The future of our health and our health system.

davej1950

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I retired a couple of years ago after 47 years working at various jobs in my local NHS hospital.
"Every single piece of equipment was used once and thrown away, everything was wrapped in plastic."
Anything that has come into contact with a patient has to be cleaned, inspected, packed and sterilised before it can be used again. Some items made of plastic cannot be sterilised. Often it makes economic sense to throw away and buy new. When I worked in Pathology I worked out we could save over £10,000 a year by buying new glass and plastic specimen containers rather than hand cleaning, machine washing, re-capping and autoclaving them to sterilise them.
There is an awful lot that can be done to save money but often it is difficult to alter the mindset of people. We had a room with 5 medical secretaries who all had there own inkjet printer that had to regularly change the ink cartridge because all they used was blue for the NHS logo. We proposed one printer linked to all their PCs and again it would save money. The comment "what will it do to the carpet with us all having to walk to it!" Ignore the cost saving.
With the advent of sophisticated (american) health care computers we suggested giving every patient an itemised statement of what their treatment had cost to give people some idea of what this "free" service meant, in the hope that they would appreciate it more and understand where their money was being spent. The idea came to nothing.
 
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lucylocket61

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We pay higher taxes to fund the NHS, including national insurance contributions, which go into the general pot.

I don't see how itemised statements helps. Unless the idea is to further shame the poor, or make people feel guilty for necessary treatment.

It's hard enough to get essential treatment, without being blamed for costing money for having it.
 

videoman

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The cost is rising because we are getting older and as diabetics we would not have lived long but with better meds and treatment we are living longer as I am because when diagnosed in 1961 the life was not great but now I'm 73 and living quite well but using meds a lot
 
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JohnEGreen

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Kingsmill Hospital has to pay about 16% of their operating budget that is £3 million a month this is the result of the involvement of the private sector by the time they will have finished paying this debt they will have paid £2.5 billion for a hospital that cost only £298.9 million to build now that I think is a real waste of tax payers money.
 
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DavidGrahamJones

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After all, if the the NHS is such a great model, why hasn’t any other country copied it for their citizens?

I could hazard a guess and say that the NHS we have today has changed significantly since Thatcher's rein. One small example. The idea of outsourcing, not a great fan myself but they're so convincing. So they outsourced cleaning, cleaning has nothing to do with medical things after all. They outsourced cleaning and guess what happened, there was an increase in the incidence of MRSA. Even in the last couple of years there has been some research done showing that in hospitals where they retained their own cleaners the incidence of MRSA is about 1.46 per 100,000 and that figure is 2,28 per 100,000 where cleaning has been outsourced.

The NHS is being slowed chopped up in pieces so that it can be sold off.
 

Jaylee

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Thank you @DavidGrahamJones ,

It's a fair chunk to get through at 2 hours & 5 minutes. But it's a compelling & well constructed regarding pulling together concisely something I had suspected for quite some time..Feeling something was "up" a number of years ago taking my mum for a scan & greeting Virgin employees then seeing the brand name emblazoned over the entrance to the unit..

... & this is how it started. With the "snatching" of kid's milk.
 

Jaylee

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I could hazard a guess and say that the NHS we have today has changed significantly since Thatcher's rein. One small example. The idea of outsourcing, not a great fan myself but they're so convincing. So they outsourced cleaning, cleaning has nothing to do with medical things after all. They outsourced cleaning and guess what happened, there was an increase in the incidence of MRSA. Even in the last couple of years there has been some research done showing that in hospitals where they retained their own cleaners the incidence of MRSA is about 1.46 per 100,000 and that figure is 2,28 per 100,000 where cleaning has been outsourced.

The NHS is being slowed chopped up in pieces so that it can be sold off.

"First they came..." Martin Niemöller. Sort of comes to mind. Nobody was that concerned about the cleaners at the time. ;)

Untill I paraphrased the poem to those further up the "food chain."
 

bulkbiker

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We do realise don't we that GP surgeries are not "run" by the NHS but are either composed of independent contractors (individual GP's) or partnerships of Doctors.
That's why they have "guidelines" to follow and not rules and explains why the quality of care can vary so much across different locations.
I wonder if these effectively private companies are included in what the NHS spends on "external" providers? Maybe someone who knows more can let us know.
 

JohnEGreen

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Please do not ignore the fact that though the NHS relies a lot on foreign nationals so does the private sector 68% of foreign nationals working in the health sector work within the NHS but 32% work within private health care and the majority of the foreign nationals from the EU choose to work within the private health care sector.

So those who think going private is the answer may be mistaken also many if not most who go private for initial consultations then return for treatment in the NHS especially those with chronic conditions, so private health care does not necessarily relieve the burden on the NHS to any great degree.
 
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DavidGrahamJones

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This is an interesting documentary by John Pilger, a well known journalist and film maker. Although it spends a lot of time looking at what can happen in the U.S. when you just don't have the money to pay for medicine, it also touches on the reasons why our own NHS is under threat.

https://www.itv.com/hub/the-dirty-war-on-the-nhs/2a5959a0001

An interesting note, Ofcom prevented the broadcasting of this documentary until after the general election. Ofcom are meant to be unbiased but I have my doubts. Sorry to mention politics but added to the Ofcom decision, a report from the Office of Budgetary Responsibility warning H.M Government that they are heading for an overspend of £20 billion, to date, was also held up until after the election. That report into possible Russian interference into the referendum was also "sat" upon until last week sometime, doesn't give me any confidence in anything H.M Government is saying or even Parliament come to that.
 
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Jaylee

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This is an interesting documentary by John Pilger, a well known journalist and film maker. Although it spends a lot of time looking at what can happen in the U.S. when you just don't have the money to pay for medicine, it also touches on the reasons why our own NHS is under threat.

https://www.itv.com/hub/the-dirty-war-on-the-nhs/2a5959a0001

An interesting note, Ofcom prevented the broadcasting of this documentary until after the general election. Ofcom are meant to be unbiased but I have my doubts. Sorry to mention politics but added to the Ofcom decision, a report from the Office of Budgetary Responsibility warning H.M Government that they are heading for an overspend of £20 billion, to date, was also held up until after the election. That report into possible Russian interference into the referendum was also "sat" upon until last week sometime, doesn't give me any confidence in anything H.M Government is saying or even Parliament come to that.

If there was a thankyou button, I'd hit it.. One To watch tonight..
 

DavidGrahamJones

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If there was a thankyou button, I'd hit it.

Thank you. I'm told that I read into things too much, but that's the only way to separate out all the conspiracy theory.

I have a very real interest in protecting and improving OUR N.H.S. and will man the barricades if the time comes. It has warts, lots of them, but in looking at the state of the N.H.S. today it's interesting how those in the N.H.S. (my sister, 3 friends whose children are doctors and 1 friend whose son is a nurse for example) will frequently mention the middle layer of management who are just bean counters. Unfortunately I can't separate the issue from politics and it's very easy to overlook what has happened in the last 20 years, so that includes both parties.

The Private Finance Initiative is something to be aware of and how much is now owed by some hospitals. When I hear that matey boy is putting £30 billion plus into the N.H.S. I take note of the fact it says "by 2024". We shall see.
 

JohnEGreen

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This is an interesting documentary by John Pilger, a well known journalist and film maker. Although it spends a lot of time looking at what can happen in the U.S. when you just don't have the money to pay for medicine, it also touches on the reasons why our own NHS is under threat.

https://www.itv.com/hub/the-dirty-war-on-the-nhs/2a5959a0001

An interesting note, Ofcom prevented the broadcasting of this documentary until after the general election. Ofcom are meant to be unbiased but I have my doubts. Sorry to mention politics but added to the Ofcom decision, a report from the Office of Budgetary Responsibility warning H.M Government that they are heading for an overspend of £20 billion, to date, was also held up until after the election. That report into possible Russian interference into the referendum was also "sat" upon until last week sometime, doesn't give me any confidence in anything H.M Government is saying or even Parliament come to that.
Yup I watched it then watched it again yet another frightening and I think accurate documentary if true we are going to end up with a two tier system one for the well off who can pay, or afford health insurance and another inferior service for those who can't. Just like in the USA.
 

lucylocket61

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we are going to end up with a two tier system one for the well off who can pay, or afford health insurance and another inferior service for those who can't. Just like in the USA.
The NHS was like this initially and was not intended to do as much as it does now, according to several octogenarians I have spoken to recently about this.

Anything extra was paid for by a weekly small insurance scheme in workplaces, or a private collection or charity.

Not that I support the idea of going back to that.
 

lindisfel

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The Health service at its outset was intended as cradle to grave care, it was just not so comprehensive in its facilities as it is now. The science has moved forward a long way. Therapies for cancer treatment have changed by quantum leaps

The NHS has been grossly underfunded for the last decade, even Corbyn's proposed increased spending per annum was less than the Blair governments increases.

I have said to a number of people that I would be happy to pay another 3p on the basic tax rate if it was collected to fully fund the health service. I mentioned this to a right wing Christian and he went ballistic about paying more and he was by no means poor.
People want the treatment but many don't want to cover the needs of those who have little.
We will have to wait and see what happens with the proposed Tory increases in the NHS.

We all have to be realistic, promises even to friends who won't be forsaken mean nothing.
Every time I look out over the Irish Sea I expect to see the fence posts appearing when the tide drops.:)

D.
 
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JohnEGreen

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“That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were.”
Aneurin Bevan July 3rd, 1948 the day before the inauguration of the NHS.
 

bulkbiker

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I have said to a number of people that I would be happy to pay another 3p on the basic tax rate if it was collected to fully fund the health service.
Or how about free at the point of delivery is means tested?
Anyone earning over a certain amount would be expected to contribute something towards their costs?