Fed up.

[HSSS]

Since diagnosis I went quickly from 55mmol to low 40’s hb1ac. Lost 15+kg (2.5 stone) and stayed there more or less with a little upward movement lately. Morning fasting is stuck in highish 6’s most days. Most pre meals are high 5 to low 6 with an occasional lower reading. Post meals rarely more than 1mmol higher often the same. It’s just not good enough in my mind nearly 2 yrs down the line.

So this says to me I’m eating the right foods according to the meter as the rise is minimal. What I’m not sure of is how much carb cream, or leap, is cancelling out any improvements in insulin resistance. I’m fairly happy with my diet and not sure realistically how much lower I can go and maintain it without being miserable. I think some snacking (picking through boredom not hunger mostly) has crept in too.

So plan of action
1. Test more consistently. The moment I wake as well as 40 mins later after lunchbox routine etc is over. I’m hoping DP is misleading me and it’s better than it looks. Lol
2. Actually log food. This won’t last long as I despise doing it but it’s the only way to check for carb creep and know what I’m doing

Then when I know where I currently am for sure

3. Plan meals to avoid hunger and boredom with the same old stuff. Again I’m rubbish at this
4. Put the snack down. They aren’t high carb things but too many of them too often.
5. If none of this works consider drastic action of more exercise and or metformin neither of which have been on my radar.

Goals
Shift the last 5kg would be nice not essential
Get the hb1ac into the 30’s.
Get the morning fasting to move somewhere downwards
See a few more 4’s and a lot less 6’s on the meter.

Edited by Mod

 

[Member496333]

Broken record alert - have you undertaken a fasting insulin test? If it’s elevated then your diet may need adjusting, either temporarily or permanently. A glucose meter doesn’t tell you anything other than that you’re not putting too much extra glucose in. It's no indicator of how much excess energy is already stored in your body, and it’s no measure of the insulin concentration trying to keep it stored. To use Fung’s analogy, your sugar bowl may be just about overflowing but not quite. I view this is as treading water in the seas of hyperinsulinemia.

It’s impossible to know what’s going on without knowing your insulin profile. People are free to disagree with my views on this, and some will doubtless take offence, but I’m only trying to help. You’re encouraged to ignore me if you wish

See my old thread for clarification on what I mean by my treading water analogy;
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/eat-to-the-meter-or-play-the-long-game.160371/

 

[JohnEGreen]

This is the wild and wacky world of diabetes sometimes things just seem to defy explanation for instance in the last week or so I have had a reading at one point of 17.1 and then at another time 3.2 both readings seem totally out of step with what I'm eating.

So try not to get too despondent and persevere with your plan as it seems to be a good one.

Trends go one way then the other sometimes with no rhyme or reason so chin up my friend and try not to worry too much.

 

[Tophat1900]

I agree with @Jim Lahey about the limitations of a meter, and perhaps it might be a good idea to get your insulin level checked. This could turn out to be really important info. Well, I think it would be a good idea to get that measured. If you don't measure, you can't manage something or problem solve imo.

Otherwise, your numbers aren't that bad, they are not horrible. Perhaps there is some carb creep going on and habitual snacking can also be a problem. Perhaps protein is a factor, very difficult to say from the outside looking in, but a lot of small amount carb snacks will keep the insulin pumping out and storage will keep happening.

I'm sure you'll figure it out. You just need to get the right info and you'll be right. Good luck!

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi @HSSS,

Hugs for your frustrations, though admittedly your numbers are still enviable.

I agree with @Jim Lahey and with @Tophat1900 that somewhat elevated insulin levels might be the issue. The lack of further weight loss (unless already ideal weight) and the tendency to put on weight might be an indicator of this. As you know weight gain can't happen without insulin. Snacking will not help this either. So, probably worthwhile having this looked into.

Personally, I have also found that regular exercise seems to lower my levels a bit throughout the day (not much mind you, somewhere in the neighborhood of about 0.3 mmol). Also, excess protein (especially beef) late at night seems to increase my levels for about half a day.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Then when I know where I currently am for sure

C-peptide and insulin resistance tests will give you a more informed set of data and help you know where you are.

 

[Jam&Scones]

I have that issue with boredom and food - you might benefit from being a little mindful about it, for example, I always stop and think and then try to drink some water or go for a walk. Many times the impulse goes away. Also evaluate why you are turning to food, is it a habit that you always have that snack at 11am and are you actually hungry? Are you unhappy about something? Is there something you can do to alleviate that unhappiness? etc. It sounds easy, but I know this is hard. I dont always get it right, but it is enough to get it sometimes right.

I also believe shaking up your body's routine is a good thing - pick up a new hobby, lift weights, learn to cook new dishes, try other foods, go out and socialise (biggest difficulty for me right now, but I like it when I am actually with other people). If we are engaging ourselves both mentally and physically and continually make that interesting then I think we do well.

That is my goal anyway - try something new!

 

[Member496333]

I sometimes find coffee can be a bit of a snack trigger on occasion. Snacking on anything is bad juju for anyone wishing to heal the scars of metabolic meltdown (T2).

 

[HSSS]

Yep I agree with you all. I know it already. I don’t do coffee so that’s not the issue. Protein doesn’t seem to make a difference. Snacking is bad whatever it is. And the meter only shows the symptoms not the cause. They aren’t the worst figures but they haven’t shifted since the very start when I abruptly went keto. No gradual improvements during weight loss etc, with draining the swamp. (Maybe I haven’t drained it, just stopped the overflow).

I think I put it in a post to try and make me more accountable in my plan. And because I’m fed up with seeing such huge improvements in others with seemingly less changes and I’m jealous and having a tantrum. (I know we’re all different and I can’t compare).

I ordered the insulin and fasting glucose tests last summer only for them to cancel postal tests as it arrived! Can’t find anywhere near me to do it for a reasonable price.

 

[Member496333]

@HSSS try not to get too despondent, and definitely try not to compare stats with others (this is actually why I deleted my signature ages ago!).

You're doing a great job. It's a different journey for everyone. For some of us it just takes a long time for the body to recover from the assault. I'm three years in and still improving. Although in fairness my metabolism must have looked like a bombed runway on diagnosis, but the point being it takes as long as it takes. Keep calm and carry on. You will eventually find your groove and stay in it

 

[HSSS]

Yeah I deleted mine for the same reason a few months back. I’m in a groove, just not the one I want. But it’s an improvement on where I was, I’m not back sliding so I just need to keep plodding on. I know very well what to do, just putting my money where my mouth is

 

[Member496333]

Yeah I deleted mine for the same reason a few months back. I’m in a groove, just not the one I want. But it’s an improvement on where I was, I’m not back sliding so I just need to keep plodding on. I know very well what to do, just putting my money where my mouth is

Yep I hear you. Been there got the pyjamas and matching pillowcases. You just need to shift up to the next gear and find a new slot in the track. Your mission, should you choose to accept it...

 

[ziggy_w]

Yep I agree with you all. I know it already. I don’t do coffee so that’s not the issue. Protein doesn’t seem to make a difference. Snacking is bad whatever it is. And the meter only shows the symptoms not the cause. They aren’t the worst figures but they haven’t shifted since the very start when I abruptly went keto. No gradual improvements during weight loss etc, with draining the swamp. (Maybe I haven’t drained it, just stopped the overflow).

I think I put it in a post to try and make me more accountable in my plan. And because I’m fed up with seeing such huge improvements in others with seemingly less changes and I’m jealous and having a tantrum. (I know we’re all different and I can’t compare).

I ordered the insulin and fasting glucose tests last summer only for them to cancel postal tests as it arrived! Can’t find anywhere near me to do it for a reasonable price.

Hi @HSSS,

I might be wrong -- but it often appears as if it was easier to get really low numbers if your blood sugar levels were very high at diagnosis (rather than moderate like yours. In my mind, this might possibly suggest that this is because insulin production has already been compromised with very high levels. Consequently, when insulin levels are lower already, it might be easier to reduce whatever insulin resistance we have. Mind you -- I doubt there is any scientific evidence for this. So just a thought and I admit, I might be wrong on this.

Anyway, I feel your frustration and hope you find a way that works for you.

 

[HSSS]

With regards to insulin testing I just ran my numbers through the tyg index calculator. At diagnosis I scored 5.19 suggestive of IR and high likelihood of fatty liver. A year later it had dropped to 4.44 and was no longer suggestive of either. Most of the change came from trigs dropping a lot. Haven’t had an official fasting glucose since then but my meter records show it’s much the same and trigs are stable/low still.

I’m frustrated I don’t understand it. I hate not understanding stuff. Anything not just this. Even when I’m doing what I know I need to do it doesn’t change. Hence I think I’m now feeling a little “**** it, I might as well relax” and the snacking has crept it. Which I already know isn’t a good option either.

 

[NicoleC1971]

Since diagnosis I went quickly from 55mmol to low 40’s hb1ac. Lost 15+kg (2.5 stone) and stayed there more or less with a little upward movement lately. Morning fasting is stuck in highish 6’s most days. Most pre meals are high 5 to low 6 with an occasional lower reading. Post meals rarely more than 1mmol higher often the same. It’s just not good enough in my mind nearly 2 yrs down the line.

So this says to me I’m eating the right foods according to the meter as the rise is minimal. What I’m not sure of is how much carb cream, or leap, is cancelling out any improvements in insulin resistance. I’m fairly happy with my diet and not sure realistically how much lower I can go and maintain it without being miserable. I think some snacking (picking through boredom not hunger mostly) has crept in too.

So plan of action
1. Test more consistently. The moment I wake as well as 40 mins later after lunchbox routine etc is over. I’m hoping DP is misleading me and it’s better than it looks. Lol
2. Actually log food. This won’t last long as I despise doing it but it’s the only way to check for carb creep and know what I’m doing

Then when I know where I currently am for sure

3. Plan meals to avoid hunger and boredom with the same old stuff. Again I’m rubbish at this
4. Put the snack down. They aren’t high carb things but too many of them too often.
5. If none of this works consider drastic action of more exercise and or metformin neither of which have been on my radar.

Goals
Shift the last 5kg would be nice not essential
Get the hb1ac into the 30’s.
Get the morning fasting to move somewhere downwards
See a few more 4’s and a lot less 6’s on the meter.

Edited by Mod

As Jim Lahey says check that you are actually insulin resistant e,g, where is that excess 5kg? Do you have high bp or fatty liver or high trigs/low hdl still? (as well as the insulin tests which can be unreliable).
You may be interested to know that Prof Tim Noakes (a reversed type 2) does take metformin just to get his bgs into a normal for human range rather than just pretty good for a diabetic. As type 1 your numbers are ones I can only dream of but I get that you want to keep making progress and there's nothing wrong with that provided you are not getting overly obsessive or white knuckling it through hunger.

 

[Brunneria]

@HSSS

I am in (almost exactly) the same boat as you. My fasting readings can be 6-8+. My HbA1cs are in the mid/high 30s.
I have significant insulin resistance and stalled weight loss.

The difference is that I have a heck of a lot more excess weight than you, and I have diagnoses of PCOS and a prolactinoma that pretty much guarantee diet will never solve my insulin resistance. I'm also perimenopausal, which screws everything up, doesn’t it?

I read posts on here by people eating carnivore or keto whose bgs and HbA1cs are dramatically lower than mine.
And I dislike the fact that some threads and posts seem to encourage a comparing mindset.
But I shrug. That isn’t a game I am interested in playing.

My take aways are threefold:
1. I feel generally well.
2. My blood glucose is comfortably and consistently under control, at levels that are not at high risk of complications.
3. I enjoy my food, and my way of eating is sustainable (keto 7?+ years, carnivore 2+ years). I am in this for the duration.

 

[Goonergal]

Hi @HSSS

Agree that doing the insulin resistance tests would be helpful, and perhaps also investing in a Libre sensor as a once off, to get a fuller picture of what’s going on for you.

I do think eating things that you enjoy/are comfortable with is very important for sustainability and long-term management. And totally get where you’re coming from with the snacking - easy to fall into that. In my case certain foods trigger me into over eating and I’m currently trying to re lose some of the weight I initially dropped and regained over the past year. It’s a long haul and not a smooth path.

Good on you for posting and looking for solutions.

 

[HSSS]

As Jim Lahey says check that you are actually insulin resistant e,g, where is that excess 5kg? Do you have high bp or fatty liver or high trigs/low hdl still? (as well as the insulin tests which can be unreliable).
You may be interested to know that Prof Tim Noakes (a reversed type 2) does take metformin just to get his bgs into a normal for human range rather than just pretty good for a diabetic. As type 1 your numbers are ones I can only dream of but I get that you want to keep making progress and there's nothing wrong with that provided you are not getting overly obsessive or white knuckling it through hunger.

Bp has always been normal or even slightly low. Trigs low at 0.7, hdl ok at 1.63. Interestingly in looking for those numbers found another tyg index summary that suggests 4.5 is around the point IR becomes a consideration so maybe not so far clear of it as the one I looked at a few hrs ago gave me cause to think. No indication of fatty liver. The 5 kg is fairly evenly spread, maybe slightly on the tummy but not much.
I’ve been mulling over the metformin thing. I think if nothing else shifts it then it might be the way forward but I’ve been so resistant to drugs it’s hard to row that back. We’ll see

 

[HSSS]

@HSSS

I am in (almost exactly) the same boat as you. My fasting readings can be 6-8+. My HbA1cs are in the mid/high 30s.
I have significant insulin resistance and stalled weight loss.

The difference is that I have a heck of a lot more excess weight than you, and I have diagnoses of PCOS and a prolactinoma that pretty much guarantee diet will never solve my insulin resistance. I'm also perimenopausal, which screws everything up, doesn’t it?

I read posts on here by people eating carnivore or keto whose bgs and HbA1cs are dramatically lower than mine.
And I dislike the fact that some threads and posts seem to encourage a comparing mindset.
But I shrug. That isn’t a game I am interested in playing.

My take aways are threefold:
1. I feel generally well.
2. My blood glucose is comfortably and consistently under control, at levels that are not at high risk of complications.
3. I enjoy my food, and my way of eating is sustainable (keto 7?+ years, carnivore 2+ years). I am in this for the duration.

No other specific diagnosis but only half a thyroid (coping ok at last check), peri menopausal, permanently borderline low ferretin, b12 that falls rapidly. I think I may have some proximal neuropathy but not diagnosed. Slight changes at last eye screening but told not to worry. So there might be some damage. I believe this all started 20 yrs ago for me.

I never got a boost when I made the changes to weight or blood glucose. Felt much the same physically though I like being able to touch my toes now without moving my belly out of the way!

I don’t mind how I eat now mostly. Not sure I can get more “out of the norm” without resenting the extra cooking/hassle rather than the food itself.


But thanks for understanding.

 

[HSSS]

Hi @HSSS

Agree that doing the insulin resistance tests would be helpful, and perhaps also investing in a Libre sensor as a once off, to get a fuller picture of what’s going on for you.

I do think eating things that you enjoy/are comfortable with is very important for sustainability and long-term management. And totally get where you’re coming from with the snacking - easy to fall into that. In my case certain foods trigger me into over eating and I’m currently trying to re lose some of the weight I initially dropped and regained over the past year. It’s a long haul and not a smooth path.

Good on you for posting and looking for solutions.

I did a libre once last year and found it read high but liked the better view of trends. Maybe it’s time to get another. Cash is a bit tight though. I did lose a couple of the 5 kg and regain them. Maybe for me it needs to be a bit more. I’m a 12-14 and after years of more quite happy at that but perhaps the 12 would be more beneficial to IR. I feel a fraud constantly offering opinion and thoughts when I can’t do as I advocate myself. Well I do, but not consistently. Maybe I need to listen to myself more