Breakdown of Italy’s figures (edited title)

[Oldvatr]

Don't be too buisy looking at the sky to miss that dodgy pavement..

 

[porl69]

Thank you for starting this thread, @HSSS . It is very comforting.

I just don't get how 35% of the figures were diabetic and you find it "comforting" WOW

 

[zand]

I do wish those who are managing good control of their BGs would think of those of us who aren't able to do that anymore for whatever reason. The 'I'm alright because I am a good diabetic' attitude is really beginning to get me down.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi All,

Several posts on this thread have been deleted when a disagreement escalated to rudeness and name calling.
We are all entitled to our own opinion, but insulting others because they hold a different view is most definitely against the forum rules.

Please remember that, or the mod team will need to step in again, and if we do that, there will probably be Thread Bans applied to those involved.

 

[porl69]

To repeat my point, if it

I don't mean to harp on about this BUT your point is what???? If it??????

 

[NicoleC1971]

I still find the figures scary. I have several co morbities. I wonder how many of those people would have lived if they hadn't been triaged out of a ventilator in favour of a younger person?

Did you see the tributes to the 88 year old who died in UK? Wow! What a wonderful guy he was and what a full life he was living. Let's not write off all our elderly just because of the number which is their age. Most will be sorely missed.

I am actually glad that one of my good friends died in February and missed all of this fear and anxiety. He was 97 and his immune system could not deal with a hospital bug caught when he was no longer able to mobilise. I do miss him but his death felt timely after a short illness and following a 'good innings' whilst many won't be ready to lose their elderly prematurely.

 

[NicoleC1971]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

The vast majority had a multitude of comorbities and age. Not so reassuring if that also applies to you I understand, but it’s not a single factor as it is for many and not as bad as face value suggests.

According to the stats diabetes has a prevalence of 4.7% in Italy but that prevalence is highly concentrated in the those aged over 65. So it is not so surprising that diabetes was present in those whose age and other health conditions put them at risk.
Rather like that stat finding that 1 in 8 people in a hospital bed also had diabetes (UK).
Maker or marker of a less robust immune system?

 

[ianf0ster]

I don't mean to harp on about this BUT your point is what???? If it??????

If more than 35% of the total population have Diabetes, then if (only) 35% of those who died had diabetes- then that might be thought (by general public) to be good for Diabetics.
The point is that we don't know :
A). How many of the whole population have Diabetes
B). Which type of Diabetes is it - or is it just all types?
C). What proportion of those who had diabetes and died also had one or more other co-morbidity?

The figures are too low and too vague to be meaningful!

 

[zand]

I am actually glad that one of my good friends died in February and missed all of this fear and anxiety. He was 97 and his immune system could not deal with a hospital bug caught when he was no longer able to mobilise. I do miss him but his death felt timely after a short illness and following a 'good innings' whilst many won't be ready to lose their elderly prematurely.

It's so sad that hospital bugs are still around. My Dad died of MRSA aged 78, 24 years ago. But yes I feel you are right in the case of your friend.

A bit off topic but Spanish flu has been mentioned a few times. My son told me that many of the deaths in the trenches could have actually been from Spanish flu. My Grandfather came home from WW1 in 1917 having lost a leg. Losing that leg could well have saved his life.

I hate the thought that so many die prematurely for whatever reason.

 

[Max68]

The other interesting thing about these stats and figures is this. Are postmortems carried out after a death with this virus? The reason I ask is there are millions upon millions in the world walking around with either diabetes, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, cholesterol, the list goes on, without knowing it or having them diagnosed . Are these conditions therefore found after death via a postmortem to add to the stats? If not then it could paint more of a positive picture for people with underlying conditions because apparently the death rate is low for those without. So thousands of "recovered" patients deemed "healthy" could indeed have un-diagnosed underlying conditions If you see what I mean!!!

 

[Mr_Pot]

I don't mean to harp on about this BUT your point is what???? If it??????

I have deleted that post. I had just started writing it when I accidentally hit Post Reply. I immediately tried to edit it, but the thread was locked as mods were in action.

 

[HSSS]

I just don't get how 35% of the figures were diabetic and you find it "comforting" WOW

Ok I missed the deleted posts so I have no idea of their relevance beyond the inappropriate comments.

As the op the reason I personally found it somewhat reassuring was it showed that the vast majority were people already quite unwell with a number of existing issues and quite elderly. As someone not that age yet and with “just” diabetes that made me feel better.

I also noted it was not helpful it you were a person with several illnesses. Bit like someone without any of the conditions raising risk saying it’s only mild to any of us here. Not helpful so apologies if I sounded blasé about it. I was hoping to reassure at least some of us.

That they were mostly quite elderly likely means that a significant percentage would have had diabetes (I don’t know Italy’s figures but many places in the west have high figures especially among older people.). I suspect 35% is likely to match prevalence so is to be expected

I guess the question is were there more % deaths of people with diabetes than the % that have it. Eg if 5% of that age group have it, it looks pretty bad for diabetics if 35% died. However if 50% of the relevant group have it but only 35% of the dead do then it almost looks protective. Does that make sense? It’s all about the proportions Same for any group/differentiator

 

[zand]

Ok I missed the deleted posts so I have no idea of their relevance beyond the inappropriate comments.

As the op the reason I personally found it somewhat reassuring was it showed that the vast majority were people already quite unwell with a number of existing issues and quite elderly. As someone not that age yet and with “just” diabetes that made me feel better.

I also noted it was not helpful it you were a person with several illnesses. Bit like someone without any of the conditions raising risk saying it’s only mild to any of us here. Not helpful so apologies if I sounded blasé about it. I was hoping to reassure at least some of us.

That they were mostly quite elderly likely means that a significant percentage would have had diabetes (I don’t know Italy’s figures but many places in the west have high figures especially among older people.). I suspect 35% is likely to match prevalence so is to be expected

I guess the question is were there more % deaths of people with diabetes than the % that have it. Eg if 5% of that age group have it, it looks pretty bad for diabetics if 35% died. However if 50% of the relevant group have it but only 35% of the dead do then it almost looks protective. Does that make sense? It’s all about the proportions Same for any group/differentiator

Sorry I am just a bit sensitive having had problems with diet and BGs since having Lyme Disease in June. You do make some good points.

 

[ianf0ster]

The current (early stage) trials on the anti-malaris, anti-pneumonis drug combo being tested in China, Korea, France, USA is extremely encouraging, though it may me contra-indicated for some with existing liver /heart problems.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1pnq469o...ew=An+Effective+Treatment+for+Coronavirus.pdf

Breaking news update on use of anti-malaria drug for Covid-19.

The US authorities FDA - have just authorised use of this drug for Covid-19 patients. Not sure at this stage if this includes using it in the combination therapy as has been tested, but in any case the other drug is an anti-pneumonia and it's actually the horrifying resulting pneumonia that kills the patients.

 

[porl69]

Ok I missed the deleted posts so I have no idea of their relevance beyond the inappropriate comments.

As the op the reason I personally found it somewhat reassuring was it showed that the vast majority were people already quite unwell with a number of existing issues and quite elderly. As someone not that age yet and with “just” diabetes that made me feel better.

I also noted it was not helpful it you were a person with several illnesses. Bit like someone without any of the conditions raising risk saying it’s only mild to any of us here. Not helpful so apologies if I sounded blasé about it. I was hoping to reassure at least some of us.

That they were mostly quite elderly likely means that a significant percentage would have had diabetes (I don’t know Italy’s figures but many places in the west have high figures especially among older people.). I suspect 35% is likely to match prevalence so is to be expected

I guess the question is were there more % deaths of people with diabetes than the % that have it. Eg if 5% of that age group have it, it looks pretty bad for diabetics if 35% died. However if 50% of the relevant group have it but only 35% of the dead do then it almost looks protective. Does that make sense? It’s all about the proportions Same for any group/differentiator

Thank you for coming back with your thoughts on this. I agree that the 35% did have other problems as well. But it is still 35% diabetics

 

[ianf0ster]

And Bayer has announced it is donating 3million of the tablet form of the drug for the USA.

https://twitter.com/BayerUS/status/1240678497900625921

 

[bulkbiker]

Also maybe

https://twitter.com/holmanm/status/1240704311493091328

 

[HSSS]

Thank you for coming back with your thoughts on this. I agree that the 35% did have other problems as well. But it is still 35% diabetics

But if 35% of the relevant population have diabetes then you would expect 35% of deaths to also have diabetes too wouldn’t you? So the key issues is what % of the over 70’s (the main age group dying) in Italy have diabetes?

 

[HSSS]

But if 35% of the relevant population have diabetes then you would expect 35% of deaths to also have diabetes too wouldn’t you? So the key issues is what % of the over 70’s (the main age group dying) in Italy have diabetes?

The only stats I can find are here https://www.istat.it/it/files//2017/07/Report_Diabetes_En_def.pdf. This suggests in the over 65’s it’s around 16.5% in 2016. The same report also notes Italy has a higher than usual mortality rate in the EU. Perhaps suggesting poorer control??? No way of knowing how many of that 35% also had other conditions. Maybe a lot maybe not.

 

[Jaylee]

The only stats I can find are here https://www.istat.it/it/files//2017/07/Report_Diabetes_En_def.pdf. This suggests in the over 65’s it’s around 16.5% in 2016. The same report also notes Italy has a higher than usual mortality rate in the EU. Perhaps suggesting poorer control??? No way of knowing how many of that 35% also had other conditions. Maybe a lot maybe not.

"Other conditions" maybe = ongoing complications from diabetes?

Just surmising.