What is the difference between starvation and fasting?

[Tumbleweed2018]

@bulkbiker @ianf0ster

I've decided to start eating lunch and dinner instead of the breakfast and dinner I suggested in my earlier post. Thanks for the advice.

@Resurgam I've been eating one meal a day for a while. I did lose about 7 lbs in the beginning but I have completely stalled apart from that. After reading all the replies I've had I think that my problem might be that I don't eat enough. I feel awful. So, for a few weeks at least I'm going to stop worrying about anything to do with my weight and just do my best to eat a normal low carb diet as best I can in the hope of feeling better.

Is your problem, then, that if you skip your one meal and eat nothing for a day your body "shouts" at you?
That is, going straight to a 48 hour fast?
Facing a whole day with no prospect of food can be very mentally daunting.

I simply can't cope with not eating at least once a day - I've tried several times. So attempts at fasting for longer have all eventually failed in a big way. If I try it I tend to go nuts when I break the fast. And I feel awful both during and after the fast. I've decided that I won't try and fast for a while. If I am nearly fainting then it just isn't worth it.

To be honest, Tumbleweed, if you are hypothyroid and not absorbing your nutrients well, I would challenge if your hypothyroidism is well enough treated.

I would agree - I'm sure my hypothyroidism isn't treated well. But by deciding to treat myself back in 2013, and never having a TSH > 10, my doctor would dispute the idea that I have hypothyroidism at all. One particular problem I have is that I have a physical issue with my brain (that I don't want to discuss) and amongst other things it has affected my pituitary which has been pulled in one direction, and is squashed in another. But the effect of this is not pronounced enough on my TSH (when untreated) for any doctor to ever say "Let's test you for secondary hypothyroidism." They just tell me its rare (and therefore they imply that I can't possibly have it). I haven't pushed for a diagnosis of secondary hypothyroidism, to be honest, because the only treatment I would be offered is Levo and I can't tolerate that. I don't see doctors for my hypothyroidism at all - I buy my own hormones and pay for my own private testing.

I have found that I feel best on T3 only, having tried (over the last six years) Levo, NDT, Levo + T3, and T3 only. At the merest whiff of T3 my TSH plummets, and can be almost unmeasurable while Free T4 is under the range and Free T3 is barely in range. But when I increase my T3 dose I get tachycardia and feel awful. So at the moment I am under-medicated by my own choice because I can't cope with the tachycardia.

So, my issues are rather more difficult than my first posts in this thread suggested, but I don't want to go into too many details for privacy reasons.

I've decided that I will start eating two meals a day for a few weeks, sticking to low carb principles, and see how I get on. I'm more concerned about how well I feel and how much energy I have rather than what the number says on the scales (although it would be very nice if the needle moved down...)

 

[bulkbiker]

@bulkbiker @ianf0ster

I've decided to start eating lunch and dinner instead of the breakfast and dinner I suggested in my earlier post. Thanks for the advice.

Good luck and let us know how you get on please.

 

[DCUKMod]

@bulkbiker @ianf0ster

I've decided to start eating lunch and dinner instead of the breakfast and dinner I suggested in my earlier post. Thanks for the advice.

@Resurgam I've been eating one meal a day for a while. I did lose about 7 lbs in the beginning but I have completely stalled apart from that. After reading all the replies I've had I think that my problem might be that I don't eat enough. I feel awful. So, for a few weeks at least I'm going to stop worrying about anything to do with my weight and just do my best to eat a normal low carb diet as best I can in the hope of feeling better.



I simply can't cope with not eating at least once a day - I've tried several times. So attempts at fasting for longer have all eventually failed in a big way. If I try it I tend to go nuts when I break the fast. And I feel awful both during and after the fast. I've decided that I won't try and fast for a while. If I am nearly fainting then it just isn't worth it.



I would agree - I'm sure my hypothyroidism isn't treated well. But by deciding to treat myself back in 2013, and never having a TSH > 10, my doctor would dispute the idea that I have hypothyroidism at all. One particular problem I have is that I have a physical issue with my brain (that I don't want to discuss) and amongst other things it has affected my pituitary which has been pulled in one direction, and is squashed in another. But the effect of this is not pronounced enough on my TSH (when untreated) for any doctor to ever say "Let's test you for secondary hypothyroidism." They just tell me its rare (and therefore they imply that I can't possibly have it). I haven't pushed for a diagnosis of secondary hypothyroidism, to be honest, because the only treatment I would be offered is Levo and I can't tolerate that. I don't see doctors for my hypothyroidism at all - I buy my own hormones and pay for my own private testing.

I have found that I feel best on T3 only, having tried (over the last six years) Levo, NDT, Levo + T3, and T3 only. At the merest whiff of T3 my TSH plummets, and can be almost unmeasurable while Free T4 is under the range and Free T3 is barely in range. But when I increase my T3 dose I get tachycardia and feel awful. So at the moment I am under-medicated by my own choice because I can't cope with the tachycardia.

So, my issues are rather more difficult than my first posts in this thread suggested, but I don't want to go into too many details for privacy reasons.

I've decided that I will start eating two meals a day for a few weeks, sticking to low carb principles, and see how I get on. I'm more concerned about how well I feel and how much energy I have rather than what the number says on the scales (although it would be very nice if the needle moved down...)

Just as an aside, I was diagnosed by my GP as hypothyroid, on the basis of atypical symptoms and a TSH of 5.8. It has never been higher. My diagnosis, based on that same reading, was confirmed by an Endo, prior to starting a trial of T3.

It's so sad that the views on hypothyroidism are so fragmented, but then again, that's just like diabetes.

Anyway, I'll desist from derailing your thread any further.

Good luck with it all.

 

[TriciaWs]

For most people who are well nourished a short fast has no major impact on your body's nutritional status. Your body would have enough protein, enough fat, enough vitamins and minerals to continue to operate. It can convert stored fat or even protein into glucose.
Starving is a state where your body does not have the protein, fats, etc. that it requires. People can survive for weeks without eating as long as they have water, but they will lose muscle as well as body fat and may have long term organ damage.

Wikipedia: "Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy intake, below the level needed to maintain an organism's life. It is the most extreme form of malnutrition. In humans, prolonged starvation can cause permanent organ damage and eventually, death."

Many religions have fast periods, although most modern Christians don't fast any more. These vary from one day (24 hour) fasts to a period of fasting during daylight hours - and these include not drinking. Healthy people do these fasts without any health issues although they will often feel thirsty and hungry.
But there are other reasons why even a short fast may not be the best option, eg previous eating disorders.

 

[Resurgam]

Sometimes I feel really guilty at feeling so like a Tigger on my way of eating. I have to tell myself that I am just lucky, that being born at 13:13 on Friday the thirteenth - and being an Aries too - I am simply fortunate.

 

[Nagra]

I have another question on this subject. There are people who feel fine when going through what they term "fasting" (but I can't distinguish from theoretical starvation).

I feel awful. I feel anxious, hungry, dizzy, weak, exhausted, and my balance, which is never good, gets much, much worse and I start falling over. I can barely talk in complete sentences and my memory, which is also never good, deteriorates noticeably. And I can't understand why this isn't the same for everyone.

Starving is when you dont have food or enought food . Fasting for me is plenty of food in my refrigerator and pantry and I volunteriely tell my body that you can't have it . If you want it you can eat the stored fat . It is very hard in the begning . More harder mentally then physically but I keep going from 18:6 to OMAD to 48 hrs 72 hrs . It does not come in one day. The first week was awfull. but when I went into the full blown ketosis. I was kind of running on JET fuel. No feeling of fainting , or weakness or exhaustion. In fact after the first week it was opposite. I was the person who would need car to drive to the corner shop. Now walking 5 miles on a minute's notice is nothing. brain is working much better. long term pains and aches are history now. Bye bye to prediabetes. Hello to fasting , whole foods LCHF. but on the side of caution I had my BP monitored, Blood sugar Monitored , Ketone levels Monitored. On 72 hours fasts when the blood glucose went around 3.1 mmol/l I would break my fast even though I felt no symptoms of Hypoglycemia. My biggest support were the members of Dr Jason fung's facebook group "the obesity code network". it is free but invite group . Members are highly supportive and admins have all the intellegence of fasting. we all have our good days and bad days but the final result is always good.

 

[searley]

I did once stop eating for 5 or 6 days.. first day I was hungry after that I felt nothing even 5 days later