Carnivore Corner

Annb

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300g of lamb’s liver tonight. Fried in butter and served on grated cheese in a bowl. Rough and ready, but immortality guaranteed. Haven’t eaten a plant for something like eight months now. Still breathing. Arteries haven’t yet clogged up with wax. So far so good :nurse::nailbiting:

Sounds great. Must get some lamb's liver out of the freezer for tomorrow.
 
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M

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Sounds great. Must get some lamb's liver out of the freezer for tomorrow.

I can’t get enough of the stuff. The moment it touches my tongue, my body knows it’s about to get a truck load of hardcore nutrients dumped onboard. There’s something almost primal about it. Tastes wonderful and delivers unrivalled satiety.
 
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Lotties

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Coffee & cream.
Cooked ham, uncooked ham, lemon prawns, mackerel and cheese.
Not hungry enough and worried I'm not getting enough nutrients if I continue.
Maybe more liver :)
 
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M

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As I continue with the carnivore way of life, I'm noticing a fascinating trend.

Some who may be familiar with my past ramblings might recall that my protein tolerance, as it pertains to glucose excursions, was not very high. As an ex-TOFI unable to ever gain much weight, I had cataclysmic insulin resistance, and thus had to lean more toward fat than protein, else I would see rising fasting glucose. This steadily improved over time, but when I started carnivore I obviously had to be mindful.

Fast forward several [more] months and I"m now noticing that protein seems to have virtually no impact. At the same time - and this is the fascinating part for me - I am increasingly needing protein for satiety in lockstep with my taste for fat diminishing. So it seems my body now favours increased protein and reduced fat (relatively) and is adjusting my appetite accordingly. The human body is mind-blowing :wideyed:

In terms of glucose trends, my average numbers are now actually ever so slightly higher than in previous months, but my glucostability is absolutely off the charts ridiculous. It is always between 5.0-5.4 day or night, rain or shine, irrespective of anything. It used to be between 4.0-6.0, so my minimum numbers are up, but the max is down, and the stability is quite frankly laughable.

Raw salted fillet for dinner, so must dash :D

TLDR; carnivore can offer comedy flatlined glucose.
 

lucylocket61

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6,435
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As I continue with the carnivore way of life, I'm noticing a fascinating trend.

Some who may be familiar with my past ramblings might recall that my protein tolerance, as it pertains to glucose excursions, was not very high. As an ex-TOFI unable to ever gain much weight, I had cataclysmic insulin resistance, and thus had to lean more toward fat than protein, else I would see rising fasting glucose. This steadily improved over time, but when I started carnivore I obviously had to be mindful.

Fast forward several [more] months and I"m now noticing that protein seems to have virtually no impact. At the same time - and this is the fascinating part for me - I am increasingly needing protein for satiety in lockstep with my taste for fat diminishing. So it seems my body now favours increased protein and reduced fat (relatively) and is adjusting my appetite accordingly. The human body is mind-blowing :wideyed:

In terms of glucose trends, my average numbers are now actually ever so slightly higher than in previous months, but my glucostability is absolutely off the charts ridiculous. It is always between 5.0-5.4 day or night, rain or shine, irrespective of anything. It used to be between 4.0-6.0, so my minimum numbers are up, but the max is down, and the stability is quite frankly laughable.

Raw salted fillet for dinner, so must dash :D

TLDR; carnivore can offer comedy flatlined glucose.
I now have images of Jeff Goldberg turning into the Fly, except it's you turning into a wolf
 

Gazzamius

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Certainly agree with most of that @Gazzamius

the fact we have too look deeper as the creaks and groans show up more regularly, sum s it up nicely.

(apart from the mr atkins* (i came via the forum to LCHF)..)

sure some young uns listen, but it gets real, REAL quick :woot:.. when it's directly affecting our day to day lives,
rather then a... "in 20 years time you could.."..type fashion.

I too lost weight, improved all my blood metrics AND got healthier then i have been for years..
while eating a diet that Could, Would, Should kill me...Lol..

medical miracle, me :D.....if wasn't for all the millions of other copycats out there...:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

so Viva La Bacon.
Long may it reign.
finding this difficult at the moment. i gave up alcohol beginning of last December 2019. my blood glucose was getting great. 7 mmols. the last 2 weeks in January 2020. i cannot keep my glucose below 12 mmols. no matter how much i inject insulin.. tried over 100 units x twice per day. still the same even injected 150 units. (nothing changed) getting very worried. as i dont drink anymore, and eat very low carb. mainly cruciferous veggies and good meat. nothing processed. seeing my diabetic nurse next week. lets see what she has to say. **** me I hate diabees.
 

Oldvatr

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8,470
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Tablets (oral)
finding this difficult at the moment. i gave up alcohol beginning of last December 2019. my blood glucose was getting great. 7 mmols. the last 2 weeks in January 2020. i cannot keep my glucose below 12 mmols. no matter how much i inject insulin.. tried over 100 units x twice per day. still the same even injected 150 units. (nothing changed) getting very worried. as i dont drink anymore, and eat very low carb. mainly cruciferous veggies and good meat. nothing processed. seeing my diabetic nurse next week. lets see what she has to say. **** me I hate diabees.
I am speaking as a layman here, and I am not medically qualified. But one thing I recognise is that alcohol consumption over a sustained period will lead to a buildup of liver fat. Couple your recent decision to give it a miss, now I suspect your body is starting to get rid of that fat especially if you are following a low carb diet. Until it has emptied the fuel tank, then it will be dumping glucose and lipids into your bloodstream, and this may be what you are seeing. If this is actually what is happeneing then it should settle down so long as you keep off the juice, and keep low carbing. Good Luck with the HCP.
 

DCUKMod

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I reversed my Type 2
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finding this difficult at the moment. i gave up alcohol beginning of last December 2019. my blood glucose was getting great. 7 mmols. the last 2 weeks in January 2020. i cannot keep my glucose below 12 mmols. no matter how much i inject insulin.. tried over 100 units x twice per day. still the same even injected 150 units. (nothing changed) getting very worried. as i dont drink anymore, and eat very low carb. mainly cruciferous veggies and good meat. nothing processed. seeing my diabetic nurse next week. lets see what she has to say. **** me I hate diabees.

Gazzamius, I'd be inclined to say it's early days still for your body acclimatising to its new way of living. I don't know what your numbers were, but you spoke implying your 7s were an improvement over previous numbers?

Our bodies like to run to routines, so will do what they can to stabilise things like blood sugars, when things changed.

Part of me says, in your shoes, I'd ride it out a little longer, and part of me says, I'd want to ride it out, but I'd also want to utilise the forthcoming appointment to get some more tests done, just to check your pancreas and so on, is still working well.

Sometimes change brings a temporary chaos.
 

Lotties

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317
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Hi all.
Although we focus on keeping blood sugar rises to a minimum and they are easy to measure, reducing circulating insulin levels seems to be advisable.
Processing carbohydrates raises blood glucose levels necessitating a release of insulin to prevent them rising too high. Protein also promotes insulin release, albeit on a slower timescale.
Would a high protein diet promote larger exposure to insulin (area under the curve) preventing many of the benefits of lower insulin levels on a low carb diet?
Fasting reduces insulin levels considerably as there is no endogenous glucose or protein to process so this would be useful to ease themail load on the pancreas but not a high protein diet, to me.
A lot of carnivore diet sites promote large quantities of protein and this seems to hide this insulin fact.
Still confused but moving towards trying to achieve weightloss by limiting protein to around 60-70g and minimising carbs (almost zero) with significant periods of fasting (IF or TRE or 3-day)
Is this a plan likely to succeed?
 

Brunneria

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Hi all.
Although we focus on keeping blood sugar rises to a minimum and they are easy to measure, reducing circulating insulin levels seems to be advisable.
Processing carbohydrates raises blood glucose levels necessitating a release of insulin to prevent them rising too high. Protein also promotes insulin release, albeit on a slower timescale.
Would a high protein diet promote larger exposure to insulin (area under the curve) preventing many of the benefits of lower insulin levels on a low carb diet?
Fasting reduces insulin levels considerably as there is no endogenous glucose or protein to process so this would be useful to ease themail load on the pancreas but not a high protein diet, to me.
A lot of carnivore diet sites promote large quantities of protein and this seems to hide this insulin fact.
Still confused but moving towards trying to achieve weightloss by limiting protein to around 60-70g and minimising carbs (almost zero) with significant periods of fasting (IF or TRE or 3-day)
Is this a plan likely to succeed?

I went through exactly the same thought process and tried it for months.
Have ended up keto carnivore rather than all-the-meat-you-can-eat-carnivore.
Definitely feel better when my fat-protein macros are at a keto balance.

However, despite every carnivore site EVER declaring that eating masses of carni foods will result in awesomely amazing natural and effortless (insert your superlatives of choice, yawn) weight loss, I have not lost any weight. Extended fasting is not as comfortable for me as other ppl to seem to find it, so I just do daily IF, usually 16/8, sometimes 20/24.

Par for the course for me though.
I just shrugged and put the lack of weight loss down to my personal hormonal and insulin resistance situation (which is not typical, and too boring for me to bother to type out, yet again ;) ).

Despite this, I love carnivore, am v happy on it, and prefer eating this way, so happily trundle on. :D
 
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Lotties

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I went through exactly the same thought process and tried it for months.
Have ended up keto carnivore rather than all-the-meat-you-can-eat-carnivore.
Definitely feel better when my fat-protein macros are at a keto balance.

However, despite every carnivore site EVER declaring that eating masses of carni foods will result in awesomely amazing natural and effortless (insert your superlatives of choice, yawn) weight loss, I have not lost any weight. Extended fasting is not as comfortable for me as other ppl to seem to find it, so I just do daily IF, usually 16/8, sometimes 20/24.

Par for the course for me though.
I just shrugged and put the lack of weight loss down to my personal hormonal and insulin resistance situation (which is not typical, and too boring for me to bother to type out, yet again ;) ).

Despite this, I love carnivore, am v happy on it, and prefer eating this way, so happily trundle on. :D
Thanks. Very helpful. One does have to dig into the science to validate the blogosphere and anectdotal evidence - all is not simple.
I'm not losing weight either :) ; an aim but not a focus atm.
After only a couple of days of lots of protein, I'm massively up in scale weight (glycogen storage possibly but don't care why) so will be planning some more tweaks to food routine. Also some walking.
Protein info source.
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm
 

Brunneria

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Thanks. Very helpful. One does have to dig into the science to validate the blogosphere and anectdotal evidence - all is not simple.
I'm not losing weight either :) ; an aim but not a focus atm.
After only a couple of days of lots of protein, I'm massively up in scale weight (glycogen storage possibly but don't care why) so will be planning some more tweaks to food routine. Also some walking.
Protein info source.
http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm

Yeah, you will find quite a lot of 'veteran worship' and recounting of 'longterm experiences' on the various carni blogs and FB groups. I signed up for a few, and left quite quickly when I noticed how many newbies were setting themselves up as experts just because they could quote 'veterans'. Real life is a little more complex than parroting someone else. :hilarious:

What you will find though is a recurring idea that when some people start carnivore, their bodies gain a bit of weight.
This is usually touted as 'healing' after 'years of malnutrition and eating the wrong stuff' and 'once you give your body a chance to heal, it won't hold onto food so much, and your weight will naturally and effortlessly start to fall'.

No idea whether there is any truth in that or not.
2 years of carni, much 'healed' gut issues, much less inflammation' and I still gain with huge protein portions. So it ain't true for me.

I had some interesting discussion with a lady on another site (ketodudes) who had a similar experience. She posted t say that she gained 30 pounds in 6 weeks when starting carnivore. Felt great. Had everyone telling her 'don't worry it is just "healing" and stick with it'.
But at that rate of gain she had had enough, and went back to keto with veg - and the weight gain stopped.
Took her months to scrape her weight down to her starting weight again.

My own weight only fluctuates from carb intake (which includes gluconeogenesis) and fluid retention.
For me, minimal (or zero) carbs means I can eat lots of keto food and not gain, whereas a few too many g of carbs/protein and the weight starts to pile on like toffee on an apple. So it is all about the insulin resistance, for me. Hence my keto carni, not the all you can eat buffet carni. However, since even fasting and zero carbs do not reduce my IR enough, my body hangs on to the weight I have. At least, that is my working theory. I would need a clued up endocrinologist who supported Fung and keto and Carni, with a limitless budget for tests to check things thoroughly.
 
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Antje77

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Meaty question for all you experts on this thread: I've ordered an ox tail and I'll have it by next tuesday :hungry:
I've only eaten ox tail once, and never prepared one (or even seen one except the one in the lovely stew I had, but I only saw it after it was prepared in that case).
I had the choice between buying a whole tail (approximately 3 pounds, according to the butcher) or no tail. That's a lot of meat to waste if I do it wrong, so I want to get it right the first time.
So what do I do with it to make a wonderful stew, and even more important, what should I not do in any case?

Me being nothing near carnivore, tips involving vegetables are perfectly fine.
I have a stove-top and one of those round things you can use under your pot to make the heat less intense and spread it more equally under the pot, I have a working oven (no grill), I have one of those (but not the horrifying ceramic dog!), and a microwave.
So what do I do with my tail?
$_84.JPG
 

bulkbiker

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Meaty question for all you experts on this thread: I've ordered an ox tail and I'll have it by next tuesday :hungry:
I've only eaten ox tail once, and never prepared one (or even seen one except the one in the lovely stew I had, but I only saw it after it was prepared in that case).
I had the choice between buying a whole tail (approximately 3 pounds, according to the butcher) or no tail. That's a lot of meat to waste if I do it wrong, so I want to get it right the first time.
So what do I do with it to make a wonderful stew, and even more important, what should I not do in any case?

Me being nothing near carnivore, tips involving vegetables are perfectly fine.
I have a stove-top and one of those round things you can use under your pot to make the heat less intense and spread it more equally under the pot, I have a working oven (no grill), I have one of those (but not the horrifying ceramic dog!), and a microwave.
So what do I do with my tail?
$_84.JPG
I cook mine low and slow in the oven in a casserole with some stock (bone broth) liquidand maybe onion and garlic with a chilli or two for heat. About 6 hours at 120 C.

It should come chopped up like this

Screenshot 2020-01-28 at 17.53.39.png
 

Hotpepper20000

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Meaty question for all you experts on this thread: I've ordered an ox tail and I'll have it by next tuesday :hungry:
I've only eaten ox tail once, and never prepared one (or even seen one except the one in the lovely stew I had, but I only saw it after it was prepared in that case).
I had the choice between buying a whole tail (approximately 3 pounds, according to the butcher) or no tail. That's a lot of meat to waste if I do it wrong, so I want to get it right the first time.
So what do I do with it to make a wonderful stew, and even more important, what should I not do in any case?

Me being nothing near carnivore, tips involving vegetables are perfectly fine.
I have a stove-top and one of those round things you can use under your pot to make the heat less intense and spread it more equally under the pot, I have a working oven (no grill), I have one of those (but not the horrifying ceramic dog!), and a microwave.
So what do I do with my tail?
$_84.JPG
I would put it in a large Dutch oven.
Thinly slice onions and garlic put the meat on top. Salt and pepper. Maybe a Bay leaf or two. And put it in the oven for 8-10’hours on low Covered.
 

Goonergal

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@Antje77 I love oxtail.

My method is very simple - season, sear, stick in a slow cooker with minimal juices and leave for around 10-11 hours. I use chunks on the bone. Not sure how long it would take in the regular gas oven, but would suggest that over the stove top. If you want to add veg, I’d suggest asking for recipes on the low carb ‘what have you eaten today’ thread. Some serious cooks on there. I’ll look for some pics to post here too.

Editing to add a pic

5D55D239-F33A-4919-9BAB-7B60D182154C.jpeg
 
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Brunneria

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Meaty question for all you experts on this thread: I've ordered an ox tail and I'll have it by next tuesday :hungry:
I've only eaten ox tail once, and never prepared one (or even seen one except the one in the lovely stew I had, but I only saw it after it was prepared in that case).
I had the choice between buying a whole tail (approximately 3 pounds, according to the butcher) or no tail. That's a lot of meat to waste if I do it wrong, so I want to get it right the first time.
So what do I do with it to make a wonderful stew, and even more important, what should I not do in any case?

Me being nothing near carnivore, tips involving vegetables are perfectly fine.
I have a stove-top and one of those round things you can use under your pot to make the heat less intense and spread it more equally under the pot, I have a working oven (no grill), I have one of those (but not the horrifying ceramic dog!), and a microwave.
So what do I do with my tail?
$_84.JPG

It is (at heart) just a basic stew/casserole and does best with very slow, very gentle cooking.

So if you want veg, have at it. Just like a normal casserole.

If I were you, I would get the butcher to cut the tail up into pieces (individual vertebrae).
Then I would brown them and remove from pan.
Then I would throw in some chopped onion and garlic and cook them til soft and slightly caramelised.
Then return the meat to the pan, with enough liquid (stock, or wine, or bone broth, or beer, or whatever liquid or combo you choose) and any root veg you may want to have.
Then cook as slowly and gently as you can, until the meat is literally falling off the bones, and the cartilage at the joints is soft and melting.
Then enjoy.

I leave it entirely up to you when you want to add any veg that you like. I am busily forgetting how to cook veg ( :D:D:D) but suggest that for your first Oxtail Experience you keep it fairly simple, to let the flavour shine through.

If you dislike piles of bones on the plate, you can cook it all, let it cool, fish the bones out, and then reheat it to serve.
 

Antje77

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I cook mine low and slow in the oven in a casserole with some stock (bone broth) liquidand maybe onion and garlic with a chilli or two for heat. About 6 hours at 120 C.
I need to try if my oven will go so low in heat, but I'm afraid not It's a gas stove, at least 70 years old...
It should come chopped up like this
I hope it does! When talking to the butcher I got the impression I would get a complete tail, but we'll see!
If you want to add veg, I’d suggest asking for recipes on the low carb ‘what have you eaten today’ thread. Some serious cooks on there. I’ll look for some pics to post here too.
Good idea, I'll have a look there as well, although I'm already getting very useful tips here, it's very much appreciated!