To statin or not?

[Guzzler]

it was this member : micktodd53, who said their reading was 2.5 so no idea.

I do apologise. My mistake.

 

[Guzzler]

yes my last test was 2.5 i was not told if it was LDL or HDL although there is talk of increased risk of some complications with a low cholesterol risk i will take these over the risks involved with a high level .

The Total Cholesterol number is unimportant unless it is very low or sky high. It is the breakdown/ratio that is important and as to higher cholesterol (even LDL) women especially are said to benefit from higher numbers than those stated in guidelines.

Cholesterol is important not only as a marker for heart health but also for mental health and the immune system.

 

[Guzzler]

Statins do not decrease sdLDL and may even increase the number.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...0SXv0yYFCcL6JMzWhue3AszDI34iklkz-qkkIXuutDqWs

 

[micktodd53]

Im just going by what the hear surgeon said low cholesterol weight loss and healthy diet i dont read studies or papers if 2.5 is bad then when i see him on friday i will ask him and adjust accordingly

 

[Mr_Pot]

Statins do not decrease sdLDL and may even increase the number.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...0SXv0yYFCcL6JMzWhue3AszDI34iklkz-qkkIXuutDqWs

That’s not how I read it. Although the proportion of sdLDL increased, the total amount of sdLDL decreased. Whether that is good or bad, I have no idea.

 

[KK123]

Didn't mean to worry you and your ratios are good. As I understand it cholesterol (rather than just ldl) has many functions in our bodies including repair and everybody has LDL so we might think it exists for a good reason? The LDL particles are there to deliver cholesterol (as if they are boats dropping off supplies) to cells.
The controversy seems to be around whether high LDL is a maker of the problem or a marker of CVD.
Current advice is that its a maker and therefore needs to be reduced particuarly in those with CV risk due to diabetes.
I do not know if your numbers are high and from what I've read high LDL may matter a lot less than keeping blood sugars optimal (impossible in a type 1 imo) with good hdl/trig ratio then doing all you can to look after your heart e.g. not smoking or drinking too much, not getting exposed to poisons and exercising).

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do agree that doing all you can to minimise the effects of diabetes must help (otherwise why do they bang on about lifestyle so much!). I've never smoked, don't drink, run 6 times a week and have done for years and am fairy low carb so I'm hoping that will at least give me a little protection against CVD, also I was diagnosed aged 57. I won't be taking statins that much I do know so onwards and upwards. x

 

[KK123]

The Total Cholesterol number is unimportant unless it is very low or sky high. It is the breakdown/ratio that is important and as to higher cholesterol (even LDL) women especially are said to benefit from higher numbers than those stated in guidelines.

Cholesterol is important not only as a marker for heart health but also for mental health and the immune system.

I agree with you, it makes sense. It is hard though to say that face to face with a Consultant of 40 years telling you that 'LDL is a marker all on its own and raises the risk no matter what the ratio'...aaaarrrrrrrrggggggg.

 

[Guzzler]

I agree with you, it makes sense. It is hard though to say that face to face with a Consultant of 40 years telling you that 'LDL is a marker all on its own and raises the risk no matter what the ratio'...aaaarrrrrrrrggggggg.

When you are sat across the desk from The Big Fella it must, indeed, be very difficult.
An hypothesis that is wrong is still wrong even when cited by a consultant.

 

[JayAmerican]

For my personal experience, when I got diagnosed with T2 3 weeks ago, the blood work also found high LDL and very high triglycerides. I have had high triglycerides all my adult life, and at one point a few years ago I had a heart concern so went to get checked out thoroughly - doctors ran me through numerous tests: blood, EKG, ultrasound, etc. and the result was that my cardiovascular was excellent and heart was healthy as a horse. After my recent blood work, the doctor prescribed Metformin and Atorvastatin. He didn't seem to like my desire to first try diet and lifestyle change and pushed me to take the meds. I have yet to fill the prescriptions, my goal is to correct this without pharmaceuticals and it's my belief that if I correct the T2 glucose levels that they will balance out the cholesterol.

My blood pressure has always been perfect my whole life and I even had an EKG 2 years ago which showed perfection. I know that high bad numbers increase the *risk* but as far as I can see unless a doctor can see some other sign of heart or cardiovascular risk in me, I'm not going to get a drug pushed onto me. BTW the reason I had an EKG 2 years ago may have been my first sign of blood sugar issues and now I think the hospital missed it - I felt some minor tingling in my left arm and a very subtle left chest tightness. This was 2 or 3am I was up late working. I decided not to take a chance and went to the ER. They ran an EKG, did an enzyme test and I think they took blood but I don't recall exactly. All came out fine, doctor told me I probably just need to stretch/exercise more.

Getting diagnosed with T2 has set me straight and I am correcting every imperfection of my blood work, but I am going to do it with diet and lifestyle.

 

[Brunneria]

For my personal experience, when I got diagnosed with T2 3 weeks ago, the blood work also found high LDL and very high triglycerides. I have had high triglycerides all my adult life, and at one point a few years ago I had a heart concern so went to get checked out thoroughly - doctors ran me through numerous tests: blood, EKG, ultrasound, etc. and the result was that my cardiovascular was excellent and heart was healthy as a horse. After my recent blood work, the doctor prescribed Metformin and Atorvastatin. He didn't seem to like my desire to first try diet and lifestyle change and pushed me to take the meds. I have yet to fill the prescriptions, my goal is to correct this without pharmaceuticals and it's my belief that if I correct the T2 glucose levels that they will balance out the cholesterol.

My blood pressure has always been perfect my whole life and I even had an EKG 2 years ago which showed perfection. I know that high bad numbers increase the *risk* but as far as I can see unless a doctor can see some other sign of heart or cardiovascular risk in me, I'm not going to get a drug pushed onto me. BTW the reason I had an EKG 2 years ago may have been my first sign of blood sugar issues and now I think the hospital missed it - I felt some minor tingling in my left arm and a very subtle left chest tightness. This was 2 or 3am I was up late working. I decided not to take a chance and went to the ER. They ran an EKG, did an enzyme test and I think they took blood but I don't recall exactly. All came out fine, doctor told me I probably just need to stretch/exercise more.

Getting diagnosed with T2 has set me straight and I am correcting every imperfection of my blood work, but I am going to do it with diet and lifestyle.

Hi,

Have you had a CAC scan in your tests?
They are supposed to be a far better indicator of heart attack risk than cholesterol, or even diet lifestyle.
It isn't an expensive test, although insurance companies are often (I understand) reluctant to pay for it because it predicts long term risk, which is usually beyond the scope of their interest.

 

[Tophat1900]

Hi,

Have you had a CAC scan in your tests?
They are supposed to be a far better indicator of heart attack risk than cholesterol, or even diet lifestyle.
It isn't an expensive test, although insurance companies are often (I understand) reluctant to pay for it because it predicts long term risk, which is usually beyond the scope of their interest.

I believe CAC is the best option available. A person can have heart disease and pass an ECG just fine. There is no doubting the result of a CAC scan by comparison.

 

[DiabetesDestroyer]

Have had my 3 month review today and so pleased my hard work has paid off! Weight 12 months ago , 12st 2lb, now 11st.
BMI spot in! BP, spot on, HCL 52 12 months ago now 39. No meds. Liver function ok. Diet alone.
BUT, because my cholesterol is still not what they want it to be, gone from 7.5 to 6.5, lipid being 4.7, they want me on statins which I have tried to resist.
The Qrisk score is 18. I did it myself at home didn’t tick diabetes and got 11.9.
Their attitude seems to be your stuck with it take statins!
Asked about family history. Mum had high bop and didn’t have stroke until she was in her early 70’s and lived till she was 92, cause of death dementia.
Thoughts from the man, woman in the street

Due to family history of T2, heart disease and hypertension, I chose to take the statin when my cholesterol was elevated when I was first diagnosed as T2. Having lost weight through diet and exercise and all my results being in the normal range for the last 7 years, I personally believe that being on Metformin, a statin and high blood pressure medication, has benefitted me, as at no stage we’re my results too low. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Hi,

Have you had a CAC scan in your tests?
They are supposed to be a far better indicator of heart attack risk than cholesterol, or even diet lifestyle.
It isn't an expensive test, although insurance companies are often (I understand) reluctant to pay for it because it predicts long term risk, which is usually beyond the scope of their interest.

What do doctors do about it if you "fail" the CAC scan?

 

[Brunneria]

What do doctors do about it if you "fail" the CAC scan?

Not having 'failed' the CAC scan, I can't say from personal experience.

But there is a fair amount of info on the interweb where people get the news that they are at high risk and embark on a campaign of Vit D3, Vit K2, magnesium, keto, pomegranate supplements, and a few other things.
There are some documented cases of a reduction in calcification, which used to be considered unheard of by orthodox medical thinking, but the general view is that once people know they have a high calcification score, they can then slow the rate of future buildup, and monitor it.

I think it is rather like being tested for blood glucose levels.
We can all get told we are 'at high risk of t2 diabetes' til the docs are blue in the face, but few people take the steps to deal with the situation until they get a concrete test result showing that the problem is real, and not potential.

Not wishing to derail the thread from its statin/cholesterol theme, I will just provide links to other places

https://kresserinstitute.com/is-it-...ble-to-reverse-a-high-coronary-calcium-score/

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2017/9035193/

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2017/11/vitamin-k-and-arterial-stiffness

 

[Mr_Pot]

Not having 'failed' the CAC scan, I can't say from personal experience.

But there is a fair amount of info on the interweb where people get the news that they are at high risk and embark on a campaign of Vit D3, Vit K2, magnesium, keto, pomegranate supplements, and a few other things.
There are some documented cases of a reduction in calcification, which used to be considered unheard of by orthodox medical thinking, but the general view is that once people know they have a high calcification score, they can then slow the rate of future buildup, and monitor it.

I think it is rather like being tested for blood glucose levels.
We can all get told we are 'at high risk of t2 diabetes' til the docs are blue in the face, but few people take the steps to deal with the situation until they get a concrete test result showing that the problem is real, and not potential.

Not wishing to derail the thread from its statin/cholesterol theme, I will just provide links to other places

https://kresserinstitute.com/is-it-...ble-to-reverse-a-high-coronary-calcium-score/

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2017/9035193/

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2017/11/vitamin-k-and-arterial-stiffness

Not really a derail as I suspect doctors, as opposed to self help, would prescribe statins in the case of a high CAC score.

 

[JayAmerican]

Hi,

Have you had a CAC scan in your tests?
They are supposed to be a far better indicator of heart attack risk than cholesterol, or even diet lifestyle.
It isn't an expensive test, although insurance companies are often (I understand) reluctant to pay for it because it predicts long term risk, which is usually beyond the scope of their interest.

I will ask for it the next time I go to the general doc's office for the follow-up A1C. I did got to an endocrinologist in the meantime this past week to get additional consultation and blood tests to specifically check for Type 1 just in case (anti bodies and c-peptide) plus checking fasting insulin levels vs just the glucose side of things. The endo told me the same thing as the general doc: "high triglycerides indicate a higher risk of heart disease" but to me there is a difference between "risk" and "actual".

I have had high triglyceride numbers since I was in my early 20's (I'm 47 now) but as recently as a few years ago something got me concerned about my heart and I spent more than 1/2 a day at a medical facility getting every test imaginable on my heart and cardiovascular and was almost laughed out of the office as I was concluded as being healthier than a horse with no detectable issues other than "oh you have high triglycerides which indicate a higher risk of heart disease". And just under 2 years ago I had yet another concern one night (slightly tingly left arm and a bit of left chest tightness) so I went to the ER where they did an EKG, enzyme test, etc, and the doctor basically DID laugh me out of there saying I just needed to stretch and exercise more - that I had 0 signs of any heart issues. I believe now that tingling was the first subtle sign of high blood sugar and the ER may have missed it as it might have just been a spike that later (by the time I got there) went down to levels low enough for them to not flag it. So it must have been sometime in the past 2 years where I was probably hovering at pre-diabetic into Type 2.

This is why I'm not concerned about the triglyceride count as it SEEMS to be a tie-in to my high blood sugar and higher than in the past and bringing down my my sugar levels with a better (more keto) diet should help. I love cheese and red meats, though, so it will take me a while to balance those out vs near-complete cutout of bad carbs and sugars. In the meantime I am just making sure the cheeses are "good" cheeses and the red meat is very lean and grilled not fried. I have not eaten ANY fried food for years except occasional fish or french fries. As of 4 weeks ago, I will never touch another french fry ever again and fish must be baked or grilled and never fried (or sushi but not with rice).

 

[Tophat1900]

@JayAmerican your post reminds me of David bobbett who runs the Irish heart disease awareness charity. He was told he is bullet proof by doctors, healthy as a horse. Passing tests, he was a slim super fit runner, but then he had a CAC scan done in 2011 during a routine check up in the US and actually found out he had serious heart disease. He views the scan as saving his life, while doctors had no clue he had serious disease and spent years telling him how healthy he was, nothing to worry about they said. It would be worth while getting it done if you really want to know. High trigs are not a good sign. Having said that I need to get a scan done also.

 

[jjraak]

@JayAmerican .
Hi,
I don't take statins, but have read all the marvellous threads posted about it.
i rarely post in as i know too little to be of use.

while anecdotal and not wishing to derail thread.

i had tests done in 2011 and 2012..then again from Dx aug 2018 x 4

Trtigs were in order, 6.07 / 3.86 / -- 2.46 / 2.49 / 2.21 /1.21

The first was when i now think i was T2 or close, but no one mentioned diabetes

the blip from 2.46 to 2.49..was me taking the Eatwell literally.

and the last 2 are the reason i post,
those numbers,were AFTER all the years of eating 'Well' and 'healthy'..
( Missus on my case as she WAS the Food police, back then )

2011 to DX was years of eating all the things we both KNEW to be healthy...LoL

yet the last two numbers came from LCHF

Steaks that were beautifully marbled, butter not spreads, olive oil not veg oils, cheeses hard and Soft
Boursin, cheddar, etc..No gorgonzolas or such :***:

Won't be the same for anyone or everyone
just a note that for me, cheeses, meat fats..all good.

I wish you well on your journey.
good luck for good results, if you do go for the CAC.

 

[JayAmerican]

@JayAmerican .
Won't be the same for anyone or everyone
just a note that for me, cheeses, meat fats..all good.

I wish you well on your journey.
good luck for good results, if you do go for the CAC.

Thanks, I will keep the CAC in mind to ask about for next general visit, I just got my latest visit bills and they're enough to cause a heart attack on their own lol

The most interesting thing to me is that my lowest blood sugar counts always come after eating grilled steak & green veggies and 0 bad carbs. Also after working in the garage,

 

[Mike d]

Thanks, I will keep the CAC in mind to ask about for next general visit, I just got my latest visit bills and they're enough to cause a heart attack on their own lol

Liz Warren will sort all that out