high." is just a one fancy way of saying "diabetic" (or "pre-diabetic" if you want to split hairs).

Since there are no context for those words (and maybe even not in correct order) we can keep questing forever what that could mean.
It is vague enough that it can mean so many other things too, but I was just applying Occam's Razor.

 

[bulkbiker]

I just meant "5.6 mmol and above is abnormally high." is just a one fancy way of saying "diabetic" (or "pre-diabetic" if you want to split hairs).

Since there are no context for those words (and maybe even not in correct order) we can keep questing forever what that could mean.
It is vague enough that it can mean so many other things too, but I was just applying Occam's Razor.

No you said "once you have diabetes your body does not produce insulin" which is correct in the case of T1 (or at least very little is produced).
However for the vast majority of T2' s (in fact I would say all "real" T2's) they are overproducers of insulin so your statement is simply incorrect.
So no I was not talking about the level of blood glucose but the part of your post I quoted.