Help! Help! T2 ignoramus. Best glucose lowering agent?

caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hello

is there any consensus on best, or most tolerable glucose lowering agents for T2D?

Thanks
 

NicoleC1971

BANNED
Messages
3,451
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Glucose lowering agents i.e. drugs do NOT work very well and essentially you're treating symptoms but not the root cause.
So I d say best way is to try low carb or fasting for real health benefits.
Insulin is bad because it makes the disease of insulin resistance worse as do the sulphonyuras (by juicing your insulin producing cells).
The newer classes of drugs such as SGLT in hibitors involve you peeing out some glucose and therefore do not incrase insulin resistance but there again they don' reduce it!

Jason \fung has written a good book explaining all of this ||The Diabetes Code - I like his analogy in which ctting carbs is like turning off your tap in a flood wheeas taking drugs is akin to simply making your drain slightly larger.

(edited by mod)
 
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Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Glucose lowering agents i.e. drugs do NOT work very well and essentially you're treating symptoms but not the root cause.
So I d say best way is to try low carb or fasting for real health benefits.
Insulin is bad because it makes the disease of insulin resistance worse as do the sulphonyuras (by juicing your insulin producing cells).
The newer classes of drugs such as SGLT in hibitors involve you peeing out some glucose and therefore do not incrase insulin resistance but there again they don' reduce it!

Jason \fung has written a good book explaining all of this ||The Diabetes Code - I like his analogy in which ctting carbs is like turning off your tap in a flood wheeas taking drugs is akin to simply making your drain slightly larger.
the analogy I use is that of a rechargeable battery. Eating carbs is the charging cycle, and lowering intake reduces the amount and rate of charge. Note the way the liver stores glucose can be viewed in this manner, I think.

BTW I would have used the term innocent rather than ignoramus, You become an ignoramus if you deliberately stick your head in the sand and decide to do nothing to change your condition given all the useful advice there is on this site. There is a subthread describing Success Stories andTestimonials, and this may help identify strategies that you could try.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/success-stories-and-testimonials.43/

(edited by mod te reflect edtited quote)
 
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Geordie_P

Well-Known Member
Messages
849
Type of diabetes
Type 2
the analogy I use is that of a rechargeable battery. Eating carbs is the charging cycle, and lowering intake reduces the amount and rate of charge. Note the way the liver stores glucose can be viewed in this manner, I think.

BTW I would have used the term innocent rather than ignoramus, You become an ignoramus if you deliberately stick your head in the sand and decide to do nothing to change your condition given all the useful advice there is on this site. There is a subthread describing Success Stories andTestimonials, and this may help identify strategies that you could try.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/success-stories-and-testimonials.43/
Agree: Caius is a lot smarter than many already, because he's looking to learn. That's the best you can do!
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@NicoleC1971 , I don't think it is appropriate to make a blanket statement that any treatment is "bad", as you seem to have done in your post.

Although in many T2s, who produce enough insulin, and have insulin resistance, the use of further injected insulin or sulphonyuras could be considered unhelpful, it's not a treatment that's bad for all.

There are a number of T2s for whom insulin or such is the most appropriate course of action, if, say, their natural insulin production has dwindles a bit, or if they have other issues in play, resulting in stratospheric blood glucose issues.

I agree with you that for those with T2, and particularly where insulin resistance is in play that diet is a key critical element of treatment and ongoing best outcomes, but unfortunately that won't be enough for some.

For myself, I was very fortunate to be able to reduce my own insulin resistance significantly by utilising a modified diet, and have never had to resort to medications to help, so I have no personal skin in this game.
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello

is there any consensus on best, or most tolerable glucose lowering agents for T2D?

Thanks

Caius - in order to make any sensible suggestions, it would be helpful if you gave us a bit more information to go on.
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. The best glucose lowering 'agent' is a low-carb diet. There are various tablets that can help including Metformin. Sulphonyl ureas such as Gliclazide and also insulin stimulate insulin production but this may be counterproductive if you are an overweight T2 as you will already have too much insulin but unable to use it efficiently. It's worth noting that Sulphonyl ureas and insulin do not cause weight gain. What they do is enable the body to produce more insulin and if too many carbs are eaten they enable the body to metabolise those carbs and store the glucose as fat if it's not needed.
 
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Nasarhayat

Newbie
Messages
3
Glucose lowering agents i.e. drugs do NOT work very well and essentially you're treating symptoms but not the root cause.
So I d say best way is to try low carb or fasting for real health benefits.
Insulin is bad because it makes the disease of insulin resistance worse as do the sulphonyuras (by juicing your insulin producing cells).
The newer classes of drugs such as SGLT in hibitors involve you peeing out some glucose and therefore do not incrase insulin resistance but there again they don' reduce it!

Jason \fung has written a good book explaining all of this ||The Diabetes Code - I like his analogy in which ctting carbs is like turning off your tap in a flood wheeas taking drugs is akin to simply making your drain slightly larger.

(edited by mod)
Thanks mate
 

caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Your profile says you are T1 .. are you asking for a friend (in which case best to get them to join up themselves) or are you mislabelled?

For an older friend sans IT or smart phn :-/ ...
 
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caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Caius - in order to make any sensible suggestions, it would be helpful if you gave us a bit more information to go on.


Its for a friend, overweight, on metformin, high glycaemia 30mM, psych problems, no IT or smart phn knowledge, husband cooks and hes got his own challenges.

She wants to reduce glycaemia.
I was asked i thought about Dulaglutide which i think is a glucagon pathway inhibitor.
I started to look into and there are alot of trials which compare maybe 2 or 3 different approaches but no comparison of everything simultaneously. Thus one ends using a meta-analysis, eg Zhang 2016 who as someone above suggest show little no signifucant difference between the various approaches.

However i wondered what the perspective was like from patient perspective for people using any of the approaches to manage glycaemia.

Logically keto diet seems to make sense although theres a bit of a cultural adaptation to make which might be more that some people will manage.
 
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caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Thank you all for your input.

The analogy about tap and drain was a good one.
And so carb lowering/ avoiding diet.
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Do you think they would be able to take a low carb diet on board?
 

caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. The best glucose lowering 'agent' is a low-carb diet. There are various tablets that can help including Metformin. Sulphonyl ureas such as Gliclazide and also insulin stimulate insulin production but this may be counterproductive if you are an overweight T2 as you will already have too much insulin but unable to use it efficiently. It's worth noting that Sulphonyl ureas and insulin do not cause weight gain. What they do is enable the body to produce more insulin and if too many carbs are eaten they enable the body to metabolise those carbs and store the glucose as fat if it's not needed.

Thank you.

That was helpful.
 

caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Do you think they would be able to take a low carb diet on board?

I'm not sure. They're not wealthy and both have different psych issues. I agree lo carb wud be their best bet. I raised the idea previously but the friend's husband is the cook. He's a lovely fellow but very abstracted...
 
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caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Glucose lowering agents i.e. drugs do NOT work very well and essentially you're treating symptoms but not the root cause.
So I d say best way is to try low carb or fasting for real health benefits.
Insulin is bad because it makes the disease of insulin resistance worse as do the sulphonyuras (by juicing your insulin producing cells).
The newer classes of drugs such as SGLT in hibitors involve you peeing out some glucose and therefore do not incrase insulin resistance but there again they don' reduce it!

Jason \fung has written a good book explaining all of this ||The Diabetes Code - I like his analogy in which cutting carbs is like turning off your tap in a flood wheeas taking drugs is akin to simply making your drain slightly larger.

(edited by mod)

Thankyou.

Are the modern drugs the glucagon pathway inhibitors like Dulaglutide and the -tides or something else.
With T1D the urinary urge with hi sugars is a bit unpleasant. Obviously it has it has a purpose but i could imagine you'd dehydrate yourself and so increase your glucose conc before you lowered it.
 
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caius2x8

Well-Known Member
Messages
111
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Thankyou.

Are the modern drugs the glucagon pathway inhibitors like Dulaglutide and the -tides or something else.
With T1D the urinary urge with hi sugars is a bit unpleasant. Also with urination of sugars you dont change the bloods remaining concentration assuming your urin sugar concentration matches your bloods before for every x much sugar your expel, you'll explain the amount of water which gives it the measured concentration. I'm not 100% on that, but i think that how it works, hmmm..
 

WAGR57

Well-Known Member
Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Here is a simple plan suggestion in point form.
1: get a glucose monitor
2: with a typical meal that is eaten (before type2), measure your blood glucose before eating the meal.
3: 2 hours after eating the meal, measure the blood glucose again. Note the difference.
4: On the next meal eat any meat and green vegetables( stay away from root veggies until you know more), measure the blood glucose, the same as point 2 and 3. You should see a significant difference in the blood glucose from the two meals.
5: seeing the lower BG level with the meat and veggie meal can help some people see how simple it can be to help correct BG levels.
6: For type2 high ( simple ) carb foods are very harmful to us, Low ( complex ) carb foods are fine.
7: Eating meats and veggies for 3 months will bring the BG A1C down.
8: Research the decease. Lots of good stuff and examples on You Tube.
9: Look into intermittent fasting as a tool to help, there are many variations one can use.

One last thing, for me , my family doctor has not been helpful. I had to research a lot and still don't have all the answer and lots of questions.
 
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