High bg number 5 hours after breakfast

Ursro

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Hi all,
My first post. I’ve been diabetic for more than 12 years now and started medication about 7 years back. I am now on 80 mg gliclazide in the morning and evening each, combined with 500 mg metaformin three times a day.

today morning readings before and after 2 hours of breakfast were 6 and 6.5. Then I had a snack of spinach and cheese pastry. 3 hours after, it was 10. This happened yesterday also after eating a snack of peanut butter sandwich. I did have 3 to 4 cups of coffee with cream after breakfast on both days.

has anyone had similar experience?

I don’t know how I can control the mid morning spike. I think the early morning spike is controlled by gliclazide and metformin.

Any thoughts on this are highly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
I’d say it’s the pastry and bread doing it. Have you always used medication to control it? Have you ever tried reducing carbs? It’s how most of us type 2 in here control ours, avoiding reducing or eliminating medication as a result.
 
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Ursro

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
I’d say it’s the pastry and bread doing it. Have you always used medication to control it? Have you ever tried reducing carbs? It’s how most of us type 2 in here control ours, avoiding reducing or eliminating medication as a result.
I’ve had medication for 7 years. I’ve reduced lot of carbs but looks like I’ve to reduce more. I will dig up some alternatives to my current snacks.
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Pastry and bread are high carb. Having more filling meals will avoid the need to snack, as snacking keeps bgl and insulin levels raised in type 2 - neither of which is desirable.

Here’s some links to give you inspiration and ideas. There’s a lot so take them one at a time and come back and ask any questions you might have.


Can I suggest you take a good look at LCHF ie low carb higher fat (than typically recommended) methods of eating (keto is just a version of this). It’s how an awful lot of us get our blood sugar levels under control and for some even eliminate medications and achieve remission and also reduce or improve complications. It is often the easiest and most sustainable form of weight loss for a type 2 if you need that. Other conditions often improve including but not limited to blood pressure, joint pain, inflammation, PCOS, and despite the dire warnings of the last few decades it improves cholesterol for most, yes improves cholesterol. Some jump right on it, others edge their toes in a bit at a time. Be aware the the USA count carbs differently so be aware if you look at their counting, recipes or products. They include fibre in their count we don’t. So if it’s USA stuff deduct the fibre to get our figures. (Fibre isn’t generally digested thus doesn’t get counted)


Try clicking these links for more detailed explanations that are well worth readings.


http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.26870/


https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog/jokalsbeek.401801/ for info including low carb made simple


And https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/success-stories-and-testimonials.43/ to show it really works and for motivation


and https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/ for food ideas


also https://www.dietdoctor.com/ for more food ideas and general info of carb content of foods. Excellent site and first port of call for many getting their head round low carb.


Lots of other websites for recipes out there too. Just use the term low carb or keto with whatever you fancy.


Also it’s very important to be able to check for yourself what’s happening so you can make the necessary adjustments day to day and meal by meal rather than wait 3, 6 or even 12 months and then have no idea what had what effect. It also helps keep an eye out that any meds are working appropriately not too much or too little. Getting a blood glucose meter is the only way to do this (no matter what contradictory advice you may have heard - it’s usually budget based rather than anything more scientific). Test before a meal and 2hrs later hoping for a rise of 2mmol or less. More and the carbs eaten were too many! Please ask if you want any guidance on this.


IMPORTANT FOR ANYONE ON DIABETIC MEDS (other than metformin): if you lower your carbs then any glucose lowering meds or insulin increasing meds may need to be adjusted accordingly to make sure you aren’t taking more than your new diet requires. It can cause a hypo if you have more gliclazide or insulin etc than your new carb intake requires. (This is not a concern for metformin on its own). Keep a very close eye on your numbers and do this with your dr’s knowledge so they can reduce medication accordingly. Please don’t be put off by an ill informed out dated rubbishing of low carb diets or being told you should eat carbs to match meds, it should be the other way around. Low carb is endorsed by the NHS and the ADA as an effective method of control, even if the practice staff don’t realise that yet.
 

Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Check on the number of grams of carbohydrate you ate and you'll most likely see where the high reading came from.
Has no one ever explained that diabetes is the inability to deal with carbohydrate - that is starch and sugar - or what the consequences could be if you did not reduce them down to what you can cope with, medicated or not?
 

ianf0ster

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I agree with the advice above. If possible Low Carb and eat sufficient at each meal so that you have no need to snack.
If you must snack, then snack with low carbs: Nuts are good for this if you need carbs because of your medication.

You say that you are taking glic - so unfortunately you need to be careful to avoid hypos if you drastically cut carbs!

Several members, even many years after T2 D diagnosis have been able to either come off glic and/or insulin , or reduce their dose by using a Low Carb 'Way Of Eating'. However this can't be done without some cooperation from your Health Care Professionals, many of whom may prefer you to eat to your medication than to medicate to your needs.

I wish you luck in dealing with it.
 

Ursro

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Thanks everyone. One more clarification - Is there any thought on bg effect in relation to fasting? I read somewhere that fasting increases bg. I want to try not eating between meals or maybe even skip breakfast. I tried skipping snacks in the past but ended up having a bigger appetite/tiredness. Unfortunately I didn’t measure with my meter when I tried that. I want to experiment again but some foresight would be nice.
 

ianf0ster

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There is no conclusive evidence about fasting and BG. The unfortunate truth is that we are all different. My normal overnight fasting 'Dawn Phenomenon' has never been too bad - meaning that even at the very worst my morning BG (even if I overdid the carbs a little the previous night) is still in single figures. But that isn't the case for everybody.

For me after a normal 12hr overnight 'fast' and then a no-carb (2 boiled eggs) breakfast, my BG is either lower than before Breakfast, or the same as before breakfast.
However if I don't feel hungry and so continue my fast until a late lunchtime, my BG doesn't go up (unlike several members). My definition of a fast is different to some, in that for me a fast means zero macro nutrients - so straight green or black tea or black coffee is allowed, but not coffee with cream/MCTs or any fat, protein or carbs.
 
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Lotties

Well-Known Member
Messages
317
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Thanks everyone. One more clarification - Is there any thought on bg effect in relation to fasting? I read somewhere that fasting increases bg. I want to try not eating between meals or maybe even skip breakfast. I tried skipping snacks in the past but ended up having a bigger appetite/tiredness. Unfortunately I didn’t measure with my meter when I tried that. I want to experiment again but some foresight would be nice.
I find again as Ian said just for me, if I eat too many carbs even if only from green veg (~40-50g at a meal instead of 20g) I get hungry quicker.
Staying very fat adapted allows me to have long periods where I don't feel the urge to eat even if I may think I'm hungry. I still have bag of Xmas sweets sitting visible in from of my monitor at work unopened. It's been 4 weeks now. I fasted 4 days last week and am 1 day into a 3 day fast now. It's hard-core January ;)
I don't recommend fasting more than 16:8 until you're fat adapted; that's just starving yourself. YMMV.
My BG after 12hrs of not eating @10am was 6.5 (NHS lab) in October. Now it varies between 5.2 on a really good morning and always under 6.5 even by 0.1 or 0.2.
EDIT Btw, I only fasted once last year in Sept for 4 days but did 20g low carb OMAD for most of the rest of the time except Xmas and a couple of celebration meals.
 
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Caeseji

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Messages
658
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Self-fellating idiots that don't at all look at other people's views
Thanks everyone. One more clarification - Is there any thought on bg effect in relation to fasting? I read somewhere that fasting increases bg. I want to try not eating between meals or maybe even skip breakfast. I tried skipping snacks in the past but ended up having a bigger appetite/tiredness. Unfortunately I didn’t measure with my meter when I tried that. I want to experiment again but some foresight would be nice.

+1 to what @Lotties and @ianf0ster said, I’ve found that a decent meal before fasting always keeps me topped up now I’m adapted. I was fasting from 7pm to 5pm for today because I was just not hungry at all and busy with induction at my new job so it really depends on how well you do with a LCHF diet. I find I prefer to be faster at work so I don’t run down at all, I tend to be a bit more alert buuuuut ymv. As a base my fasting bloods are around 4-5 in a morning these day’s.
 

Lotties

Well-Known Member
Messages
317
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
+1 to what @Lotties and @ianf0ster said, I’ve found that a decent meal before fasting always keeps me topped up now I’m adapted. I was fasting from 7pm to 5pm for today because I was just not hungry at all and busy with induction at my new job so it really depends on how well you do with a LCHF diet. I find I prefer to be faster at work so I don’t run down at all, I tend to be a bit more alert buuuuut ymv. As a base my fasting bloods are around 4-5 in a morning these day’s.
Great fastIng numbers!!
 

alphagemini

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Don't have diabetes
Hi all,
My first post. I’ve been diabetic for more than 12 years now and started medication about 7 years back. I am now on 80 mg gliclazide in the morning and evening each, combined with 500 mg metaformin three times a day.

today morning readings before and after 2 hours of breakfast were 6 and 6.5. Then I had a snack of spinach and cheese pastry. 3 hours after, it was 10. This happened yesterday also after eating a snack of peanut butter sandwich. I did have 3 to 4 cups of coffee with cream after breakfast on both days.

has anyone had similar experience?

I don’t know how I can control the mid morning spike. I think the early morning spike is controlled by gliclazide and metformin.

Any thoughts on this are highly appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi, I am not supposed to be pre diabetic but recent tests I do to check have been odd. Like you I have normal fasting levels but without meds. Yesterday I ate a bowl of porridge with prunes and my bg level went through the roof and stayed high for four hours. I did another test after a protein meal without carbs and everything was normal. So what should I do, cut out carbs or take pills?
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi, I am not supposed to be pre diabetic but recent tests I do to check have been odd. Like you I have normal fasting levels but without meds. Yesterday I ate a bowl of porridge with prunes and my bg level went through the roof and stayed high for four hours. I did another test after a protein meal without carbs and everything was normal. So what should I do, cut out carbs or take pills?
Cut the carbs down. It won’t hurt anyone to reduce them a bit and may save a lot of people. Why take pills if you don’t need them or have other choices? Risk side effects and still not address the cause only the symptom. If you’re not even in the prediabetic range you may well not need to be too drastic even.
 

alphagemini

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Don't have diabetes
Cut the carbs down. It won’t hurt anyone to reduce them a bit and may save a lot of people. Why take pills if you don’t need them or have other choices? Risk side effects and still not address the cause only the symptom. If you’re not even in the prediabetic range you may well not need to be too drastic even.

Thanks for your quick response. I agree with you, if a problem can be resolved by diet so be it.
 

Ursro

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Hi, I am not supposed to be pre diabetic but recent tests I do to check have been odd. Like you I have normal fasting levels but without meds. Yesterday I ate a bowl of porridge with prunes and my bg level went through the roof and stayed high for four hours. I did another test after a protein meal without carbs and everything was normal. So what should I do, cut out carbs or take pills?
As @HSSS said, it’s better to cut carbs. Like you I used to have high levels after eating porridge. So I switched to eggs and boiled veggies in the morning. Now I want to cut out more carbs from other meals and snacks in the day and looking at LCHF diet as suggested in the thread.
 

Caeseji

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Messages
658
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
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Self-fellating idiots that don't at all look at other people's views
@Caeseji I'm intrigued. In your signature you mention that your A1C is 29/ 4.8% then the line 'Still not out of the woods but I can see the end of the path.' What do you consider as being out of the woods?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, been rushed off my feet with some opens for work.

It could be taken a few ways, I consider life to be constantly wandering those forest paths following the light that comes through the trees. Sometimes you stumble off of that path and may find a new one but sometimes you get snagged on a root and fall into a darker place.

Being out of the woods could be the rather morbid concept of where we all go at the end of the woods, death. I choose to be a little more optimistic and say that is when I hit a healthy weight and my HBA1C has been in remission and under control for years not just for 10 months. When I can look in the mirror and go “Yeah, that’s me.” I’ve reached the light.
 

Ursro

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Hi all,
Below image shows my journey before and after joining the community.. not quite there yet but getting there.. still have to experiment and learn more.. thank you folks!

DEA8722D-3833-48E2-AD77-5FD024BE6A97.jpeg
 

pixie1

Well-Known Member
Messages
372
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi, I am not supposed to be pre diabetic but recent tests I do to check have been odd. Like you I have normal fasting levels but without meds. Yesterday I ate a bowl of porridge with prunes and my bg level went through the roof and stayed high for four hours. I did another test after a protein meal without carbs and everything was normal. So what should I do, cut out carbs or take pills?
Cut out the carbs, porridge and prunes will elevate blood sugars