Mastering diabetes

[HSSS]

OK folks. Drum roll please.............after lots of research into what diabetes reversal program I've decided to try and having explained earlier why carnivore, keto, and low carb were options I had to rule out, it came down to choosing between the ones that offered good diet options for a vegetarian like me, living in Australia

They were narrowed down to; the Mastering Diabetes online program in the US https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/plans/diy-full/ the Dr Fuhrman 20 day quickstart program (online) one also in the US https://www.drfuhrman.com/elearning...uick-start-program-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes and the Australian one called The Lime Program https://www.reversediabetes.com.au/index.htm There was also another one called E4 Diabetes Solutions in the US https://alive.e4.io/e4-alive-simple...t=2001sspc&utm_term=ff&contactId=~Contact.Id~

In the end I chose the Aussie one. While it wasn't the cheapest, being local was good, but the clincher for me was the offer of fully refunding the coaching fees if it didn't get the results from an agreed coaching plan. The E4 one had a similar offer but was going to get pretty expensive and seemed to be doing much the same as the Lime Program. Starts off with a batch of 14 blood tests and goes from there. let's see what happens and thanks for helping me reach this decision with some robust feedback and good arguments suggesting various options.

Let us know how it goes please. More data and experiences are always good to hear, even if we sound sceptical of your chosen path. The reason I’m currently welded to low carb is because I genuinely believe it works best but always open to finding something even better. (Though for me it’d take a lot of convincing on the existing options)

Any reason why you felt the need to have a “paid for” commercial program rather than follow whichever principles you have decided are the thing to try first?

 

[Mr_Pot]

OK folks. Drum roll please.............after lots of research into what diabetes reversal program I've decided to try and having explained earlier why carnivore, keto, and low carb were options I had to rule out, it came down to choosing between the ones that offered good diet options for a vegetarian like me, living in Australia

They were narrowed down to; the Mastering Diabetes online program in the US https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/plans/diy-full/ the Dr Fuhrman 20 day quickstart program (online) one also in the US https://www.drfuhrman.com/elearning...uick-start-program-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes and the Australian one called The Lime Program https://www.reversediabetes.com.au/index.htm There was also another one called E4 Diabetes Solutions in the US https://alive.e4.io/e4-alive-simple...t=2001sspc&utm_term=ff&contactId=~Contact.Id~

In the end I chose the Aussie one. While it wasn't the cheapest, being local was good, but the clincher for me was the offer of fully refunding the coaching fees if it didn't get the results from an agreed coaching plan. The E4 one had a similar offer but was going to get pretty expensive and seemed to be doing much the same as the Lime Program. Starts off with a batch of 14 blood tests and goes from there. let's see what happens and thanks for helping me reach this decision with some robust feedback and good arguments suggesting various options.

You seem to be approaching this in most complex way possible. When I was diagnosed, the next day I gave up anything actually sweet and cut down or cut out the main carbs. I had non-diabetic HbA1c and good BMI within 4 months. No special tests, no program to follow and nothing to pay.

 

[Walking Girl]

In which case wouldn’t they have said lowering weight and not specified carbs! They actually go on to say lowering carbs can be integrated into various ways of eating. This is in the eating patterns section not weight loss. Another section on weight management doesn’t determine which eating style just discusses the benefits of weight loss

which is why I asked for the specific reference. The ADA publishes a lot of information. None of what is in that link “endorses low carb as the most effective strategy”. In fact, the section actually starts with “Evidence suggests that there is not an ideal percentage of calories from carbohydrate, protein, and fat for people with diabetes.”

 

[HSSS]

which is why I asked for the specific reference. The ADA publishes a lot of information. None of what is in that link “endorses low carb as the most effective strategy”. In fact, the section actually starts with “Evidence suggests that there is not an ideal percentage of calories from carbohydrate, protein, and fat for people with diabetes.”

See post 36 for the actual quote. I was paraphrasing the comments in post 31 not quoting but the meaning remains the same. Less carbs.

I never said there was a specific % to be met. We all have different personal carb limits depending on our individual metabolic health - thus impossible to set a one size fits all %.

 

[Walking Girl]

See post 36 for the actual quote. I was paraphrasing the comments in post 31 not quoting but the meaning remains the same. Less carbs.

I never said there was a specific % to be met. We all have different personal carb limits depending on our individual metabolic health - thus impossible to set a one size fits all %.

You said low carb, not less carbs. Paraphrasing and mis-quoting totally out of context are really quite different things. But at least you think there is not one size that fits all, meaning I assume you believe even high carb can be healthy.

 

[HSSS]

You said low carb, not less carbs. Paraphrasing and mis-quoting totally out of context are really quite different things. But at least you think there is not one size that fits all, meaning I assume you believe even high carb can be healthy.

Now I think you are deliberately taking my words out of context to suit your own agenda. Or perhaps I am not pedantic enough in my choice of words for you. I’ve given the links and the text I was reporting. I think the meaning is clear. If you choose to read it otherwise that’s not down to me.

No I don’t think high carb is healthy for a type 2 diabetic based on the current level of knowledge and understanding. I do think how low depends on the individual. And what type of eating eg carnivore, omnivore or vegan is also up to the individual

 

[Member496333]

I would say that "low" and "less" are pretty much interchangeable in this context unless you're in training for the Semantics World Championships

 

[Mike d]

@Jim Lahey

 

[bulkbiker]

I would say that "low" and "less" are pretty much interchangeable in this context unless you're in training for the Semantics World Championships

"fewer"?

 

[John93]

curious to know exactly what parts of those quotes are untruthful and on what basis. I'm happy to challenge them on it and reply with their answer

 

[HSSS]

curious to know exactly what parts of those quotes are untruthful and on what basis. I'm happy to challenge them on it and reply with their answer

Can you clarify? As I posted most of the quotes I assume you are addressing me but I fail to understand your point. Which quotes? What untruths? Challenge who?

 

[Mike d]

Can you clarify? As I posted most of the quotes I assume you are addressing me but I fail to understand your point. Which quotes? What untruths? Challenge who?

You're not alone @HSSS

 

[John93]

Hi folks, if anyone is interested in how things have gone for me following the Aussie reversing diabetes program. I can report things have improved enormously in the space of just 2.5 weeks following their program. I decided to hit it hard and fast and took time of work to focus on it. I've been able to cut back my exercise to just a 'normal' amount of about 60 mins moderate exercise a day to keep the blood glucose levels in the non-diabetic range. The big change was the food - cant say I loved following their Karbeto diet, which is actually like a healthy (vegan) version of low carb - lots of non starchy veges and very, very low fat. (about 8-10%) It has really improved fasting and post prandial glucose levels to being non-diabetic amazingly quickly (without the mega exercise I was doing) and I'm now introducing unprocessed carbs like pasta, potato, squash, red rice and oatmeal porridge. Steering well clear of all junky processed carbs like white bread and cakes but the way its going, should be fine eating plenty of whole and unprocessed carbs at this rate. Just did an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test, which they say is the only one to worry about if you want to know whether insulin resistance is improving (which it must if you want to ever eat carbs again) and at fasting was 4.7. At 2 hrs it was 6.9 which is very pleasing. The amazing part of that was my insulin level was down to 20Mu/l to achieve the 2 hr reading. They said having low insulin levels was very important to reduce CV risk. Will do A1c test in a few months. Anyway, although not cheap, (though depends what you think is important in life) I'm very pleased with the results so far and looking forward to eating a pretty normal diet in terms of carbs although definitely no going back to junk and refined carbs, which would be problematic it seems.

Edited by moderator to remove a sales link.

 

[Indy51]

One word of caution - be very watchful with how your body reacts to oatmeal, unprocessed or otherwise - for some reason it seems to be like kryptonite for a lot of Type 2's. Sometimes even people who aren't diabetics get enormously high spikes from eating the stuff judging by some of the CGM data people have been posting on Twitter. Even small amounts can be problematic for some people. I suspect it's a microbiome thing.

Glad the regime is working for you.

 

[John93]

definitely no problems with the oatmeal. I should clarify - it is steel cut oats not rolled oats, so it is very low GI. If anyone had trouble with steel cut oats, they could even go to groats - even less processing and lower GI so it releases energy very slowly and much less likely to cause spikes but that is provided insulin resistance has improved first before introducing carbs of any kind.

Indy- out of interest - I see your OGTT results from 2012 - which were through the roof. What are they these days?

 

[Indy51]

Indy- out of interest - I see your OGTT results from 2012 - which were through the roof. What are they these days

No idea as it's not a test that is regularly performed in Australia other than for diagnosis, as in my original test. The only regular testing is A1c, usually on a 6 monthly schedule.

 

[Triffo]

I thought I’d throw my tuppence worth in as I’ve been reading all the posts with interest. We all know we’re all different, some of us have other equally serious conditions to contend with. For me it’s an inherited kidney condition called PKD (Polycystic Kidney Disease. After 2 transplants, the last of which was in 2013 I finally was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I’ve done just about everything. I’ve done well and controlled my diabetes on just cutting out sugar and a few high carb items like bananas and bread etc., then fell off the wagon big time. My next effort at control required I give up more carbs and out went the rice and pasta and milk etc. My Gliclizide was increased to 80mg a day which I got down to 40 mgs a day. Then I went to Australia to visit family last year and really did some damage. I came back and was put on 240mg Gliclizide and regularly found myself touching 12 to 15 all day every day, with no hypos. I finally went Keto with fantastic results. However I don’t appear to be following the same Keto that people here seem to be talking about. I do Lo Carb Hi Fat but veg oils are not part of it, nor is large amounts of meat and I include Milk products such as 5% Greek yoghurt. I research a lot using the Low Carb Downunder website and others, The Low Carb Downunder has very many different speakers including Tim Noakes, Ben Bickman and others. On very different subjects. I recently watched a great talk from the doctor from Southport. I’ve come to my diet through being very stupid at times and doing very different diets. This one works for me but it may not work for you. My body no longer tolerates carbs well at all but that’s my fault.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi folks, if anyone is interested in how things have gone for me following the Aussie reversing diabetes program. I can report things have improved enormously in the space of just 2.5 weeks following their program. I decided to hit it hard and fast and took time of work to focus on it. I've been able to cut back my exercise to just a 'normal' amount of about 60 mins moderate exercise a day to keep the blood glucose levels in the non-diabetic range. The big change was the food - cant say I loved following their Karbeto diet, which is actually like a healthy (vegan) version of low carb - lots of non starchy veges and very, very low fat. (about 8-10%) It has really improved fasting and post prandial glucose levels to being non-diabetic amazingly quickly (without the mega exercise I was doing) and I'm now introducing unprocessed carbs like pasta, potato, squash, red rice and oatmeal porridge. Steering well clear of all junky processed carbs like white bread and cakes but the way its going, should be fine eating plenty of whole and unprocessed carbs at this rate. Just did an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test, which they say is the only one to worry about if you want to know whether insulin resistance is improving (which it must if you want to ever eat carbs again) and at fasting was 4.7. At 2 hrs it was 6.9 which is very pleasing. The amazing part of that was my insulin level was down to 20Mu/l to achieve the 2 hr reading. They said having low insulin levels was very important to reduce CV risk. Will do A1c test in a few months. Anyway, although not cheap, (though depends what you think is important in life) I'm very pleased with the results so far and looking forward to eating a pretty normal diet in terms of carbs although definitely no going back to junk and refined carbs, which would be problematic it seems.

Edited by moderator to remove a sales link.

I’m glad you are finding it is working for you.

So what are you eating? On a meal by meal basis? Do you enjoy the food? What are your macros? Where are you getting your protein from? Is your weight changing, and is it changing in the direction that you want?

 

[DCUKMod]

@John93 - When you say confidently that oats don't cause you issues at all, how are you measuring that? Are you using a Libre or other continuous monitor?

 

[holysmoke99]

An American lady has told me about this program it’s high carb but plant based and low fat. Anyone tried it? It’s the opposite of keto that made me very poorly

Yes. I've reversed type 2 completely using this method & my Dr was shocked. A friend recommended the book which has lots of research & studies, as she has also reversed it.