Prediabetic BG but underweight, seeking advice.

Alexandra100

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Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi tpower, I'd be really interested to hear you got on since your last post. I am also low weight (BMI 18.2) and prediabetic for the past 18 months. HBA1c measured three monthly, originally 43 then 44, 43 and recently 45 mmol/mol. I had a GAD test, negative, but the endo the GP has been communicating with said no other tests would be useful. I've been on a very low carb diet for 18 months but can see no pattern from what I eat or from exercise - sometimes BG is low when I expect it to be high and vice versa. Very rarely in the 4s, sometimes in the 5s, more often in the 6s and frequently 7s and 8s or higher after eating. I'm seeing the GP again next week after the most recent HBA1c and just don't know what to say to her, except that I'm in limbo and would like some answers or at least some interest shown in what is happening to me. Any suggestions gratefully received after your experiences.
Would just like to ad that I have researched tirelessly for the past 18 months into all this and am 'up to here' with reading papers!
Hi @Cazt, now I'm wondering how you got on at your recent GP visit? I am another tireless researcher (get very tired during other activities) and in limbo and with unpredictable results! How low carb are you eating? I am on <20g carbs daily. I very rarely see 4s, often 5s, high 6s far more often than I would like. 7 would make me jump out of my skin and 8 would incline me to put my head in the gas oven (a safe threat with natural gas).

Do you suspect you are in fact living with LADA?
 

Auto E

Well-Known Member
Messages
132
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I am trying to eat my last food of the day between 5 & 6pm but find this very inconvenient so often fail. At least I more often than not manage to eat before 7pm. I find that if my last food is before 4pm I get too hungry before bedtime. My main meal is lunch (again, hyper-inconvenient) and I try to eat 2 portions of low carb vegetables then. In the evening I only eat 100g chicken, plus lately I am experimenting with 2 units of red wine, in the hope of improving my bedtime & morning bgs. I'm not sure yet if this is working, but I'm loving the red wine, though shocked at how small a measure = 2 units (recommended max daily allowance). Do keep us updated as to your success with early evening meals.
Alexandra!!! Last night I ate dinner (chicken drumstick and a steak round) at 4:30pm. Then I had my usual decaf w/cream afterwards (probably about 6pm - so earlier than normal). This morning......... 89mg/dL/4.9mmol/L!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have not seen that kind of a fasting number in AGES..... I am giddy!
I'm sorry about you getting hungry. Not only do I NOT get hungry in the evening, I often feel nauseous after a late dinner and then wake up sick during the night. :-( So this method is clearly a better fit for my circadian rhythm. It is inconvenient, though.
PS I am now also eating MORE in the morning. I was skipping breakfast for so long, but now I'm front-loading my day and just eating dinner earlier. My horrible hunger has always been between lunch and dinner. So ... I guess I'll just eat earlier. I can't wait to see if this pattern could continue. We all know how inexplicable our BG readings can be!
 

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
This morning......... 89mg/dL/4.9mmol/L!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have not seen that kind of a fasting number in AGES
Brilliant! You give me hope. Would you mind telling me what you eat for breakfast?

PS I just caught up with your info. on breakfast elsewhere.
 
Last edited:

Auto E

Well-Known Member
Messages
132
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Thanks for this book recommendation. I'm interested in reading this.
BTW, I also cope much better with carbs in the morning. I'm currently experimenting with having dinner very early (4pm) to see if that helps my FBG.
I need to edit this comment because I'm realizing that I don't really know if I cope better with carbs in the morning than the evening. I eat very low carb for breakfast (if I have it all), so my comment was reflecting that I don't see spikes in the morning. Anyway, I guess I need to gather more data before I make a pronouncement like that! ;-)
 

Alexandra100

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Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I need to edit this comment because I'm realizing that I don't really know if I cope better with carbs in the morning than the evening. I eat very low carb for breakfast (if I have it all), so my comment was reflecting that I don't see spikes in the morning. Anyway, I guess I need to gather more data before I make a pronouncement like that! ;-)
@Auto E , I am enjoying that we do seem to have a lot in common! I have always taken seriously the idea that we are more carb-resistant in the morning, so I keep my carbs at breakfast pretty low. I suspect that because my problem is more lack of insulin than resistance, this may not be necessary, but I daren't experiment! I eat most of my few carbs at lunch, almost none (much less than at breakfast) at dinner. I also wonder if I wake up with a small stock of insulin replenished over night, which has pretty much run out before dinner time. So eating more carbs at breakfast might just use up my insulin supplies earlier in the day. Currently my lowest readings are before lunch. Do keep on gathering (and communicating) data!
 

Juicyj

Expert
Retired Moderator
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@Auto E , I am enjoying that we do seem to have a lot in common! I have always taken seriously the idea that we are more carb-resistant in the morning, so I keep my carbs at breakfast pretty low. I suspect that because my problem is more lack of insulin than resistance, this may not be necessary, but I daren't experiment! I eat most of my few carbs at lunch, almost none (much less than at breakfast) at dinner. I also wonder if I wake up with a small stock of insulin replenished over night, which has pretty much run out before dinner time. So eating more carbs at breakfast might just use up my insulin supplies earlier in the day. Currently my lowest readings are before lunch. Do keep on gathering (and communicating) data!

Alexander, sorry but someone with no diabetes diagnosis, 'you are wondering if you wake up with a small stock of insulin which was replenished overnight and which has run out by dinner time', I am confused, what and how are basing this assumption on ?

Also if you haven't had a diagnosis, why are you obsessing over your health like this ?
 
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Alexandra100

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Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Alexander, sorry but someone with no diabetes diagnosis, 'you are wondering if you wake up with a small stock of insulin which was replenished overnight and which has run out by dinner time', I am confused, what and how are basing this assumption on ?

Also if you haven't had a diagnosis, why are you obsessing over your health like this ?
Hello, Juicy, I am a woman and my name is Alexandra. I do particularly dislike being called Alexander. Secondly, saying as I did, "I wonder if ..." is very different from making an assumption. Regarding the vexed question of diagnosis, I can understand from reading people's stories here that for many there is a dramatic event leading to a diagnosis and urgent treatment. Even then, mis-diagnosis is common, with people being categorised initially as T2s only to be re-diagnosed sometimes years later as LADA/T1. In my case, my deterioration has been gradual. My first A1c was 41. This makes me pre-diabetic in the US, though not yet in the UK. In the US a fasting bg of 5.6 also counts as pre-diabetic and I frequently see fasting bgs over 6.

A VLC diet of <20g carbs daily has enabled me to lower my A1c to 38, so just below the US pre-diabetic threshold of 38.8. This contrasts with the success stories of many T2s here, who show in their signatures that they have reduced their bgs from sometimes very high levels to "normal" ones. Two years ago, eating higher carb than I do now, I quite often saw bgs in the high 4s. No longer.

I would like this Forum to be a safe, sympathetic place where we can "wonder" about and discuss the ramifications of this extremely complicated and distressing disease. I find it hurtful and shocking to be accused of "obsessing over your health like this". You know nothing about my health, which is in fact dreadful. Ironically, I can't even complain to the Mods, as you are one.
 

Juicyj

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@Alexandra100

Apologies for the typo Alexandra, I know who you are and that you are female we have had conversations before.

I asked you a question about what you were basing your insulin storing assumptions from which you haven't answered.

I appreciate the forum should be somewhere where sympathetic discussions can take place but although many are mis diagnosed you haven't been diagnosed, your blood glucose levels are something which I would be overjoyed with, type 1 diagnosis means trying to walk a daily tightrope, my levels can range from anywhere from 2.9 to 16mmol/l, I am constantly trying to manage insulin, food, exercise, stress, and any other hormones my body is producing on a daily basis, you are in an extremely fortunate position which I would only dream of at your levels.

I don't appreciate your defensive attack on my post where you avoiding answering my questions.
 
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Alexandra100

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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@Alexandra100

Apologies for the typo Alexandra, I know who you are and that you are female we have had conversations before.

I asked you a question about what you were basing your insulin storing assumptions from which you haven't answered.

I appreciate the forum should be somewhere where sympathetic discussions can take place but although many are mis diagnosed you haven't been diagnosed, your blood glucose levels are something which I would be overjoyed with, type 1 diagnosis means trying to walk a daily tightrope, my levels can range from anywhere from 2.9 to 16mmol/l, I am constantly trying to manage insulin, food, exercise, stress, and any other hormones my body is producing on a daily basis, you are in an extremely fortunate position which I would only dream of at your levels.

I don't appreciate your defensive attack on my post where you avoiding answering my questions.
I would like to know if you are questioning me as a member of the Forum or as a Mod?
 

Antje77

Oracle
Retired Moderator
Messages
19,284
Type of diabetes
LADA
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Insulin
I also wonder if I wake up with a small stock of insulin replenished over night, which has pretty much run out before dinner time. So eating more carbs at breakfast might just use up my insulin supplies earlier in the day.
Insulin doesn't work like that, it's produced on demand and used right away. Your body doesn't stock it.
77238892_10219141858571668_3718780648509407232_o.jpg
 
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Alexandra100

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3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Insulin doesn't work like that, it's produced on demand and used right away. Your body doesn't stock it.
77238892_10219141858571668_3718780648509407232_o.jpg
Thanks @Antje77, very illuminating. Another theory bites the dust. Do you have any ideas why my results should be best around midday and worst in the evening?
 

JohnH2019

Well-Known Member
Messages
76
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I am trying to eat my last food of the day between 5 & 6pm but find this very inconvenient so often fail. At least I more often than not manage to eat before 7pm. I find that if my last food is before 4pm I get too hungry before bedtime. My main meal is lunch (again, hyper-inconvenient) and I try to eat 2 portions of low carb vegetables then. In the evening I only eat 100g chicken, plus lately I am experimenting with 2 units of red wine, in the hope of improving my bedtime & morning bgs. I'm not sure yet if this is working, but I'm loving the red wine, though shocked at how small a measure = 2 units (recommended max daily allowance). Do keep us updated as to your success with early evening meals.
Just like I mentioned to the original poster tpower, have you been tested to rule out exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI)? One reason why you may still feel hungry is if you are not properly breaking down your food into nutrients.

Another idea is that you are just not eating enough calories. I remember when I started the whole primal lifestyle (life saver!) I initially did not eat enough healthy fat and calories. Have you tried adding more healthy fat for dinner (avocado, seeds, nuts, hard cheese, etc.). It helped me with satiety. Alcohol, and any liquid calories I cut out completely to help my pancreas. Are you really at <20 grams of carbs a day, as that is extremely low? Two glasses of wine is half that already.

A list of books that helped me:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/posts/2111414/

A few videos that helped me:

https://blog.virtahealth.com/dr-stephen-phinney-ketosis-ketogenic-diets/
 

JohnH2019

Well-Known Member
Messages
76
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Alexandra!!! Last night I ate dinner (chicken drumstick and a steak round) at 4:30pm. Then I had my usual decaf w/cream afterwards (probably about 6pm - so earlier than normal). This morning......... 89mg/dL/4.9mmol/L!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have not seen that kind of a fasting number in AGES..... I am giddy!
I'm sorry about you getting hungry. Not only do I NOT get hungry in the evening, I often feel nauseous after a late dinner and then wake up sick during the night. :-( So this method is clearly a better fit for my circadian rhythm. It is inconvenient, though.
PS I am now also eating MORE in the morning. I was skipping breakfast for so long, but now I'm front-loading my day and just eating dinner earlier. My horrible hunger has always been between lunch and dinner. So ... I guess I'll just eat earlier. I can't wait to see if this pattern could continue. We all know how inexplicable our BG readings can be!

Glad to see you had a good result. Nausea after eating was also something I had due to the exocrine pancreatic insufficiency.

The old saying really is worthwhile: "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper,"

Regarding the cravings in the afternoon, that is very normal. What helps me is a handful of seeds and nuts, sometimes an avocado, biltong or some hard cheese. Find some healthy fat items you like to help with satiety.
 

Cazt

Newbie
Messages
3
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi @Cazt, now I'm wondering how you got on at your recent GP visit? I am another tireless researcher (get very tired during other activities) and in limbo and with unpredictable results! How low carb are you eating? I am on <20g carbs daily. I very rarely see 4s, often 5s, high 6s far more often than I would like. 7 would make me jump out of my skin and 8 would incline me to put my head in the gas oven (a safe threat with natural gas).

Do you suspect you are in fact living with LADA?

Hi Alexandra, just seen this as I haven't been into the forum for a while and thanks for asking. Not sure exactly when I posted but nothing much different here really. My HBA21c was 47 at the last count in February which didn't please me - only one more and it's into diabetes, despite keeping stringently to the protocol. The GP offered a pancreatic CT scan which I had in December and it looked fine. With the pandemic I haven't been back for another blood test but will soon. Still LCHF + lots of exercise so hoping that the numbers will stay stable or go down. Hope all is well with you now. How do I PM on this forum?
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi Alexandra, just seen this as I haven't been into the forum for a while and thanks for asking. Not sure exactly when I posted but nothing much different here really. My HBA21c was 47 at the last count in February which didn't please me - only one more and it's into diabetes, despite keeping stringently to the protocol. The GP offered a pancreatic CT scan which I had in December and it looked fine. With the pandemic I haven't been back for another blood test but will soon. Still LCHF + lots of exercise so hoping that the numbers will stay stable or go down. Hope all is well with you now. How do I PM on this forum?

Hi,

members need a certain thread count in order to be able to send a PM. This is to prevent spammers and the untrustworthy from arriving on the forum and immediately launching into iffy PM sales pitches.

So you won’t be able tp PM anyone until you have a few more posts under your belt. Although I must admit I can’t remember how many posts you need. Just keep posting, and sooner or later your PM ability will open up.