Intro, I'm just beginning

[JayAmerican]

Hi there from the USA, 47 yo man here. I'm new to all this and never thought I'd find myself posting on a diabetes forum.

The diagnosis, which was initially about 3 weeks ago, came as a bit of a surprise. I'm not overweight and (at least thought) I didn't eat garbage and although I'm not a gym visitor I do stay active working around the house. Out of a scale of 1-10 of 1 being sedentary 10 being Arnold Schwarzenegger, I would say I'm a 3 and sometimes 4. My blood pressure and all kinds of other stats have always been excellent, a few years ago I even became concerned about my heart for some reason and I got put through the paces to have the doctors only tell me that my heart and vascular system were excellent. I've always had docs telling me that I my triglycerides were high but that was it. I don't smoke, rarely drink. Stopped eating fried food and heavy fats ages ago.

I had not had a checkup in a few years and went in only because I had what I thought was some form of muscle pull that turned out to be nothing. I didn't think to prep (no fasting) and when my finger was pricked to do a blood check it came up over 300. The nurse didn't say anything but when the doctor came in he started casually referring to me as a diabetic - as if I already knew (this was a new doctor to me). As I explained to him that I didn't understand what he was referring to, he pointed out my blood sugar check and I told him maybe it was high because I had just eaten lunch and a huge juice drink. He said even if so, the number was hugely high and someone who is not diabetic would not shoot up like that.

Off a single finger prick, Type 2 diabetes.

So he asked me to come in the next week after proper prep (fasting). I left the office thinking (like I do about most challenges) that it is just a problem to solve. So I decided to eat "healthy" and I'll prove that the number was abnormally high. The problem was that at this point I lacked any education about diabetes. It was just something "some indirect family members" have had. So I stopped all sugars, sodas, juices, stopped bread and... that was it. I was still eating rice, pasta, tomato sauce (all healthy, stuff, right?). My fasting test said otherwise, it came in as 259 and they took vials of blood for me for full tests that I would go in a week later to go over with the doctor. At this point I still had no idea about anything, so I left realizing that I can't just deal with this on guesses, I must educate myself.

Google, YouTube, studies, news articles. I learned quickly some things I thought were healthy were (at least for a Type 2 diabetic) garbage. I also started learning things about fasting levels vs post-meal, sleep, stress, you name it. Most news articles are garbage and will usually just be fluff pieces with no useful info written by somebody with no medical background. Came across kooky diets, but have managed to whittle down to information that is science-based, medically sound and includes feedback from many people that show clear reversal. Atkins was on the radar but it seemed obvious that the short-term positive effect has on someone's body gets taken over by the bad side later (namely heart disease and clogged arteries. The most consistent guidance I found was a low-carb diet (also known as a keto diet) and immediately I have been following that as much as possible. I do know that one size does not fit all so I will continue my research to fine-tune.

So literally overnight and without looking back, I completely changed what I've been putting into my body. No more rice, pasta, learning red pasta sauce is swimming in sugar was a surprise (I never thought to pay attention before), and started going to the supermarket more for fresh stuff, particularly the green veggies. Anything in the sweets family now took on the appearance of poison to me. I'm not someone who especially loves sweats but I did have a weakness for donuts and cookies. Those are out the window now. Canned processed food, practically all of that is a no-touch zone for me now although I will still read labels on some items that might still offer safe nutritional value. I will start to cut even those out as I learn to replace them with better alternatives. I am also learning I have to wash dishes a lot more frequently now or I quickly run out of things to cook in!

I have stuck with this and when I went back to get my test results they were not a surprise, I got a 9.8 on the A1C (equivalent to 212 average over 2-4 months) and (no surprise) high triglycerides. All other tests were normal & within range. A little low on vitamin D (which has occasionally been the case in blood tests over the years). The fasting blood sugar test came in at 187. I had been testing myself for the 10 days prior on my new food choices and have seen it go up & down. It's always a bit higher in the morning before eating (and I've since learned why) and also seems high if I test around a time I am stressed (from work or other pressures) and lower during times I am relaxed or finished doing something I love (like a hobby) for 2-3 hours - those times it seems to get to the 150-160 range. This tells me I am definitely influenced by cortisol levels, stress hormones just make it worse for me. For the most part, I am gradually doing my part to bring this crud down.

The doctor prescribed Metformin which I've yet to fill the prescription on, as I want to do my best over the next 2-3 weeks to see if I can first bring myself down to more normal levels purely with lifestyle change. The doctor wasn't a believer and was adamant I must get on the meds right away. Yet he never asked me about my current diet, what I should be eating, nor provided me any guidance. I'm going to see an endocrinologist soon to get an additional test to rule out Type 1 (there's a small chance of that since I am not overweight & a family history) as well as getting some additional sound medical advice from an expert.

The doctor also prescribed something for the triglyceride levels but I think the blood sugar is influencing that and I think a low-carb diet has a good chance of addressing that as well. Right now my mind is on "NO carb" but it is hugely unrealistic until I am fully educated and fully changed my lifestyle. I also need to introduce actual dedicated exercise into the equation. Eating low carbs will reduce levels but exercise is needed to help more of it move out or get forced to be used and help reverse the insulin sensitivity that it seems my body has built up.

That's it for now. I will probably have questions and will be reading others' experiences, share my progress.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi there from the USA, 47 yo man here. I'm new to all this and never thought I'd find myself posting on a diabetes forum.

The diagnosis, which was initially about 3 weeks ago, came as a bit of a surprise. I'm not overweight and (at least thought) I didn't eat garbage and although I'm not a gym visitor I do stay active working around the house. Out of a scale of 1-10 of 1 being sedentary 10 being Arnold Schwarzenegger, I would say I'm a 3 and sometimes 4. My blood pressure and all kinds of other stats have always been excellent, a few years ago I even became concerned about my heart for some reason and I got put through the paces to have the doctors only tell me that my heart and vascular system were excellent. I've always had docs telling me that I my triglycerides were high but that was it. I don't smoke, rarely drink. Stopped eating fried food and heavy fats ages ago.

I had not had a checkup in a few years and went in only because I had what I thought was some form of muscle pull that turned out to be nothing. I didn't think to prep (no fasting) and when my finger was pricked to do a blood check it came up over 300. The nurse didn't say anything but when the doctor came in he started casually referring to me as a diabetic - as if I already knew (this was a new doctor to me). As I explained to him that I didn't understand what he was referring to, he pointed out my blood sugar check and I told him maybe it was high because I had just eaten lunch and a huge juice drink. He said even if so, the number was hugely high and someone who is not diabetic would not shoot up like that.

Off a single finger prick, Type 2 diabetes.

So he asked me to come in the next week after proper prep (fasting). I left the office thinking (like I do about most challenges) that it is just a problem to solve. So I decided to eat "healthy" and I'll prove that the number was abnormally high. The problem was that at this point I lacked any education about diabetes. It was just something "some indirect family members" have had. So I stopped all sugars, sodas, juices, stopped bread and... that was it. I was still eating rice, pasta, tomato sauce (all healthy, stuff, right?). My fasting test said otherwise, it came in as 259 and they took vials of blood for me for full tests that I would go in a week later to go over with the doctor. At this point I still had no idea about anything, so I left realizing that I can't just deal with this on guesses, I must educate myself.

Google, YouTube, studies, news articles. I learned quickly some things I thought were healthy were (at least for a Type 2 diabetic) garbage. I also started learning things about fasting levels vs post-meal, sleep, stress, you name it. Most news articles are garbage and will usually just be fluff pieces with no useful info written by somebody with no medical background. Came across kooky diets, but have managed to whittle down to information that is science-based, medically sound and includes feedback from many people that show clear reversal. Atkins was on the radar but it seemed obvious that the short-term positive effect has on someone's body gets taken over by the bad side later (namely heart disease and clogged arteries. The most consistent guidance I found was a low-carb diet (also known as a keto diet) and immediately I have been following that as much as possible. I do know that one size does not fit all so I will continue my research to fine-tune.

So literally overnight and without looking back, I completely changed what I've been putting into my body. No more rice, pasta, learning red pasta sauce is swimming in sugar was a surprise (I never thought to pay attention before), and started going to the supermarket more for fresh stuff, particularly the green veggies. Anything in the sweets family now took on the appearance of poison to me. I'm not someone who especially loves sweats but I did have a weakness for donuts and cookies. Those are out the window now. Canned processed food, practically all of that is a no-touch zone for me now although I will still read labels on some items that might still offer safe nutritional value. I will start to cut even those out as I learn to replace them with better alternatives. I am also learning I have to wash dishes a lot more frequently now or I quickly run out of things to cook in!

I have stuck with this and when I went back to get my test results they were not a surprise, I got a 9.8 on the A1C (equivalent to 212 average over 2-4 months) and (no surprise) high triglycerides. All other tests were normal & within range. A little low on vitamin D (which has occasionally been the case in blood tests over the years). The fasting blood sugar test came in at 187. I had been testing myself for the 10 days prior on my new food choices and have seen it go up & down. It's always a bit higher in the morning before eating (and I've since learned why) and also seems high if I test around a time I am stressed (from work or other pressures) and lower during times I am relaxed or finished doing something I love (like a hobby) for 2-3 hours - those times it seems to get to the 150-160 range. This tells me I am definitely influenced by cortisol levels, stress hormones just make it worse for me. For the most part, I am gradually doing my part to bring this crud down.

The doctor prescribed Metformin which I've yet to fill the prescription on, as I want to do my best over the next 2-3 weeks to see if I can first bring myself down to more normal levels purely with lifestyle change. The doctor wasn't a believer and was adamant I must get on the meds right away. Yet he never asked me about my current diet, what I should be eating, nor provided me any guidance. I'm going to see an endocrinologist soon to get an additional test to rule out Type 1 (there's a small chance of that since I am not overweight & a family history) as well as getting some additional sound medical advice from an expert.

The doctor also prescribed something for the triglyceride levels but I think the blood sugar is influencing that and I think a low-carb diet has a good chance of addressing that as well. Right now my mind is on "NO carb" but it is hugely unrealistic until I am fully educated and fully changed my lifestyle. I also need to introduce actual dedicated exercise into the equation. Eating low carbs will reduce levels but exercise is needed to help more of it move out or get forced to be used and help reverse the insulin sensitivity that it seems my body has built up.

That's it for now. I will probably have questions and will be reading others' experiences, share my progress.

Hi Jay,

You're off to an excellent start, no thanks to your doc by the sound of it, though. Metformin only reduces the amount of glucose your liver dumps into your system by about 75%, so it doesn't do much of anything about what you eat, so.... Odds are your diet'll have a much bigger impact on your bloodsugars than metformin would. And statins (for cholesterol) drive up bloodsugars quite often, so.... Yeah. We can't advise on medication, but if you went straight for keto, I think you'll see results soon enough, especially if you have your own meter. 10% of T2's never had a weight problem, so it is a possible outcome, but having a C-peptide and a GAD test done doesn't sound like a bad idea. Still... My compliments on taking this particular bull by the horns.
Jo

 

[Mike d]

In fact it is YOU that could educate others @JayAmerican ... at least you've worked out what to and what not to eat all on your lonesome. Respect !!

 

[Brunneria]

Well done for hitting the ground running.
And you are absolutely right to take control of this yourself. Relying on tablets and vague standard medical ideas won't give you half the control, and future health, that your current attitude will achieve.

Oh, and welcome!

 

[EllieM]

but having a C-peptide and a GAD test done doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Hopefully @JayAmerican won't have T1/LADA (or MODY which is a weird form that sometimes happens for people with a family history of diabetes) but if he does then it's best to find out as soon as possible (unlike the many folk in the UK who get diagnosed as T2 and only get rediagnosed as T1 a couple of years later).

So, to @JayAmerican. There's a good chance that going low carb will dramatically reduce your levels, hopefully down to normal. Be aware that if your levels go high and stay high and your issues are lack of insulin (ie T1) rather than too much insulin because of insulin resistance (T2), you could get diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), This needs treating immediately (go to the hospital) as it requires insulin.

But it's likely that even if you are T1 the reduction of carbs in your diet will keep you going until you get a definite diagnosis, as you'd still be producing some insulin, just not enough.

Good luck

 

[Rachox]

You’ve made a brilliant start Jay, keep up the good work and you’ll see normal numbers very soon!

 

[JayAmerican]

Thanks, I agree that although the doctor is well-intentioned, after researching on my own I feel like there is a lot of new information out there that needs to make it into patient care.

I will be treating this like I do everything I eventually master: research, study, observe, persist and eventually conquer.

One particular thing I've noticed is that when I am stressed or agitated and have not eaten for 3-4 hours, the sugar levels show very high (220+) but if the opposite is the case, like I am doing woodworking in the garage and mentally relaxed, I test in the 150-160 range even after the same "fasting" period. This has been consistent enough times to tell me my cortisol levels have a huge impact on unnecessary glucose being pumped into me by my liver. A few other things I have noticed but not yet consistent enough for me to conclude something reliable.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks, I agree that although the doctor is well-intentioned, after researching on my own I feel like there is a lot of new information out there that needs to make it into patient care.

I will be treating this like I do everything I eventually master: research, study, observe, persist and eventually conquer.

One particular thing I've noticed is that when I am stressed or agitated and have not eaten for 3-4 hours, the sugar levels show very high (220+) but if the opposite is the case, like I am doing woodworking in the garage and mentally relaxed, I test in the 150-160 range even after the same "fasting" period. This has been consistent enough times to tell me my cortisol levels have a huge impact on unnecessary glucose being pumped into me by my liver. A few other things I have noticed but not yet consistent enough for me to conclude something reliable.

Yeah, that makes sense. Cortisol is a stress hormone, and it kicks the liver into action. You need energy for fight-or-flight, so the liver dumps glucose, even if there's no sabretooth tiger in sight. Stress isn't what it was when we just came down from the trees, but the system still works the same.

I think you'd devour Dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code. Sounds like you're thirsty for knowledge, and there's a lot in there. (And stuff you can test and check yourself, to boot.)

 

[Resurgam]

There is very little evidence that eating low carb with natural fats is going to cause heart disease or clogged arteries - that Ancel Keyes was a bit of a con artist when it came to statistics. It is a high fat diet compared to that we are told is heart healthy - but one of my small pleasures is seeing the dr or nurse doubt the equipment when they have taken my blood pressure and found it normal. I have even had a few hurt my arm by jarring or straining on the cuff in order to 'correct' the situation. I started to eat low carb in my early twenties and am almost seventy now - though of course I have been pushed and pushed again to avoid such a dangerous way of eating.

 

[VashtiB]

Hello and welcome,

You've made a great start and I'm impressed with the information you found and decisions you made before finding this site- you will be a mine of information for other new people.

I agree with the previous posters that I'm sure you will find that you get much better readings with the next tests.

Good luck and welcome.

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi JayAmerican and welcome to the forum.
If you are not a late developing Type1, the it seems you are a TOFI Type 2 like me. I was at my highest ever weight just 2lbs into the 'overweight' BMI category when Diagnosed. TOFI stands for Thin Outside, Fat Inside - meaning we carry quite a lot of internal fat around our organs (which affects them) and may have Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver.
Depending upon what food you like to eat or which foods you can eat (allergies, intolerances, religion, views on treatment of animals, environmental concerns etc) it can be quite difficult to eat Keto or Low Carb. This can be a problem because this new Way Of Eating will need to be maintained (with perhaps some small lessening of restrictions) for the rest of our lives if we wish to stay 'in remission' and healthy.

I'm surprised that in your re-assessment of all the harmful dietary advice you've been given over the years, that you didn't also come to the conclusion that Atkins was right and that there is not long term damage for saturated fat as a part of a Low Carb or Keto diet. Perhaps it was easier for me to accept because I knew a couple who did Atkins for over 10yrs and always seemed in great shape except for being on the thin side! Lost touch, so I don't know if they are still on Atkins - must be in their mid to late70s now.
I have more reason than most to be cautious because my dad died of heart Attack aged 45 and I needed a 3x bypass a few years ago at age 65 (though I didn't actually have a heart attack - just Angina). Since that bypass op I had been on a Statin along with other medication, but persuaded my GP to cut the dose in half upon T2 D Diagnosis - since my Lipid control was good and Statins can raise Blood Glucose. I'm currently eating LCHF (20 to 50gms of carbs per day) and I'm eating all the saturated fats that I used to eat as a child including fatty cuts of meat (beef, lamb, pork as well as chicken & turkey), full fat dairy, cheese, eggs. The fat in these help keep me feel satiated despite the low carbs. I don't think this Way Of Eating would be sustainable for me in the long term without the Higher Fat part of it. The fats I avoid are those newer ones the poly-unsaturated Omega 6 fats which back a few years they were telling us were healthy (or at least healthier than saturated fats) - how wrong they were!

 

[JayAmerican]

Thankfully I have no food allergies other than noticing about a year ago that milk gave me cramps about 3-4 hours after drinking. Once I started taking a lactase pill before milk, it stopped the problem. I don't have the same issue with other dairy, just straight milk.

I have not been properly exercising the past few years, though I do work around my house rigorously (the first half of this year I fixed up all my landscaping) but what I need is muscle-building type of exercise. I am probably TOFI as you describe - the last thing anyone would refer to me as is overweight.

I do have food preferences but I like having my sight & limbs better and don't want to die young. The 2nd visit to the doctor where my blood sugar was confirmed not a fluke, I completely switched my diet and have had no issue doing it for about 3 weeks now. The first week doing so, I did feel a bit woozy before lunchtime at work - as if my blood sugar was low but of course it was higher than healthy still and my body was just starving for what it was used to. After I got through that week, my body re-balanced and I felt more normal.

I've maintained the same weight but have cut the following out of my diet: all wheat products (literally anything made with wheat/flour), no rice (not even brown rice), no cereal, no oatmeal (until I learn to make my own sans sugars), no pasta, no chips, no crackers, no high fructose fruits (unless small portion diced into a salad), no potatoes, no juices, no sodas, and basically as much as possible nothing that comes in a box or can without first reading the nutrition info. No more packaged tomato sauces or BBQ sauces (who knew they used so much added sugars?), no ketchup. No french fries, etc. I stopped eating almost all fried foods ages ago anyway so this isn't hard.

What I have added or increased in my diet to balance the carb/sugar reductions: walnuts, pecans, almonds and a mix of other nuts that are a little less than ideal but better than carb options: pistachios, cashews, also lots of green vegetables - main staples asparagus, broccoli, spinach, lettuce (usually a bad mix to more easily make salads), bell peppers, cucumbers. Adding in berries, mainly strawberries and blueberries with no-sugar whipping cream sometimes. I'm trying to reduce pre-packaged sliced meat but will still get some deli cut turkey or chicken. Of course red meat (lean cuts), chicken and fish. For fish I'm a horrible cook so mainly I'll only have fish when eating out. When eating out, I will choose a high quality meat and replace things like rice or potatoes with vegetables and beans or if the options are limited then a salad. For cooking & oils, olive oil and regular butter - no more vegetable oil, apparently they are so processed they may as well be poison to humans. Onions and carrots although higher in carbs or bits of sugar-y-ness, will occasionally have due to their other nutritional values. Green tea and coffee (with cream). Of course avocados. Increased eating variety of cheeses.

Added some supplements & vitamins, not worth getting into, just stuff to reduce inflammation and increase needed nutrients.

I am going to try making avocado flatbread tomorrow using either coconut or almond flour, not sure how well that will work since a recipe I saw online used regular flour. That way I can have something bread-like to spread cream cheese onto for an extra options for breakfast or snacks.

I feel like I'm not suffering with the diet change, there are plenty of food alternates. Will I miss bread and rice and pastries? Sure, I love both. Maybe once my levels are more normal and I'm exercising properly I can re-introduce some of those in small amounts but if I can learn to make or find no or low carb alternates that taste good then I don't care. I have a very high tolerance for change.