Breakdown of Italy’s figures (edited title)

[Oil Drum]

A a frequent traveller to Lombardy my lay persons obersevations about the Italian situation, Firstly compared to the UK and especially the USA due to genetics and excellent healthcare Italians have a surprisingly high life expectancy of 82.5 years.hence large perecentatage of the population over 80, secondly Italian men lagged way behind the UK in kicking the smoking habbit. The majority of deaths in Italy have been in the older age group the median age of the population in Italy is 47.3 years compared with 38.3 in the USA and 40.7 in the UK

 

[EllieM]

I don't have the figures for Italy but in the USA 26.8% of over 65's have diabetes. It could be that the 35% just happened to have diabetes rather than that is what led to their death. No doubt many of those who died had grey hair or poor eyesight but that didn't put them at more risk of dying.

https://www.istat.it/en/archive/202712

Just found some figures for Italy, 16.5% in over 65s.

While that is a lot less than 35%, you have to remember that diabetic cases go up dramatically with age, as does the virus' mortality rates. It isn't at all clear to me that diabetes increases your risk that much, at least certainly for under 60s. (Disclaimer, I'm 58 and am going to self isolate, but I have blood pressure issues as well.)

Stay safe everyone.

 

[Draco16]

I posted these in another thread earlier - the Chinese figures, where diabetics infected have about 2-3x increased risk of death versus all those infected. These Italian numbers look similar.

 

[xenomorph2020]

the problem is none of these stats say if any of the diabetes deaths were well controlled people under 70.

 

[ianf0ster]

I posted these in another thread earlier - the Chinese figures, where diabetics infected have about 2-3x increased risk of death versus all those infected. These Italian numbers look similar.

So based upon these figures, it is much worse to be Male than Female, and much worse to have a health condition than not, and much worse to be so old you that they were likely to die of something else in the next couple of years!

This may be scary for those in those categories, but we all must eventually die and so there must be a cause of death, even if it is so confusing that the Doctor says it was 'Old Age'.

 

[ianf0ster]

the problem is none of these stats say if any of the diabetes deaths were well controlled people under 70.

For the simple reason that the medics are not specialists in the co-morbidities and are just focussed on trying to save as many lives as possible rather than to collect data for some later study!

 

[Draco16]

the problem is none of these stats say if any of the diabetes deaths were well controlled people under 70.

As we're now past 10k deaths globally, almost certain that at least one of those deaths was in well controlled, under 70.

But for sure, i'd expect that well controlled and under 70 provides better outcomes then badly controlled and over 70

 

[ianf0ster]

Also maybe

https://twitter.com/holmanm/status/1240704311493091328

I'm not sure what either Wuhan or Northern Italy have been like recently since though I have visited both it was over 10yrs ago. Back then Wuhan was only possible the 3rd most polluted city in China - Xian was the worst followed by Beijing.
I used to ski in N. Italy and until the indoor smoking ban, the smoke fog in bars and restaurants was terrible - I used to eat lunch outdoors even up the mountain when it was snowing!. Also when driving back down the mountain you could see the layer of smog from the cities.

 

[Oil Drum]

So based upon these figures, it is much worse to be Male than Female, and much worse to have a health condition than not, and much worse to be so old you that they were likely to die of something else in the next couple of years!

This may be scary for those in those categories, but we all must eventually die and so there must be a cause of death, even if it is so confusing that the Doctor says it was 'Old Age'.

For social reasons Chinese stats may not be fully representative of the situation in Europe particularly with regard to male-female deaths distribution as smoking is very widespread amongst Chinese males but rare among Chinese females also a higher proportion of the Chinese population have diabetetes.

 

[jjraak]

The other interesting thing about these stats and figures is this. Are postmortems carried out after a death with this virus? The reason I ask is there are millions upon millions in the world walking around with either diabetes, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, cholesterol, the list goes on, without knowing it or having them diagnosed . Are these conditions therefore found after death via a postmortem to add to the stats? If not then it could paint more of a positive picture for people with underlying conditions because apparently the death rate is low for those without. So thousands of "recovered" patients deemed "healthy" could indeed have un-diagnosed underlying conditions If you see what I mean!!!

In reference to this., Great post btw.
I was until I was DX an uncontrolled T2D...like many would have been.

I would think, that a simple blood test was done for many of those who died, on admission,
It's just what a hospital would do.

So abnormal blood would present, without the need for any part mortems.

Add in that pre this, the worry for the NHS, was the predicted tsunami of T2D.

Rather unsurprising that many who died, as mentioned would be elderly AND have other pre-existing conditions. Including diabetes, diagnosed pre covid or post covid in hospital.

If post hospitalisation, that does skew the figures considerably, but they are still worthy of note.

Surely better managed is more beneficial then unmanaged.
The best we can do, is try to stay as healthy as possible, for as long as possible.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I doubt whether there is much investigation of the background to the cause of death. They had the virus, they succumbed to pneumonia. Their age and medical conditions were noted from the medical records. It seems unlikely that any postmortems are carried out, but even if they were it would be difficult to say how much an existing condition had contributed to their death.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Coronavirus has killed more people in Italy than in any other country, after deaths there rose by 427 in a day.

The number of deaths now stands at 3,405, which is more than in China where the virus originated last year.

The way Covig 19 is shaping up in Italy at present, it seems pretty indiscriminate to me who it infects / kills.

I believe if I contract it, it will be the COPD I have that kills me and not T2 diabetes...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51964307

 

[Draco16]

I believe if I contract it, it will be the COPD I have that kills me and not T2 diabetes...

For sure. I suppose in a cruel twist you might contract it, but then walk under a bridge that collapses and kills you, rather than COVID-19! However, on a like for like basis v a non-diabetic who also contracts COVID-19, you are about 3x more likely to die. So while the diabetes doesn't kill you, it gives a helping hand.

 

[Mr_Pot]

However, on a like for like basis v a non-diabetic who also contracts COVID-19, you are about 3x more likely to die.

Where do you get that figure from?

 

[Deleted member 308541]

So while the diabetes doesn't kill you, it gives a helping hand.

When you look at it, you only die once.

Fifty new cases of CV19 confirmed here in Queensland.

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/news-...queensland-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-update4

 

[Draco16]

Where do you get that figure from?

See below

 

[Oil Drum]

I have been looking at Chinese population age distribution the median age is 38,4 years and life expectancy 76.8 years which is significantly less than Europe, Japan,Canada or even the USA, --- I suspect the median age is distorted by the one chilld policy. These factors are reflected in the Chinese population age distribution which shows a disproportionately perecentage of the population in the 50 to 60 age group. The bulge in the population age distribution is big eough to make the Coronavirus data unrepresentative of the situation in the West.

 

[Mr_Pot]

See below

Just because 3 times as many people who died had diabetes it doesn't mean that people with diabetes are 3 times as likely to die. No doubt a high percentage of the people that died had poor eyesight (due to their age) but people who wear glasses are not more likely to die.

 

[SaskiaKC]

Don't be too buisy looking at the sky to miss that dodgy pavement..

No pavement this high up in my building. I can look at the sky in perfect safety, thank you very much.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

No doubt a high percentage of the people that died had poor eyesight (due to their age) but people who wear glasses are not more likely to die.

Statistics just love 'em.

99.9% of people who die in road accidents wear underwear...