Type 2 Remission potential anyone..?

[Detritus]

Hi all.
I had my first 3 month review today.
I was 'Prediabetic' in Dec 17 but did little about it . By pure chance an accidental A & E visit on January 2020 showed BS of 14.7! Consultant referred me for HbA1c tests that were 64. fasting lipids were 7.8. Somewhere in the last two years I'd slipped into Type 2 Territory.

I was shocked! No symptoms etc. Weight was 119kg. 6"4' height. BMI of 32. BP high side of normal
Much anger, confusion and radical fasting followed. Removed all sugars and carbs..
2nd HbA1c test of 63 confirmed diagnosis. Started 500mg x 2 Metformin immediately but resisted pressure to take ACE inhibitors, Statins and sulfonylureas.

3 months later.. and the results are in.. HbA1c is now 43. Fasting lipids down to 5.7. BP normal. I'm now 99kg, lost 40 pounds. BMI now 27, aiming for 24.
No need for those drugs they tried to push and hoping to kick Metformin soon.
My regular BG strip tests (fasting mainly) is between 5.4 and 6) ..
I'm really chuffed!

Is my above case history an indication that remission might be likely? I need a win and something to look forward to, this 3 month journey has been really hard.
According to experts,and the consultant who researched and came up with that Newcastle diet, they say that if you can catch it in the first two years, if you 'go medieval' on it and radical, there's a chance you can retain Beta cell function, free up fat from pancreas and liver, and then go onto remission thus reducing likelihood of complications later in life. Has anyone else here had this outcome or can anyone offer feedback please?
Thanks in advance.

 

[HSSS]

Hi all.
I had my first 3 month review today.
I was 'Prediabetic' in Dec 17 but did little about it . By pure chance an accidental A & E visit on January 2020 showed BS of 14.7! Consultant referred me for HbA1c tests that were 64. fasting lipids were 7.8. Somewhere in the last two years I'd slipped into Type 2 Territory.

I was shocked! No symptoms etc. Weight was 119kg. 6"4' height. BMI of 32. BP high side of normal
Much anger, confusion and radical fasting followed. Removed all sugars and carbs..
2nd HbA1c test of 63 confirmed diagnosis. Started 500mg x 2 Metformin immediately but resisted pressure to take ACE inhibitors, Statins and sulfonylureas.

3 months later.. and the results are in.. HbA1c is now 43. Fasting lipids down to 5.7. BP normal. I'm now 99kg, lost 40 pounds. BMI now 27, aiming for 24.
No need for those drugs they tried to push and hoping to kick Metformin soon.
My regular BG strip tests (fasting mainly) is between 5.4 and 6) ..
I'm really chuffed!

Is my above case history an indication that remission might be likely? I need a win and something to look forward to, this 3 month journey has been really hard.
According to experts,and the consultant who researched and came up with that Newcastle diet, they say that if you can catch it in the first two years, if you 'go medieval' on it and radical, there's a chance you can retain Beta cell function, free up fat from pancreas and liver, and then go onto remission thus reducing likelihood of complications later in life. Has anyone else here had this outcome or can anyone offer feedback please?
Thanks in advance.

Well done. Depending on who’s definition listen to you might already be classed as in remission. 43 is not a diagnosable level It is prediabetic. Some definitions want under 48 some under 42. Some have time criteria of maintenance, some allow metformin.

There are people around that have been on even insulin for years and achieved remission so anything is possible. From what I have seen in here the first couple of years thing is pretty unambitious with many long diagnosed people achieving remission. The Newcastle method is extreme in my opinion and low carb far less ninja. And personally from all my reading visceral fat is one common factor but certainly not the only one for everyone.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi all.
I had my first 3 month review today.
I was 'Prediabetic' in Dec 17 but did little about it . By pure chance an accidental A & E visit on January 2020 showed BS of 14.7! Consultant referred me for HbA1c tests that were 64. fasting lipids were 7.8. Somewhere in the last two years I'd slipped into Type 2 Territory.

I was shocked! No symptoms etc. Weight was 119kg. 6"4' height. BMI of 32. BP high side of normal
Much anger, confusion and radical fasting followed. Removed all sugars and carbs..
2nd HbA1c test of 63 confirmed diagnosis. Started 500mg x 2 Metformin immediately but resisted pressure to take ACE inhibitors, Statins and sulfonylureas.

3 months later.. and the results are in.. HbA1c is now 43. Fasting lipids down to 5.7. BP normal. I'm now 99kg, lost 40 pounds. BMI now 27, aiming for 24.
No need for those drugs they tried to push and hoping to kick Metformin soon.
My regular BG strip tests (fasting mainly) is between 5.4 and 6) ..
I'm really chuffed!

Is my above case history an indication that remission might be likely? I need a win and something to look forward to, this 3 month journey has been really hard.
According to experts,and the consultant who researched and came up with that Newcastle diet, they say that if you can catch it in the first two years, if you 'go medieval' on it and radical, there's a chance you can retain Beta cell function, free up fat from pancreas and liver, and then go onto remission thus reducing likelihood of complications later in life. Has anyone else here had this outcome or can anyone offer feedback please?
Thanks in advance.

Just keep in mind that this is a "forever" kind of thing. If you go back to eating carbs, the same thing will happen again. And remission, well, there's so many definitions.... I didn't call it that until I was in the normal range and without any medication for a couple of years, but... That was personal. My doc'll never class me as such because she doesn't "believe in it", and I do agree with her on the "once a diabetic, always a diabetic". But I am a-symptomatic, medication free and well-controlled. If i can call that remission, even if only on the forum, then I will! And you should too. Yes, it is a goal, and yes, it is an achievable one. Heck, you're on the brink, if not already there!

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi all.
I had my first 3 month review today.
I was 'Prediabetic' in Dec 17 but did little about it . By pure chance an accidental A & E visit on January 2020 showed BS of 14.7! Consultant referred me for HbA1c tests that were 64. fasting lipids were 7.8. Somewhere in the last two years I'd slipped into Type 2 Territory.

I was shocked! No symptoms etc. Weight was 119kg. 6"4' height. BMI of 32. BP high side of normal
Much anger, confusion and radical fasting followed. Removed all sugars and carbs..
2nd HbA1c test of 63 confirmed diagnosis. Started 500mg x 2 Metformin immediately but resisted pressure to take ACE inhibitors, Statins and sulfonylureas.

3 months later.. and the results are in.. HbA1c is now 43. Fasting lipids down to 5.7. BP normal. I'm now 99kg, lost 40 pounds. BMI now 27, aiming for 24.
No need for those drugs they tried to push and hoping to kick Metformin soon.
My regular BG strip tests (fasting mainly) is between 5.4 and 6) ..

I'm really chuffed!

Is my above case history an indication that remission might be likely? I need a win and something to look forward to, this 3 month journey has been really hard.
According to experts,and the consultant who researched and came up with that Newcastle diet, they say that if you can catch it in the first two years, if you 'go medieval' on it and radical, there's a chance you can retain Beta cell function, free up fat from pancreas and liver, and then go onto remission thus reducing likelihood of complications later in life. Has anyone else here had this outcome or can anyone offer feedback please?
Thanks in advance.

Congrats, @Detritus. Fabulous results and very well deserved. Lots of hard work.

There is no reason to expect that results shouldn't be long-term -- specially if you have a plan for what will come after you have reached your desired weight and reduced your fasting.

Many of us T2s on the site who have been in remission (i.e. have normal blood sugars) have reduced carb intake significantly. How much we reduce carbs is a matter of how broken our metabolism is and personal preference.

Personally, I'm on less than 20g a day and enjoy this way of eating. I was also diagnosed with an HbA1c much higher than yours (100 mmol) and have been seeing normal levels (between 29 mmol and 36 mmol) for the last five years. So, it can definitely be done.

As to the science you quote -- yes, based on my reading of the scientific literature, fatty pancreas and fatty liver contribute a huge deal to insulin resistance (I am sure you have looked at the work of Roy Taylor). Fatty pancreas seems to lead to a dedifferentiation of beta cells into delta cells and make alpha cells, which are responsible for releasing glucagon, resistant to insulin. Fatty liver makes the liver resistant to the effects of insulin, thus it keeps releasing additional glucose into the blood in spite of already high blood sugar levels (this seems to be the primary problem in T2s).

Losing weight does help with reducing fat in these organs, but also low carbing, even in the absence of weight loss, seems to have pretty much the same effect (see, for example, the results of the Virta Health studies on liver enzymes GGT, ALT and AST as well as the experiments by Robert Lustig on kids with fatty liver on a non-sugar diet).

It also seems to be true that the earlier after diagnosis you start changing the way you eat, the easier reversal is. However, there have also been reports of T2s on insulin twenty years after diagnosis who have been able to return to normal blood sugar levels after changing their way of eating. So, it's never too late to try.

So, to conclude -- congrats again on all your hard work and the brilliant results.

 

[Detritus]

Well done. Depending on who’s definition listen to you might already be classed as in remission. 43 is not a diagnosable level It is prediabetic. Some definitions want under 48 some under 42. Some have time criteria of maintenance, some allow metformin.

There are people around that have been on even insulin for years and achieved remission so anything is possible. From what I have seen in here the first couple of years thing is pretty unambitious with many long diagnosed people achieving remission. The Newcastle method is extreme in my opinion and low carb far less ninja. And personally from all my reading visceral fat is one common factor but certainly not the only one for everyone.

Thank you

 

[Detritus]

Just keep in mind that this is a "forever" kind of thing. If you go back to eating carbs, the same thing will happen again. And remission, well, there's so many definitions.... I didn't call it that until I was in the normal range and without any medication for a couple of years, but... That was personal. My doc'll never class me as such because she doesn't "believe in it", and I do agree with her on the "once a diabetic, always a diabetic". But I am a-symptomatic, medication free and well-controlled. If i can call that remission, even if only on the forum, then I will! And you should too. Yes, it is a goal, and yes, it is an achievable one. Heck, you're on the brink, if not already there!

Thank you

 

[Detritus]

Congrats, @Detritus. Fabulous results and very well deserved. Lots of hard work.

There is no reason to expect that results shouldn't be long-term -- specially if you have a plan for what will come after you have reached your desired weight and reduced your fasting.

Many of us T2s on the site who have been in remission (i.e. have normal blood sugars) have reduced carb intake significantly. How much we reduce carbs is a matter of how broken our metabolism is and personal preference.

Personally, I'm on less than 20g a day and enjoy this way of eating. I was also diagnosed with an HbA1c much higher than yours (100 mmol) and have been seeing normal levels (between 29 mmol and 36 mmol) for the last five years. So, it can definitely be done.

As to the science you quote -- yes, based on my reading of the scientific literature, fatty pancreas and fatty liver contribute a huge deal to insulin resistance (I am sure you have looked at the work of Roy Taylor). Fatty pancreas seems to lead to a dedifferentiation of beta cells into delta cells and make alpha cells, which are responsible for releasing glucagon, resistant to insulin. Fatty liver makes the liver resistant to the effects of insulin, thus it keeps releasing additional glucose into the blood in spite of already high blood sugar levels (this seems to be the primary problem in T2s).

Losing weight does help with reducing fat in these organs, but also low carbing, even in the absence of weight loss, seems to have pretty much the same effect (see, for example, the results of the Virta Health studies on liver enzymes GGT, ALT and AST as well as the experiments by Robert Lustig on kids with fatty liver on a non-sugar diet).

It also seems to be true that the earlier after diagnosis you start changing the way you eat, the easier reversal is. However, there have also been reports of T2s on insulin twenty years after diagnosis who have been able to return to normal blood sugar levels after changing their way of eating. So, it's never too late to try.

So, to conclude -- congrats again on all your hard work and the brilliant results.

Thanks for that, plenty of research for me to do.. all very encouraging

 

[Resurgam]

I am about three years ahead of you - was diagnosed late 2016.
I still eat a low carb diet - because I feel so well on it, why would I want to go back to the stodge?
The salad, stir fries and roasted veges are tasty and easy to cook, I have meat fish eggs and cheese, yoghurt and cream. My appetite is small - I have to be careful not to waste food even in lockdown, as it is so nutritious that some days even two meals is too much. It isn't like dieting though - I will never go back to a low calorie low fat diet.
I do check my BG levels from time to time when I think I ought to, and I usually find I am in normal limits - the last time I found I was high was after eating some very sweet small tomatoes which were going soft - I should have cooked them and used them over a couple of days in soups or sauces.
I use swede cauliflower and courgette quite a bit - they are good low carb alternatives and I actually prefer them to rice and potatoes etc.

 

[bulkbiker]

Has anyone else here had this outcome or can anyone offer feedback please?

Yes but I did it through some intermittent fasting and an ultra low carb diet. Lots of meat these days and little else.
Passed almost every diagnostic test for T2 apart from slightly elevated insulin resistance.
Numbers in signature.

 

[Detritus]

Yes but I did it through some intermittent fasting and an ultra low carb diet. Lots of meat these days and little else.
Passed almost every diagnostic test for T2 apart from slightly elevated insulin resistance.
Numbers in signature.

Cheers for the good news. I think I'm worried about maintaining the drop in cholesterol especially if in increase meat, eggs and dairy which all help satisfy my appetite.

 

[bulkbiker]

Cheers for the good news. I think I'm worried about maintaining the drop in cholesterol especially if in increase meat, eggs and dairy which all help satisfy my appetite.

Cholesterol is a deep and complex subject but its the ratios that are more meaningful than the total and a CAC scan is far more revealing.

If you want to go there then..

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cholesterol-and-statins.156985/

 

[Detritus]

Cholesterol is a deep and complex subject but its the ratios that are more meaningful than the total and a CAC scan is far more revealing.

If you want to go there then..

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cholesterol-and-statins.156985/

Serum cholesterol 5.7
HDL 1.22
Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 4.7

I know it needs to change, hopefully before the diabetes nurse tries to push Statins onto me

 

[bulkbiker]

Serum cholesterol 5.7
HDL 1.22
Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 4.7

I know it needs to change, hopefully before the diabetes nurse tries to push Statins onto me

Trig/HDL ratio is the important one.. and it's up to you which medication you take not your doctor/DN.