Sometimes I’d happily go back to using a syringe

[rochari]

Insulin pens are handy, easy to use etc but occasionally I hate the one I have here. When I used syringes, I always pulled the plunger back a few units to check if any blood came in. If it did, the needle came out and I re-injected after repeating the process. That was one of the first rules taught to me by the hospital when I was a kid.

I understand why I can’t do this with a pen as the functionality isn’t there but this morning, once again, I had a problem that’s ‘lived’ with me all day. The needle went in fine, pushed the pen plunger and when I removed the needle, blood everywhere. I know it wasn’t anywhere near an artery and that I’d probably hit a wee capillary but that didn’t make me feel any better. Stress levels went through the ceiling ‘just in case’ it WAS an artery and all day I over-compensated in testing my sugar levels. Also, some blood had actually made its way back into the insulin cartridge so, rightly or wrongly, I binned it (that’s not the first time this has happened).

Thankfully, sugar levels were OK but if they still made my insulin available in the little bottles instead of exclusively in pen cartridges I’d return to the ‘old days’ way of doing it.

Bill

 

[DCUKMod]

Insulin pens are handy, easy to use etc but occasionally I hate the one I have here. When I used syringes, I always pulled the plunger back a few units to check if any blood came in. If it did, the needle came out and I re-injected after repeating the process. That was one of the first rules taught to me by the hospital when I was a kid.

I understand why I can’t do this with a pen as the functionality isn’t there but this morning, once again, I had a problem that’s ‘lived’ with me all day. The needle went in fine, pushed the pen plunger and when I removed the needle, blood everywhere. I know it wasn’t anywhere near an artery and that I’d probably hit a wee capillary but that didn’t make me feel any better. Stress levels went through the ceiling ‘just in case’ it WAS an artery and all day I over-compensated in testing my sugar levels. Also, some blood had actually made its way back into the insulin cartridge so, rightly or wrongly, I binned it (that’s not the first time this has happened).

Thankfully, sugar levels were OK but if they still made my insulin available in the little bottles instead of exclusively in pen cartridges I’d return to the ‘old days’ way of doing it.

Bill

If the pen fills have a rubber bung, like the traditional vials (Can you tell, I'm not an insulin user), surely you could use syringes and needles? I know some people who pump use syringes as a back up, for pump failures, rather than keep a supply of pens that might go out of date without ever seeing the light of day.

I have a feeling @Kim Possible might do this.

Kim, apologies if I mis-remembered.

 

[JMK1954]

I went back to disposable syringes because of severe arthritis in my hands. I had a heck of a job trying to get the DSN to accept this. She continued to prescribe insulin pens. Two pens at £40 each went straight back to the chemist for destruction. I couldn't get the cartrdges in or out. The second lot I opened in the chemist and refused to accept. In the end, I had to get down to the hospital on the bus and get hold of a different DSN. I showed her the state of my hands and explained the situation. It took me three weeks to get what I needed - lovely. light disposable syringes and vials of insulin.

 

[becca59]

I’m sorry JMK1954 I do not understand how syringes would be easier. What cartridges in and out on insulin pens? All you have to do is put a needle on the end and dial it up. I watched my brother do syringes far more dextrose needed surely.

 

[Jaylee]

I’m sorry JMK1954 I do not understand how syringes would be easier. What cartridges in and out on insulin pens? All you have to do is put a needle on the end and dial it up. I watched my brother do syringes far more dextrose needed surely.

Hi,

You work with what works for you.. Someone with dexterity issues could have issues gripping the dial up on a pen?

There was a pen (no longer made.) called the "Autopen 24" which helped overcome dexterity problems with an additional "cap" that gripped the dial up making it easier to grip the dial up. There was also an extension that could be clipped to the spring loaded release that pushed the ram down the barrel of the insulin cartridge..
I used the pen years ago for the basal, though did not need the attachments which came in every box.

I've never seen this since with any other pen issued..

 

[LooperCat]

I’m sorry JMK1954 I do not understand how syringes would be easier. What cartridges in and out on insulin pens? All you have to do is put a needle on the end and dial it up. I watched my brother do syringes far more dextrose needed surely.

Refillable pens have cartridges, I used them until getting my pump.

 

[Jaylee]

Refillable pens have cartridges, I used them until getting my pump.

Quite correct. & fitting those needles could be a problem for the less dexterous too.

 

[therower]

I use refillable cartridge pens for Novorapid and disposable pens for Lantus. Helps with not mixing them up.
I have to admit that I don’t have a problem with the pens BUT it’s the needles that annoy and frustrate the most. Especially the cheaper versions.
I’ve still got a few bags of the old plastic syringes just in case of emergencies.
Like many things in life....technology doesn’t necessarily = easier or better.
I can fully understand where you’re coming from Bill. Not so much diabetes technology but cars and phones that do for me. I still have to get the manual out twice a year to reset clock in car and I still somehow manage to clear the trip mileage at the same time.

 

[rochari]

If the pen fills have a rubber bung, like the traditional vials (Can you tell, I'm not an insulin user), surely you could use syringes and needles? I know some people who pump use syringes as a back up, for pump failures, rather than keep a supply of pens that might go out of date without ever seeing the light of day.

I have a feeling @Kim Possible might do this.

Kim, apologies if I mis-remembered.

DCUKMod, why the heck didn't I think of this? Yes, the cartridge does indeed have the rubber bung and I never gave a thought to being able to draw insulin from it into a syringe. Our surgeries don't open here until Friday when I will phone and make an appointment with my GP and go see him.

Thanks to all who mentioned it in this thread. Blindingly obvious but it completely passed me by. I blame my age! Feeling better about all of this already. Bill

 

[DCUKMod]

DCUKMod, why the heck didn't I think of this? Yes, the cartridge does indeed have the rubber bung and I never gave a thought to being able to draw insulin from it into a syringe. Our surgeries don't open here until Friday when I will phone and make an appointment with my GP and go see him.

Thanks to all who mentioned it in this thread. Blindingly obvious but it completely passed me by. I blame my age! Feeling better about all of this already. Bill

Rochari - I don't want to be telling a T1 how to do their thing, but you may need a heftier gauge needle for drawing up the insulin, than taking it - just floating that really.

I hope you get it sorted out to achieve what you want and need.

 

[rochari]

I use refillable cartridge pens for Novorapid and disposable pens for Lantus. Helps with not mixing them up.
I have to admit that I don’t have a problem with the pens BUT it’s the needles that annoy and frustrate the most. Especially the cheaper versions.
I’ve still got a few bags of the old plastic syringes just in case of emergencies.
Like many things in life....technology doesn’t necessarily = easier or better.
I can fully understand where you’re coming from Bill. Not so much diabetes technology but cars and phones that do for me. I still have to get the manual out twice a year to reset clock in car and I still somehow manage to clear the trip mileage at the same time.

therower, I'm with you regarding technology. I still use a desktop, my phone isn't smart and I've never owned a tablet. I used to be OK with all the tech stuff then all of a sudden it all got very complicated. Being honest, years ago it was a blessing when I retired because of the computer system there - I found it impossible to keep up with the changes. My youngest's youngest is 11yo and she's my first port of call when I need help. Bless her, she's fixed every problem I've had. Bill

 

[Jaylee]

DCUKMod, why the heck didn't I think of this? Yes, the cartridge does indeed have the rubber bung and I never gave a thought to being able to draw insulin from it into a syringe. Our surgeries don't open here until Friday when I will phone and make an appointment with my GP and go see him.

Thanks to all who mentioned it in this thread. Blindingly obvious but it completely passed me by. I blame my age! Feeling better about all of this already. Bill

Hi @rochari ,

In therory this can be done. Drawing up from the membrane at the top of the pen cartridge.
However you may need to be carful replacing the pressure vacuume in the pen cartridge? Which could dislodge the rubber bung at the other end..

 

[rochari]

Rochari - I don't want to be telling a T1 how to do their thing, but you may need a heftier gauge needle for drawing up the insulin, than taking it - just floating that really.

I hope you get it sorted out to achieve what you want and need.

Yes I agree DCUKMod. I might run past my doctor going back to the 'old way' of doing it. A thicker longer needle to draw up the insulin then change to the shorter thinner one for injecting it. It'll be like going back in time but I am more than OK with that. Again, many thanks. Bill

 

[rochari]

Hi @rochari ,

In therory this can be done. Drawing up from the membrane at the top of the pen cartridge.
However you may need to be carful replacing the pressure vacuume in the pen cartridge? Which could dislodge the rubber bung at the other end..

Ah ok, Jaylee and thank you. I'll speak to my GP about this. Bill

 

[Jaylee]

Ah ok, Jaylee and thank you. I'll speak to my GP about this. Bill

No problem Bill.

I don't see drawing up small amounts of insulin at a time, (2 maybe 4u?) out of the cartridge a problem. But unlike a classic vial. The vacuume made regarding the units removed could suck the bung & membrane in at both ends? As opposed to pulling just the membrane on an old school vial.?
One would need to create an aproximate equal pressure. Worth a try? The bung at the "blunt end" of the cartridge may compensate by moving anyway??

I've never tried it with a cartridge. Just highlighting a possible snag.

Edited to add. If you use U100 insulin? Make sure the syringe accommodates these measurements in the unit markings..

 

[LooperCat]

I often use pens and cartridges as vials to fill my pump, as they occasionally get put on my prescription by mistake. The rubber bung at the open end moves in as you withdraw insulin, there’s no need to replace the insulin with air like you do with a vial. In fact, DON’T put air in, as the much thinner walls can break, unlike with vials. Just suck out what you need.

 

[Jaylee]

I often use pens and cartridges as vials to fill my pump, as they occasionally get put on my prescription by mistake. The rubber bung at the open end moves in as you withdraw insulin, there’s no need to replace the insulin with air like you do with a vial. In fact, DON’T put air in, as the much thinner walls can break, unlike with vials. Just suck out what you need.

Nice one! Thanks @LooperCat .

Sorry, there ain't no cheers button.

 

[rochari]

No problem Bill.

I don't see drawing up small amounts of insulin at a time, (2 maybe 4u?) out of the cartridge a problem. But unlike a classic vial. The vacuume made regarding the units removed could suck the bung & membrane in at both ends? As opposed to pulling just the membrane on an old school vial.?
One would need to create an aproximate equal pressure. Worth a try? The bung at the "blunt end" of the cartridge may compensate by moving anyway??

I've never tried it with a cartridge. Just highlighting a possible snag.

Edited to add. If you use U100 insulin? Make sure the syringe accommodates these measurements in the unit markings..

Thank you Jaylee and oh yes, it is worth a try. I'm weary of the stress the pen causes me sometimes and things need to change. Yes, the insulin is U100 and I'll make sure the syringe will be too. Long gone are the days of U40 and U80 although I wonder if those are still produced and used somewhere in this wide-world.! That transfer over for those on insulin in the UK was another bit of a mess with much confusion. I remember it all so well. Bill

 

[rochari]

I often use pens and cartridges as vials to fill my pump, as they occasionally get put on my prescription by mistake. The rubber bung at the open end moves in as you withdraw insulin, there’s no need to replace the insulin with air like you do with a vial. In fact, DON’T put air in, as the much thinner walls can break, unlike with vials. Just suck out what you need.

Thank you very much LooperCat. I'd completely forgotten that I used to inject air into the insulin bottle equal to what I was going to draw down and following on from what you say I definitely will not do it with the pen cartridge. Your advice is appreciated. Bill

 

[Jaylee]

Thank you Jaylee and oh yes, it is worth a try. I'm weary of the stress the pen causes me sometimes and things need to change. Yes, the insulin is U100 and I'll make sure the syringe will be too. Long gone are the days of U40 and U80 although I wonder if those are still produced and used somewhere in this wide-world.! That transfer over for those on insulin in the UK was another bit of a mess with much confusion. I remember it all so well. Bill

U40? Yep, can still be obtained. I believe it goes by the brand name of "Vetsulin?"