Diabetes and statins

Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi everyone,

So after speaking to the nurse today my hba1c has gone from 85 to 64 currently on 500mg metfomin twice a day. My cholesterol is 5.4 and she has told me I need to start statins because I'm diabetic and my cholesterol is high. Is anyone else on statins with that sort of level? I'm a bit scared to take them, she has also upped my metformin to 1g twice a day. Diagnosed with diabetes last November and this is the first time I have spoken to her. Feeling very anxious and down


I'd find a more progressive nurse, it would appear that this one is stuck in a time warp! Do some research for yourself on a low carb or even Keto diet. These have been known to reverse the symptoms of diabetes, or more accurately, put it in remission, for many of us.
A new diagnosis of diabetes needs a lot of advice and support, and it seems that yours has been lacking.
Try the DiatDoctor website for loads of info on both ways of eating, plus the Low Carb Programme on here has had huge success and is award winning.
Don't just accept what ill informed people tell you, you have made great strides already in lowering your HBA1c!
 
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Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
If you are in England I'm not sure they can refuse.
Alcohol might have an effect too but as I haven't had an alcoholic drink for 12 years I'm not too sure.

Yes, alcohol has carbs in it, if it was beer, cider, lager, alcopops, even wine, they all have carbs in them. As diabetics we do not process carbs properly, so alcohol will just have the same effect as sugar. Spirits do not have carbs, so a low carb drink could be a spirit with a no sugar mixer.. Alcohol in large amounts will damage the liver and the pancreas, so your body will find it difficult to process the carbs efficiently, and it will have a detrimental effect on your HBA1c. you should also be careful if on any other diabetic medication, because it can lower your sugars by too much, so you can end up hypo......
 

Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
I'm going to speak to a gp tomorrow as me losing weight and exercising more first never seemed to be an option.

Amycav85, I think your GP staff are way behind the times, especially that nurse! I think I'd push for referral to an endocrinologist. You should also have access to a Diabetes Specialist Nurse(it certainky doesn't sound like the nurse at the surgery is one of those!)There are other tests that can be done. Are they positive you are a Type 2 diabetic? There are other forms of diabetes than just Type 1 and 2. It seems that you are being palmed off!
I think if it were me, I'd investigate low carb. Most people eat a huge amount of carbs and sugar without realising, and sometimes even very small changes can make a huge difference to blood sugar.
Do you check your bloods with a meter? That's a good way to open your eyes regarding the effects of common foods on blood sugar.......I'd bet your nurse would say no, but.......otherwise how are you going to know?
Meters are generally fairly cheap, and strips tend to be more expensive. There are threads on here which will recommend one and strips if you are interested.
 
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Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
I'd find a more progressive nurse, it would appear that this one is stuck in a time warp! Do some research for yourself on a low carb or even Keto diet. These have been known to reverse the symptoms of diabetes, or more accurately, put it in remission, for many of us.
A new diagnosis of diabetes needs a lot of advice and support, and it seems that yours has been lacking.
Try the DietDoctor website for loads of info on both ways of eating, plus the Low Carb Programme on here has had huge success and is award winning.
Don't just accept what ill informed people tell you, you have made great strides already in lowering your HBA1c!
 

DorsetJon

Member
Messages
14
Type of diabetes
Type 1
I agree with Zilsniggy’s (and others') comments. I am not impressed with the treatment you have had so far. You should first have had a full blood lipid profile done and you should then have been given the opportunity to discuss the results with a diabetes expert (from what you’ve said, the nurse is not one of these). The diabetes doctor should then have taken into account any other risk factors for cardiovascular disease that you may have before deciding whether to recommend that you take a statin. As a 34-year old woman, your risk of heart disease is likely to be extremely low, even if your cholesterol level is a bit higher than is recommended, so I am rather surprised you have been advised to take a statin. Even if statins were to be advised, it is usually better to start on a low dose (e.g. 10 mg atorvastatin) to see if you can tolerate this (i.e. with no side effects) and to measure the effects of this dose on your cholesterol level, before upping the dose in steps if necessary. (I am on 40 mg, with no side effects, but I was first given 10 and then 20 mg)

Having said all this, the first step would be to try to reduce your type 2 diabetes, and possibly even reverse it, through a change in your diet. You would definitely not then have to take a statin. On this website and others you will find a lot of advice and information about the dietary changes that can help to achieve this.
 
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Amycav85

Active Member
Messages
40
I'd find a more progressive nurse, it would appear that this one is stuck in a time warp! Do some research for yourself on a low carb or even Keto diet. These have been known to reverse the symptoms of diabetes, or more accurately, put it in remission, for many of us.
A new diagnosis of diabetes needs a lot of advice and support, and it seems that yours has been lacking.
Try the DiatDoctor website for loads of info on both ways of eating, plus the Low Carb Programme on here has had huge success and is award winning.
Don't just accept what ill informed people tell you, you have made great strides already in lowering your HBA1c!
Apparently she's been the diabetic lead nurse for 30 years! Scary really when she told me it's ok to eat carbs as long as I stick to 2 slices of bread. I'm definitely researching for myself
 

Amycav85

Active Member
Messages
40
Amycav85, I think your GP staff are way behind the times, especially that nurse! I think I'd push for referral to an endocrinologist. You should also have access to a Diabetes Specialist Nurse(it certainky doesn't sound like the nurse at the surgery is one of those!)There are other tests that can be done. Are they positive you are a Type 2 diabetic? There are other forms of diabetes than just Type 1 and 2. It seems that you are being palmed off!
I think if it were me, I'd investigate low carb. Most people eat a huge amount of carbs and sugar without realising, and sometimes even very small changes can make a huge difference to blood sugar.
Do you check your bloods with a meter? That's a good way to open your eyes regarding the effects of common foods on blood sugar.......I'd bet your nurse would say no, but.......otherwise how are you going to know?
Meters are generally fairly cheap, and strips tend to be more expensive. There are threads on here which will recommend one and strips if you are interested.
I was given a meter by the nurses at my work and when I asked my practice for the test strips they said no as its not needed for type 2 my mum is registered where I work and she has test strips on repeat prescription. I have ordered more strips online, I can't get over the price of them though!
 

Amycav85

Active Member
Messages
40
I agree with Zilsniggy’s (and others') comments. I am not impressed with the treatment you have had so far. You should first have had a full blood lipid profile done and you should then have been given the opportunity to discuss the results with a diabetes expert (from what you’ve said, the nurse is not one of these). The diabetes doctor should then have taken into account any other risk factors for cardiovascular disease that you may have before deciding whether to recommend that you take a statin. As a 34-year old woman, your risk of heart disease is likely to be extremely low, even if your cholesterol level is a bit higher than is recommended, so I am rather surprised you have been advised to take a statin. Even if statins were to be advised, it is usually better to start on a low dose (e.g. 10 mg atorvastatin) to see if you can tolerate this (i.e. with no side effects) and to measure the effects of this dose on your cholesterol level, before upping the dose in steps if necessary. (I am on 40 mg, with no side effects, but I was first given 10 and then 20 mg)

Having said all this, the first step would be to try to reduce your type 2 diabetes, and possibly even reverse it, through a change in your diet. You would definitely not then have to take a statin. On this website and others you will find a lot of advice and information about the dietary changes that can help to achieve this.
I agree with everything you have said. I was quite surprised about the statins that they didn't let me try with diet and exercise first as my hba1c is coming down as it should. I'm now on 1g metformin twice a day and my word the change in dose hasn't made me feel very well at all, Im hoping it'll settle down soon though. The nurse has apparently been the diabetic lead nurse for 30 years.... I'm tempted to change surgeries.
 

KK123

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,967
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I agree with everything you have said. I was quite surprised about the statins that they didn't let me try with diet and exercise first as my hba1c is coming down as it should. I'm now on 1g metformin twice a day and my word the change in dose hasn't made me feel very well at all, Im hoping it'll settle down soon though. The nurse has apparently been the diabetic lead nurse for 30 years.... I'm tempted to change surgeries.

Well you could but I suspect those diabetes specialists are pretty much the same all over. You are doing the right thing, researching it for yourself. YOU decide whether you want to take statins and whether you want to eat carbs or not. You don't have to justify or explain anything to the nurse if you don't want to, usually all they focus on is whether your levels are coming down which they probably will be given your approach. If you do have a chatty Nurse then you can either tell her straight what YOU have decided to do or say nothing at all and let the figures speak for themselves. x
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I was given a meter by the nurses at my work and when I asked my practice for the test strips they said no as its not needed for type 2 my mum is registered where I work and she has test strips on repeat prescription. I have ordered more strips online, I can't get over the price of them though!
Which meter do you have.. the Tee2 from spirithealthcare is fairly cheap to run and I've found it very accurate.
Strips are £7.75 for 50

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/collections/tee2
 
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Amycav85

Active Member
Messages
40
Well you could but I suspect those diabetes specialists are pretty much the same all over. You are doing the right thing, researching it for yourself. YOU decide whether you want to take statins and whether you want to eat carbs or not. You don't have to justify or explain anything to the nurse if you don't want to, usually all they focus on is whether your levels are coming down which they probably will be given your approach. If you do have a chatty Nurse then you can either tell her straight what YOU have decided to do or say nothing at all and let the figures speak for themselves. x
At first when she mentioned statins she definitely panicked me into thinking I was going to have a heart attack or stroke if I didn't take them but after seeing how others have changed their cholesterol levels by eating well and moving more I realised I have to give that a go first. I'm on steroids as I have ulcerative colitis and really don't want to add more medication to the list if I can help it especially with all the side effects people suffer with on statins x
 
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Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Apparently she's been the diabetic lead nurse for 30 years! Scary really when she told me it's ok to eat carbs as long as I stick to 2 slices of bread. I'm definitely researching for myself

That strikes me that she hasn't kept up with latest research or worse, that she is a low carb denier......I'm a nurse myself, of about the same vintage, so really, there's no excuse for ignorance when you're advising so many people. This makes me quite angry. You won't be getting any up to date advice from her, by the sound of things!
 

Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
I was given a meter by the nurses at my work and when I asked my practice for the test strips they said no as its not needed for type 2 my mum is registered where I work and she has test strips on repeat prescription. I have ordered more strips online, I can't get over the price of them though!

The test strips can be expensive! But if you can't test, how are you supposed to manage your condition? I bet they're of the opinion that it will make you 'anxious' or more likely, cost the practice money. Any chance of moving to another practice? Or is there any one of the doctors who is more sympathetic? I don't understand their reasoning at all. I bet they only offer a yearly HBA1c as well.......that's a long time to wait before you know whether lifestyle and diet changes you make are likely to be effective, and in my opinion a shocking disregard for your health.
 

Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
I agree with everything you have said. I was quite surprised about the statins that they didn't let me try with diet and exercise first as my hba1c is coming down as it should. I'm now on 1g metformin twice a day and my word the change in dose hasn't made me feel very well at all, Im hoping it'll settle down soon though. The nurse has apparently been the diabetic lead nurse for 30 years.... I'm tempted to change surgeries.

Take your metformin with food, make sure you have something in your stomach when you take it. If it is still causing issues, and this is very common, ask for the tablets to be changed to slow the release version. These practice nurses ARE NOT Diabetes Specialist Nurses, there is a very different course for that. These practice nurses do a very much shortened course which doesn't qualify them for the title of Diabetes Specialist, The DS nurses usually work in hospitals as part of the endocrinology teams, and you generally need to be referred to them by your GP.
 

Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Apparently she's been the diabetic lead nurse for 30 years! Scary really when she told me it's ok to eat carbs as long as I stick to 2 slices of bread. I'm definitely researching for myself


That is shocking advice! She clearly is out of her depth as 'lead diabetic nurse' I'd be really angry and complaining about her. How many diabetic lives has she ruined, I wonder........
 

Amycav85

Active Member
Messages
40
Take your metformin with food, make sure you have something in your stomach when you take it. If it is still causing issues, and this is very common, ask for the tablets to be changed to slow the release version. These practice nurses ARE NOT Diabetes Specialist Nurses, there is a very different course for that. These practice nurses do a very much shortened course which doesn't qualify them for the title of Diabetes Specialist, The DS nurses usually work in hospitals as part of the endocrinology teams, and you generally need to be referred to them by your GP.
Thankyou for your replies. I'm already on modified release as I have ulcerative colitis I have been taking them just after food but it seems the dose increase is causing me a bit of grief but I only started last week so I'm hoping it settles down soon. To be honest I've never liked this nurse anyway she's very patronising, I moved my daughter to the surgery where I work so she doesn't have to see her for her asthma review. I was also told pasta rice potatoes etc are ok as long as no bigger than my palm.
 

Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Amycav85, I'd be very surprised if this nurse has any further qualifications than her basic RGN.......she certainly doesn't appear to have any clear idea of how to treat diabetic patients I hope her knowledge of asthma is better! I'd take the dose increase very slowly, given your UC, perhaps up it to two in the morning and leave it at one at night for a while until your body gets used to it, then try increasing the evening dose, rather than trying to increase it all at once...... although that is just a suggestion, and should be done in conjunction with your GP's advice.......as should any medication change.
 
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Amycav85

Active Member
Messages
40
Amycav85, I'd be very surprised if this nurse has any further qualifications than her basic RGN.......she certainly doesn't appear to have any clear idea of how to treat diabetic patients I hope her knowledge of asthma is better! I'd take the dose increase very slowly, given your UC, perhaps up it to two in the morning and leave it at one at night for a while until your body gets used to it, then try increasing the evening dose, rather than trying to increase it all at once...... although that is just a suggestion, and should be done in conjunction with your GP's advice.......as should any medication change.
I wish you were my nurse! I also wondered why she didn't try me on x3 500mg tablets daily first instead of 2g daily! I feel very very sick, stomach cramps and can't keep off the loo (which I suffer with anyway due to uc but it's definitely worse right now)
 
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Zilsniggy

Well-Known Member
Messages
428
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
I wish you were my nurse! I also wondered why she didn't try me on x3 500mg tablets daily first instead of 2g daily! I feel very very sick, stomach cramps and can't keep off the loo (which I suffer with anyway due to uc but it's definitely worse right now)

I'm sure you wouldn't want me for your nurse! Although I often think that non diabetic nurses have no real idea of the condition....you wouldn't want me bullying you, I'm quite sure!

I'd take things slowly, make small changes, measure what you're doing with your blood sugar meter as you go, and take notes. It might amaze you what some foods do to your blood sugar! It also helps to take notes, because you then have proof to show medical staff your improvement. It may be that this nurse is rushing you and trying to get your results to lower too quickly, these changes don't all happen in a day or even a week, sometimes. Rome wasn't built in a day!

The other advantage of low carb and very low carb diets is that they help to clear inflammation from the body, so it might be the way to go for your UC as well as your diabetes, since UC is also an inflammatory condition?

There are plenty of doctors who support low carb now, David Unwin, Richard Bernstein,Aseem Malhotra(cardiologist...interesting to see his views on cholesterol!)....loads, in fact, so find these people online and read what they have to say. From what you've said, it will be easy to baffle your nurse with the actual science, and have answers for her to shut her up.

Good luck, I'm sure you will get the hang of this and make a success of your own care.:)
 
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