Bernstein et al

[spendercat]

So, who is this Bernstein?
Is he any good? Worth reading?
Have read Barry Groves (who seems a touch paranoid - but that does not mean he is wrong)and Gary Taubes - and was pleased to get a wonderfully rational scientific explanation from the latter for why a low carb diet works so well for me (and apparently others).
When first diagnosed I read Gretchen Becker on the first year with type 2 Diabetes, she is very calming and explained lots of practical things. Incidentally she suggests no diet in particular, just points out that there are several approaches.
As a compulsive reader I am always looking for new titles that are worth reading.

Angela the Bookworm

 

[marti]

Dr Bernstein has diabetes himself. and i also read Gretchen Becker book and i own it

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I read Bernstein and found his approach to be far too restrictive for me and probably 90% of diabetics to follow successfully (for the rest of our lives). I found his book interesting and informative, just not for me.

Taubes and Groves I wouldnt give space on my book shelves too, just a couple of crank theorists with stuff to sell IMHO, make up your own mind.

Gretchen Beckers - "Type 2 Diabetes the first year"
Dr Ragnar Hannas and Dr Charles Fox's - "Type 2 Diabetes"
Jenny Ruhl's - "Blood Sugar 101 - What they dont tell you about diabetes"

The three books above are all excellent and I would thoroughly recommend them to all T2 diabetics.

 

[Carbdodger]

Bernstein was my starting point. Let me understand the point of minimising carbs. I don't do the starchy ones and get mine in the main from green veggies. Keep around 30g a day. Never felt better.
Cd

 

[spendercat]

Thaks for that. I got Jenny Ruhls on my kindle and the Bernstein I have picked up second hand.

 

[Caleb Murdock]

Bernstein is in his 80's. He was a pioneer. He pioneered the concept of patients testing their own blood sugar (patients never did anything like that back in the 50's), and he pioneered the concept of treating diabetes with a low-carb diet. But like so many pioneers, he took the concept to its extreme. His ideal diet has about 30 carbs a day, and he has his patients testing their blood 6-8 times a day. His patients who take insulin will take multiple shots a day to maintain tight control. Even though a normal person's blood sugar may range from 4.5 to 7, he wants his patients to be right at 4.5 all the time, even after they eat. He wasn't even a doctor in the beginning; he was an engineer (I think). He became a doctor so he could spread the word about diabetes.

He's right, of course. The human body can do very well without many carbs. But his advice is impractical because so few people can follow it. I did 30 carbs a day for about 3 days when I tried the Atkins diet. Those are the only days that I have eaten so few carbs, and I never expect to do that again.

Bernstein is American. The name of his book is The Diabetes Solution.

 

[phoenix]

Bernstein, Taubes and Groves are three writers who have huge influence on people who adopt very low carb diets. My views are from another perspective :wink:
Like anything you should read their writings for yourself and decide for yourself.

It's good sometimes to follow up their references. So for example, when I checked what Taubes had said about J Yudkin, I found out he had missed out impotant details as to why his (Yudkins) views on sugar and CVD were dismissed. ( ie references to the scientists of the day who had failed to suport Yudkin's findings, including a trial where the distinguished scientist Richard Doll copied Yudkins protocol entirely but found no significant relationship)
Others more knowledgeable than I have challenged his carbohydrate thesis in detail; most recently here:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2 ... esity.html
The writer is a researcher in the field of neurobiology of body fat regulation and obesity at Washington University

As Caleb suggested many of Bernstein's views on the treatment of diabetes are both controversial and extremely difficult for most people to adopt.
Google: Cheating Destiny Hirsch Bernstein
The first hit is to chapter 8 in this book which focuses on Bernstein .

I haven't read Grove's book, though I have read some of his online articles.I don't find credible anyone who claims an academic quaification that appears to have been bought : http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/07/the ... illusions/

 

[spendercat]

As I said I found Barry Groves a bit paranoid. He tends towards the "Its all a vast international plot" persuasion. However, in all fairness he made no false personal claims about his education in the book. He is an amateur enthusiast, and a bit of a crank, but he tells it like he sees it and writes a lively book.

Taubes is a science journalist, that means he edits and interprets other peoples work. I think he put a great deal of research into his book, and he arrived at conclusions about a healthy diet that are borne out by direct experience within the diabetic community.

I also occasionally read the holford blogspot - and I think the piece you referred to very clearly expresses the current view that obesity is caused by excess calories and underactivity, not by disturbed insulin levels.

 

[Dougie22]

I have read and own two of the books mentioned above by Sid and would recommend them.

Gretchen Beckers - "Type 2 Diabetes the first year"
Jenny Ruhl's - "Blood Sugar 101 - What they dont tell you about diabetes"

Beckers book, though IMHO, suffers from a lack of specifics when it discusses self testing, etc. I would have liked a section which basically gave the NICE guidelines or equivelant (as per this sites newby info), perhaps in a chapter called "self testing - what are the targets and how do you achieve them"

Ruhl's book is much better in this respect. Although she personnally advocates what some would consider very low BS level targets, she also gives you other body's recommendations.The units used seem to be in "american" so I had to convert them.

For anyone wanting a controversial view on statins, I'd recommend Kendrik's "the Great Cholesterol Con"

 

[SparkJack]

I was diagnosed as T2 about 5 years ago. I have only recently adopted the lower carb approach and have on average 60g a day. I wish I had been able to read The Diabetes Revolution by Dr Charles Clark and Maureen Clark then. It is simple in its description of diabetes, gives a concise approach to food and provides sensible eating plans.It was published in 2008. It knits very easily with the South Beach diet cookbooks. Very clear carb count for each recipe. £10.99

 

[jopar]

Bernstein is in his 80's. He was a pioneer. He pioneered the concept of patients testing their own blood sugar (patients never did anything like that back in the 50's), and he pioneered the concept of treating diabetes with a low-carb diet. But like so many pioneers, he took the concept to its extreme. His ideal diet has about 30 carbs a day, and he has his patients testing their blood 6-8 times a day. His patients who take insulin will take multiple shots a day to maintain tight control. Even though a normal person's blood sugar may range from 4.5 to 7, he wants his patients to be right at 4.5 all the time, even after they eat. He wasn't even a doctor in the beginning; he was an engineer (I think). He became a doctor so he could spread the word about diabetes.

Berstein wasn't a pioneer at all, yes he had access to a meter via his wife who is a doctor! when such machines cost a lot of money, home testing started a long time before that with the very crude urine test, then the BM stick and now meters..

His patients do not test 6-8 times a day, they do at the begining but his believe if you follow his instructions then once you sorted out your regime then you only need to check once a fortnight to check everything is ticking along!

He's right, of course. The human body can do very well without many carbs. But his advice is impractical because so few people can follow it. I did 30 carbs a day for about 3 days when I tried the Atkins diet. Those are the only days that I have eaten so few carbs, and I never expect to do that again.

Bernstein is American. The name of his book is The Diabetes Solution.

I suggest that you google his website and check out his forum...

This shows very well how difficult it can be to follow his regime, and that even if you are able to follow it that the promise of perfect blood glucose control can be pretty empty indeed!

Yes Bernstien was an engineer and that pretty much shows in how he flogs his regime, as he really hasn't left this field behind. Take note he treats the human body though it's a robot or a car engin, but and works the same.. So when the wiring goes duff you replace the wiring and it all works again!

If you want good control, learn about carbs etc then starting testing to build your own regime..

 

[Caleb Murdock]

I don't agree with the words you've stuck into my quoted post (in blue). I read in his book only recently that testing should be done every day, not every fortnight (even after you've settled on a treatment routine), and I stand by my opinion that he was a pioneer in this field. Testing should, of course, be done every day, unless you eat exactly the same foods all the time.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Testing should, of course, be done every day, unless you eat exactly the same foods all the time.

That is a very sweeping statement Caleb, I agree that in the early stages when you need to get your db under control that testing is of paramount importance but once you have the knowledge and the control then it becomes less important, In the first year of my db I was testing 8 times a day, but now after 3 years of fairly tight control I rarely test more than one or two meals a week (before and after) and sometimes dont test for a fortnight and my A1c's are always in the 5%'s.

Now if I was still on insulin or some other hypo inducing medication then I would test more often for safety sake but what is the point of testing when I can guess to within a % or so what my levels will be. Oh and I dont always eat the same foods but I know pretty much exactly what the foods I do eat are going to do to my numbers so can stick to the portions I know I can eat without spiking my BG.

 

[Grazer]

Testing should, of course, be done every day, unless you eat exactly the same foods all the time.

That is a very sweeping statement Caleb, I agree that in the early stages when you need to get your db under control that testing is of paramount importance but once you have the knowledge and the control then it becomes less important, In the first year of my db I was testing 8 times a day, but now after 3 years of fairly tight control I rarely test more than one or two meals a week (before and after) and sometimes dont test for a fortnight and my A1c's are always in the 5%'s.

Now if I was still on insulin or some other hypo inducing medication then I would test more often for safety sake but what is the point of testing when I can guess to within a % or so what my levels will be. Oh and I dont always eat the same foods but I know pretty much exactly what the foods I do eat are going to do to my numbers so can stick to the portions I know I can eat without spiking my BG.

This is a nightmare. Twice today I've found myself agreeing with Sid (on another thread as well as this). Having worked out how various foodstuffs affect me, I now only test:
When I find something new to eat
When I do something "different", like eat at a totally different time or cook in a totally different way or leave a certain thing out
Now and again to ensure things aren't changing.

Like Sid, I did loads of testing up front to work things out first, but can't see the point of making holes in myself when I'm not in danger of hypos (those who are obviously need to test continually) and when I pretty much know what the result will be.

 

[Caleb Murdock]

There's no point in disagreeing about this. If some diabetics get to the point where they don't need to test more than once a fortnight, that's great. But my diet is varied enough, and my liver and pancreas are unpredictable enough, that I'll always want to know what's going on with my blood.

 

[Grazer]

There's no point in disagreeing about this. If some diabetics get to the point where they don't need to test more than once a fortnight, that's great. But my diet is varied enough, and my liver and pancreas are unpredictable enough, that I'll always want to know what's going on with my blood.

I think actually we're agreeing. I have a very varied diet, but I've seen what all the combinations do and have eradicated through testing the foods that disagree with me. So I know what's going on with my blood, near enough at least. But I might be lucky. I see you're on insulin, so obviously you'd need to test more often. Each to our own eh?

 

[reidpj]

'Wheat Belly' by William Davis (MD) is another good read - although not diabetic specific.