Fed up.

[HSSS]

I have that issue with boredom and food - you might benefit from being a little mindful about it, for example, I always stop and think and then try to drink some water or go for a walk. Many times the impulse goes away. Also evaluate why you are turning to food, is it a habit that you always have that snack at 11am and are you actually hungry? Are you unhappy about something? Is there something you can do to alleviate that unhappiness? etc. It sounds easy, but I know this is hard. I dont always get it right, but it is enough to get it sometimes right.

I also believe shaking up your body's routine is a good thing - pick up a new hobby, lift weights, learn to cook new dishes, try other foods, go out and socialise (biggest difficulty for me right now, but I like it when I am actually with other people). If we are engaging ourselves both mentally and physically and continually make that interesting then I think we do well.

That is my goal anyway - try something new!

Lots of food triggers, rarely hunger. I’m conscious of trying to change some patterns. Some triggers are harder to remove but I can tackle some of them. Yes more real life socialising would be good for me. I took up salsa again a few months ago. Love getting out and being “me” all on my own and it’s active.

 

[Goonergal]

I did a libre once last year and found it read high but liked the better view of trends. Maybe it’s time to get another. Cash is a bit tight though. I did lose a couple of the 5 kg and regain them. Maybe for me it needs to be a bit more. I’m a 12-14 and after years of more quite happy at that but perhaps the 12 would be more beneficial to IR. I feel a fraud constantly offering opinion and thoughts when I can’t do as I advocate myself. Well I do, but not consistently. Maybe I need to listen to myself more

Do you fast? If not, some IF might move the needle on insulin resistance just as effectively as changing what you eat. My Libres almost always read low - some more so than others, but the trends are fascinating. I think most people find it difficult to follow their own advice.

 

[ianf0ster]

We all want to be healthier (and more intelligent, richer, better looking etc.).
Your path is unique to you, there is no point in comparing yourself to only those with the 'best results', just as there's no point in only comparing yourself to those who follow the standard medical advice and find that for them Diabetes is irreversible and progressive and leads to serious complications.

You may be able to tweak things in order to move the dial a little, but don't lose sight of the fact that this has to be sustainable for you. A short term benefit with an inevitable longer term worsening is the sort of thing that those who are purely on medication are facing (if they only knew it) - so make sure you don't join them!

 

[DCUKMod]

No other specific diagnosis but only half a thyroid (coping ok at last check), peri menopausal, permanently borderline low ferretin, b12 that falls rapidly. I think I may have some proximal neuropathy but not diagnosed. Slight changes at last eye screening but told not to worry. So there might be some damage. I believe this all started 20 yrs ago for me.

I never got a boost when I made the changes to weight or blood glucose. Felt much the same physically though I like being able to touch my toes now without moving my belly out of the way!

I don’t mind how I eat now mostly. Not sure I can get more “out of the norm” without resenting the extra cooking/hassle rather than the food itself.


But thanks for understanding.

Now, you know what I'm going to bang on about, don't you?

I would wager a chunk of the farm on your thyroid being quite sub-optimal. I'm not talking crazy, zooms numbers, but off. Poor ferritin and B12 are likely all wound up in it. Without decent ferritin, folate, Vits D and B12, your thyroid is never going to be tip-top.

If you're considering paying money for some testing, I'd urge you to have your thyroid properly checked out too, including those vitamins. When mine was going off-piste, my bits and minerals went a bit wonky for a while. Silly things, like my Vit D went from, and I paraphrase the Endos quote, "if that Vit D is natural, it's the best I've seen in years" to deficient (around 20) in a matter of months. Cue targeted supplementation.

If your thyroid bloods (and I bet, at the very best you have the TSH and FT4 checked), all your GP will be interested in is where your TSH is on the scale.

The UK scales allow for treatment from a TSH of 10, or 5 if significantly symptomatic. In the US, hypothyroidism is diagnosed at 3, so "we" are pretty relaxed about it all, which is fine, if you're not impacted.

I just had another set of bloods on Monday, which included my thyroid panel, fasting glucose, fasting insulin and an A1c. I had the glucose and insulin tests almost exactly a year ago. Last year my results were fine. This year a step change for the better (although my A1c was about the same). What was different as far as I am concerned? My thyroid is getting close to being adequately medicated.

Trust me; I detest taking medication, and sulk each time to do my tablets for the week. I hate it with a passion, however, my quality of life if much, much better with than without. Once I started to feel the benefits of the meds, I got well and truly over my ego of being totally meds-free.

Honestly, maybe it's a complete once-over for you. sometimes things being out of balance is almost as bad as being out of range.

I do feel for you.

 

[HSSS]

Do you fast? If not, some IF might move the needle on insulin resistance just as effectively as changing what you eat. My Libres almost always read low - some more so than others, but the trends are fascinating. I think most people find it difficult to follow their own advice.

Only half heartedly.

I often delay any real breakfast a while resulting in 14 -16 hrs. Usually then skip lunch as a result and eat dinner. Alternatively eat a breakfast early and again skip lunch resulting in two shorter but longish fasts. So usually two meals a day.

I tried 24hrs but with a busy family I still have to cook for and watch eat skipping dinner is too hard! I also am at home a lot and don’t have enough appropriate distractions to be very successful at it. I also find the morning figures drop after a little something, even a cup of tea and a cube of cheese so feel reassured by this. Maybe I need to test Jim’s theory of draining the body glucose down and see the numbers as a good thing

 

[Goonergal]

I also find the morning figures drop after a little something, even a cup of tea and a cube of cheese so feel reassured by this. Maybe I need to test Jim’s theory of draining the body glucose down and see the numbers as a good thing

One thing the Libre has shown me is that a morning rise and fall has little to do with eating or not eating - used to assume the same, but actually the pattern seems to hold good regardless of eating or not.

 

[DCUKMod]

If I could just add a link to one of the websites online using the TyG Index. I must confess, it was a new one on me. I thought the link might be helpful for others who hadn't too much knowledge about this particular index.

https://www.mdapp.co/tyg-index-calculator-359/

 

[HSSS]

Now, you know what I'm going to bang on about, don't you?

I would wager a chunk of the farm on your thyroid being quite sub-optimal. I'm not talking crazy, zooms numbers, but off. Poor ferritin and B12 are likely all wound up in it. Without decent ferritin, folate, Vits D and B12, your thyroid is never going to be tip-top.

If you're considering paying money for some testing, I'd urge you to have your thyroid properly checked out too, including those vitamins. When mine was going off-piste, my bits and minerals went a bit wonky for a while. Silly things, like my Vit D went from, and I paraphrase the Endos quote, "if that Vit D is natural, it's the best I've seen in years" to deficient (around 20) in a matter of months. Cue targeted supplementation.

If your thyroid bloods (and I bet, at the very best you have the TSH and FT4 checked), all your GP will be interested in is where your TSH is on the scale.

The UK scales allow for treatment from a TSH of 10, or 5 if significantly symptomatic. In the US, hypothyroidism is diagnosed at 3, so "we" are pretty relaxed about it all, which is fine, if you're not impacted.

I just had another set of bloods on Monday, which included my thyroid panel, fasting glucose, fasting insulin and an A1c. I had the glucose and insulin tests almost exactly a year ago. Last year my results were fine. This year a step change for the better (although my A1c was about the same). What was different as far as I am concerned? My thyroid is getting close to being adequately medicated.

Trust me; I detest taking medication, and sulk each time to do my tablets for the week. I hate it with a passion, however, my quality of life if much, much better with than without. Once I started to feel the benefits of the meds, I got well and truly over my ego of being totally meds-free.

Honestly, maybe it's a complete once-over for you. sometimes things being out of balance is almost as bad as being out of range.

I do feel for you.

I think the dr is sick of the sight of me. I’ve had to fight for quite a bit through several misdiagnosis over the last few years -often being proved right too. I have been banging on about something for ages so feel free to do the same

They won’t take the b12 seriously as in now in range thanks to supplements but falling at more than twice the normal rate since I stopped them. Do I wait til I get below their cut off or supplement again and make further testing pointless?

They won’t consider anything wrong with the thyroid (I did manage a single t3 a few months after the op 2 yrs ago which was okish ) as it’s still in range despite tsh being twice what it was (half of it left working twice as hard maybe?) as t4 ok. I need to press for an update as it’s nearly a year ago though.

ferretin never been higher than 15 or so goes down to 7 or 8 sometimes. Just can’t tolerate the iron supplements. Liver helps and I need to make more effort to eat it more often.

vit d was also low at diagnosis but not been checked since supplemented then for a while. Same with folate.

I agree that it would be great to get all of these in balance but without an income at the moment splashing out for the full work up isn’t going to happen. And the dr s just ain’t listening. They also think t2 is well controlled so don’t think there any need to change anything on that basis.

any literature you can point me to that links thyroid with t2?

 

[HSSS]

If I could just add a link to one of the websites online using the TyG Index. I must confess, it was a new one on me. I thought the link might be helpful for others who hadn't too much knowledge about this particular index.

https://www.mdapp.co/tyg-index-calculator-359/

that’s the one I first used tonight. Then I found a note about the limit being 450 but no idea where I got that from

 

[DCUKMod]

I think the dr is sick of the sight of me. I’ve had to fight for quite a bit through several misdiagnosis over the last few years -often being proved right too. I have been banging on about something for ages so feel free to do the same

They won’t take the b12 seriously as in now in range thanks to supplements but falling at more than twice the normal rate since I stopped them. Do I wait til I get below their cut off or supplement again and make further testing pointless?

They won’t consider anything wrong with the thyroid (I did manage a single t3 a few months after the op 2 yrs ago which was okish ) as it’s still in range despite tsh being twice what it was (half of it left working twice as hard maybe?) as t4 ok. I need to press for an update as it’s nearly a year ago though.

ferretin never been higher than 15 or so goes down to 7 or 8 sometimes. Just can’t tolerate the iron supplements. Liver helps and I need to make more effort to eat it more often.

vit d was also low at diagnosis but not been checked since supplemented then for a while. Same with folate.

I agree that it would be great to get all of these in balance but without an income at the moment splashing out for the full work up isn’t going to happen. And the dr s just ain’t listening. They also think t2 is well controlled so don’t think there any need to change anything on that basis.

any literature you can point me to that links thyroid with t2?

Hypothyroidism is incredibly widespread, so I'm sceptical of specifically linking the two, except that many of the symptoms can be interchangeable - fatigue, weight gain, poor skin and or hair and so on.

There is a school of thought out there that Low catb diets don't help with the thyroid, but that certainly isn't something the Endo I see subscribes to.

One thing he did say to me was that I should be on a strictly gluten-free diet, which I now am. His direction was based on a number of factors specific to me and my family history, but also, "many people with AI conditions do very wel,living GF."

I thought that'd be a dawdle, being LC and never having been a bread or baked goods fan, but that was a real challenge. That pesky gluten is in some funny and unexpected places!!

The fasting insulin tests are a pain, since Medichecks halted their finger-prick version. I was in a similar position to you at the time. The one I had done on Monday was done overseas.

MonitorMyHealth do a thyroid panel TSH, FT4 and FT3 - no antibodies or nutritional add-ons, for £29. I use that one for my interim monitoring.

MonitorMyHealth is a service offered by the Exeter Trust, using NHS labs in the quiet hours - evenings and weekends, at, in my view, a decent price point. They offer a limited range of tests, but they are very efficient.

https://monitormyhealth.org.uk/#

 

[Winnie53]

HSSS, I do empathize...managing my diabetes with diet and walking is a bit of a slog. And I doubt I'll ever have the numbers I want. I keep reminding myself that maintaining a healthy lifestyle is the key to good health.

I was 10 years untreated into my T2DM diagnosis when I stumbled onto the LCHF diet, so not sure how much is possible. I have a lot of lab testing done every 2 years now just to see where I am regarding all aspects of my health. (Despite having health insurance, I have to pay out of pocket for everything.) Overall, my health looks good.

Low B vitamins is a problem for me. I've taken a good quality B-complex my entire adult life. Need to get the genetic test to see if I have the MTHFR issue. Deficiency could also be due to the ulcerative colitis. All I know is that if I stop taking my B-complex for 6 months, my ability to function is affected, and when I restart them, I feel so much better. Life is good again.

Could get the genetic testing...or I could just switch to a good quality pre-methylated B-complex. I keep thinking it's an expensive test. Probably isn't. Need to price it.

One thing I do know is that maintaining B vitamins within range is important for the health of the nervous system, particularly for those of us with diabetes.

I'm reading your posts and all the comments you're receiving with great interest. Thanks for starting this topic.

 

[Jam&Scones]

If the body worked consistently across all people, ages and genders, we wouldn't be here swapping numbers

But seriously, if there is anything I have learned, the endocrine system is a complex and finicky thing that no one truly understands...

 

[Winnie53]

HSSS, I'm home now where I have a chart to translate your A1c's and glucose readings in your OP. I think you're doing great, but I also support you in your efforts to do better. I'm typically motivated to do same this time of year. Good luck!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Since diagnosis I went quickly from 55mmol to low 40’s hb1ac. Lost 15+kg (2.5 stone) and stayed there more or less with a little upward movement lately. Morning fasting is stuck in highish 6’s most days. Most pre meals are high 5 to low 6 with an occasional lower reading. Post meals rarely more than 1mmol higher often the same. It’s just not good enough in my mind nearly 2 yrs down the line.

So this says to me I’m eating the right foods according to the meter as the rise is minimal. What I’m not sure of is how much carb cream, or leap, is cancelling out any improvements in insulin resistance. I’m fairly happy with my diet and not sure realistically how much lower I can go and maintain it without being miserable. I think some snacking (picking through boredom not hunger mostly) has crept in too.

So plan of action
1. Test more consistently. The moment I wake as well as 40 mins later after lunchbox routine etc is over. I’m hoping DP is misleading me and it’s better than it looks. Lol
2. Actually log food. This won’t last long as I despise doing it but it’s the only way to check for carb creep and know what I’m doing

Then when I know where I currently am for sure

3. Plan meals to avoid hunger and boredom with the same old stuff. Again I’m rubbish at this
4. Put the snack down. They aren’t high carb things but too many of them too often.
5. If none of this works consider drastic action of more exercise and or metformin neither of which have been on my radar.

Goals
Shift the last 5kg would be nice not essential
Get the hb1ac into the 30’s.
Get the morning fasting to move somewhere downwards
See a few more 4’s and a lot less 6’s on the meter.

Edited by Mod

I regained 10 kilo's, while on keto. Bunch of possible reasons; B1 deficiency (insulin resistance), carb creep, perimenopause, Hashimoto's, PCOS, stress.... My BG isn't perfect, but it's never above 7 unless there's a steroid shot or flu about. I'm doing the best I can with the cards I've been dealt.

I'm pretty much in the same boat I suppose... Last week I talked about giving up on the weight loss thing and just taking the decent blood sugars and being grateful for them, but I'll still weigh myself in the morning in spite of that. And I've started working out again, even with d deficiency throwing a wrench in. So while you're doing all the things you need to do to get back on track and figure out what the problem area's are, you're certainly not alone. It's just hard to mention things going awry sometimes, when there's a lot of success stories about.

I hope you get the results you need. *hugs*
Jo

 

[liza_h]

No other specific diagnosis but only half a thyroid (coping ok at last check), peri menopausal, permanently borderline low ferretin, b12 that falls rapidly. I think I may have some proximal neuropathy but not diagnosed. Slight changes at last eye screening but told not to worry. So there might be some damage. I believe this all started 20 yrs ago for me.

I never got a boost when I made the changes to weight or blood glucose. Felt much the same physically though I like being able to touch my toes now without moving my belly out of the way!

I don’t mind how I eat now mostly. Not sure I can get more “out of the norm” without resenting the extra cooking/hassle rather than the food itself.


But thanks for understanding.

I totally agree with DCUKMod and flagging up the thyroid. I've also reached a plateau, not dissimilar figures to you, need to lose a little more weight etc however I'm restricted with the thyroid issues and have to really keep a close check on those figures.

You write that you're coping ok - do you get the thyroid test figures? My GP resisted me getting these at first and was quite happy to tell me "normal, no action needed" when what is actually meant is "we're not legally obliged to treat" which is very different. I've found it useful to have the full figures.

Before thyroid issues I'd always been very active and positive. I can only lose weight with a TSH of around 1. I become symptomatic and depressed with a TSH above 3. I'd be bedridden at 10. The NHS isn't interested in individual differences because it would seem the computer can't cope. My point is that the thyroid may have a bigger part in your plateau than your post reflects.

 

[brooker]

Hi,
I've had Diabetes Type 2 for 20 years and I'm male and 73 now.
My diet is cooked roast beef from my local deli - I get the shaved stuff at 1kg at a time and keep it in the fridge.
I eat no carbs at all - no potatoes, rice, bread, well you know and no cream or milk.
I buy frozen greens in the bulk bags at my supermarket, the green vegetables with carrots and "good" Diabetic type vegetables.
I buy large apples, it does not matter which variety.
Mornings, I reduce the apple in my blender, skin, flesh and all - with a bit of tap water to get the action going.
I pour in my choice of frozen vegetables and blend down to liquid, then drink it down, my theory being that fresh vegetables will be more filling than cooked and retain more vitamins, etc.
I eat a few slices of roast beef, but it does not matter how much really.
Lunchtime and evenings, same as above, water instead of the apple.
I am never hungry, but if I were, green leafy vegetables are OK to eat, in any quantity.
Eating my diet, you will automatically lose weight,.
Average meal cost $5 x 3 = $15 day
I was obese, now I'm down to 98kg where my diabetes Doctor has recommended 97kg as being ideal, bearing in mind I'm 6'3" tall and skinny now.
I am a couch potato and rarely do any exercise.
You in England - I'm in Aussie.
Check out my Flu cure and possibly Coronavirus - nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Best Wishes

 

[brooker]

Um, I forgot to mention - drink lots of water.
The water here tastes foul, so I flavor it with sugar free cordial to taste.
Best Wishes

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi,
I've had Diabetes Type 2 for 20 years and I'm male and 73 now.
My diet is cooked roast beef from my local deli - I get the shaved stuff at 1kg at a time and keep it in the fridge.
I eat no carbs at all - no potatoes, rice, bread, well you know and no cream or milk.
I buy frozen greens in the bulk bags at my supermarket, the green vegetables with carrots and "good" Diabetic type vegetables.
I buy large apples, it does not matter which variety.
Mornings, I reduce the apple in my blender, skin, flesh and all - with a bit of tap water to get the action going.
I pour in my choice of frozen vegetables and blend down to liquid, then drink it down, my theory being that fresh vegetables will be more filling than cooked and retain more vitamins, etc.
I eat a few slices of roast beef, but it does not matter how much really.
Lunchtime and evenings, same as above, water instead of the apple.
I am never hungry, but if I were, green leafy vegetables are OK to eat, in any quantity.
Eating my diet, you will automatically lose weight,.
Average meal cost $5 x 3 = $15 day
I was obese, now I'm down to 98kg where my diabetes Doctor has recommended 97kg as being ideal, bearing in mind I'm 6'3" tall and skinny now.
I am a couch potato and rarely do any exercise.
You in England - I'm in Aussie.
Check out my Flu cure and possibly Coronavirus - nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Best Wishes

With respect, if you look up your apple and frozen vegetables you will find they contain carbs, so to label your diet zero carb could be considered rather misleading. Coincidentally, at 6'3" and 98kg, according to the UK BMI calculator, you still trip into the overweight category.

I haven't noticed anywhere where you declare your HbA1c or otherhealth metric scores, but your interpretations are a bit adrift of my own.

 

[HSSS]

I totally agree with DCUKMod and flagging up the thyroid. I've also reached a plateau, not dissimilar figures to you, need to lose a little more weight etc however I'm restricted with the thyroid issues and have to really keep a close check on those figures.

You write that you're coping ok - do you get the thyroid test figures? My GP resisted me getting these at first and was quite happy to tell me "normal, no action needed" when what is actually meant is "we're not legally obliged to treat" which is very different. I've found it useful to have the full figures.

Before thyroid issues I'd always been very active and positive. I can only lose weight with a TSH of around 1. I become symptomatic and depressed with a TSH above 3. I'd be bedridden at 10. The NHS isn't interested in individual differences because it would seem the computer can't cope. My point is that the thyroid may have a bigger part in your plateau than your post reflects.

I do get the figures.
Pre surgery 2 yrs ago Tsh sat around 0.6 and t4 around 9-10.
Post surgery TSH has doubled to 1.2 ish T4 has gone up a bit more like 10-12 with one blip down to 8.6 a year afterwards.
Only t3 I managed to get was 5.6 a few months post surgery.
TSH range 0.4-5.6
T4 range 7.7 - 15.1
T3 range 4.3-6.8.
These look ok to me. I’m assuming tsh is up because it needs to stimulate higher productivity from the remaining bit of my thyroid to get the same overall result. With tsh this low they believe it’s fine. Obviously this could have changed in the last year.

I'm still unclear how thyroid affect bgl, though I get how it effects weight.

 

[HSSS]

Hi,
I've had Diabetes Type 2 for 20 years and I'm male and 73 now.
My diet is cooked roast beef from my local deli - I get the shaved stuff at 1kg at a time and keep it in the fridge.
I eat no carbs at all - no potatoes, rice, bread, well you know and no cream or milk.
I buy frozen greens in the bulk bags at my supermarket, the green vegetables with carrots and "good" Diabetic type vegetables.
I buy large apples, it does not matter which variety.
Mornings, I reduce the apple in my blender, skin, flesh and all - with a bit of tap water to get the action going.
I pour in my choice of frozen vegetables and blend down to liquid, then drink it down, my theory being that fresh vegetables will be more filling than cooked and retain more vitamins, etc.
I eat a few slices of roast beef, but it does not matter how much really.
Lunchtime and evenings, same as above, water instead of the apple.
I am never hungry, but if I were, green leafy vegetables are OK to eat, in any quantity.
Eating my diet, you will automatically lose weight,.
Average meal cost $5 x 3 = $15 day
I was obese, now I'm down to 98kg where my diabetes Doctor has recommended 97kg as being ideal, bearing in mind I'm 6'3" tall and skinny now.
I am a couch potato and rarely do any exercise.
You in England - I'm in Aussie.
Check out my Flu cure and possibly Coronavirus - nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Best Wishes

I think you’re advocating your diet as a solution to my issues. Whilst I’m glad it’s working for you (how are your numbers?) I’m not sure if I’d die of hunger or boredom first and would rather exercise or take medication than be that restrictive in variety, nutrition, fats and quantity of food.

You do eat carbs, in the fruit and veg, although quite low.

No idea of the relevance of location or flu to the conversation.