Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Dusty911

Well-Known Member
Messages
82
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
What the government are doing if you listen carefully are blaming the resurgence directly on the public and their families. They don't want you meeting up with your family at home . You're not spending any money and saving the economy.
So with the lockdown in the North you get the absurd situation that you can go to the pub but not meet your family in your garden. Guess which one is more likely to cost you money and then think which is more likely to transmit Covid.
 
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Dusty911

Well-Known Member
Messages
82
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
They are saying their data shows transmission within families is higher than between strangers but I have yet to see the figures for outside transmission. Also where do those pesky children who can't transmit come into the data?
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,661
What I don't get is the assertion that what was unsafe yesterday now today by government decree is safe.

King Canute commanded the tide to turn back not because he thought he could but to show that he could not

Our government seems to actually believe they can.
Well if it doesn't work, we have a good excuse to run off to our own particular northern Rivendell. :)
 
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JohnEGreen

Master
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13,238
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Other
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Tripe and Onions
There were four pubs in Carlisle and two in Penrith had people with coronavirus in them two weeks ago.
Pubs are not safe.
D.
Don't worry about the pubs they are talking about closing the pubs so they can open the schools maybe the schools should open bars so you could grab a beer when picking your children up from school.
 
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Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
751
I checked out the Gov.UK guidelines for clinically vulnerable people and they have been adapted again to you can go outside as much as you like,mix with others as much as like but try an maintain social distancing,no mention of household or bubbles etc.
It does indeed appear nonsensical when it appears that the risk posed by the virus is still there.
I think the problems lie in several areas.
Tracking and testing not working effectively, we are not 100%sure what is happening in our local area.
Maybe now obesity is a factor the number of those vulnerable is too high to deal with.? Boris has probably just shrugged his shoulders and let people get on with it as best they can.
This governments attitude to anybody vulnerable has been callous for the past 10years,there might have been hope a global pandemic changed things,but sadly not. I think you only have to look at government behaviour over past months from lies to ignorance, the circle of protection for care homes,free school meals,child poverty, "so a few old people might die"., the implication that food poverty is down to laziness or mismanagement. Every area of health and social care was on its last legs before this pandemic,from housing,support for the vulnerable and disabled, secure employment, education. I'm sure some will accuse me of being a Guardian reading liberal. Yes I probably am. I also worked in Research and Campaigns for the Citizens Advice for several years and saw first hand the effects of austerity on people, ordinary people who through no fault of their own found their circumstances had changed and the safety net had all but disappeared. We are I think(I still hope we are not)just dipping our toe in this. If forecasts are true and unemployment will reach never before seen figures an awful lot of people are going to see that £70week to live on is not very doable, that the lovely local council cant pay all of your extortionate rent,that if you are unemployed you will face sanctions, sometimes for not attending a meeting you weren't told was happening etc etc.
I have over the past decade been despondent over the lack of empathy towards those less fortunate or vulnerable, bolstered by stereotypes of the feckless poor and benefit cheats. They do exist but there numbers are minute.
So, a lot of people may be in for a bit of a rude awakening when their furlough ends in redundancy and they realise what is or isnt available.
My heart goes out to those that were shielded. Once again the essence is in the detail if they work. They have to prove their work environment isnt Covid safe which can only be done by attending it. Any government guidelines now are so woolly that not really helpful. SSP has stopped. Some may be able to be signed off by GP. Again it's down to luck and personal circumstances.
I have seen comments on threads deriding people for being scared and hiding away,or commenting that we need to keep the economy going. For those of you are fit and healthy and probably have less to fear just try and be a little compassionate. All it takes is an accident or sudden onset of a serious illness and you too may be thrown to the wolves.

Totally agree. I also think the Government could help (but they won't) by relieving rules and regulations on say pensions. I've got a private pension that I stopped paying into years ago. There is about 12 grand in there so comparing it to my three day a week wage at the school it would cover me for about a year, which "might" be long enough for a vaccine to be around. Problem is I'm not 55 yet so if you take it out early you get taxed on it. Not sure how much but I think it's 40% so as I say the Government aren't giving people too many options.
 
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JRT

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Messages
256
Totally agree. I also think the Government could help (but they won't) by relieving rules and regulations on say pensions. I've got a private pension that I stopped paying into years ago. There is about 12 grand in there so comparing it to my three day a week wage at the school it would cover me for about a year, which "might" be long enough for a vaccine to be around. Problem is I'm not 55 yet so if you take it out early you get taxed on it. Not sure how much but I think it's 40% so as I say the Government aren't giving people too many options.
Sometimes I almost wish the governments actions were down to stupidity as their callousness is beyond belief. Fingers crossed they feel pushed into doing something about schools soon. They will only do something when forced or no other option,well unless you are a small but rich group. I think people are increasingly bewildered why pubs such a priority over other areas. We can only hope that something better comes out of this,and we all stay healthy in meantime. I agree with pensions. A decade ago I would have retired at 60. I dont want to wish my life away but 67 seems very distant. !
 

Dusty911

Well-Known Member
Messages
82
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
As I understand it different households cannot meet in their gardens or go to pubs together.
Yes that's right but what's to stop me happening to be in the pub at the same time as my bro and discussing his possible peerage over a pint
My point is that I'm far less likely to catch Covid from my mum; n her garden than from a work colleague or stranger in a bar in a badly ventilated environment .So called safe environments for transmission seem to have more to do with the economy than the science of the virus.
 
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Em16

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Diet only
Maybe I've been a bit over dramatic but regardless I have sent this letter to my MP.

Dear

I thought I would write to you with regard to my concerns as a diabetic in these strange times with the Coronavirus epidemic.

I ask what the Government plan to do with regard to safeguarding us diabetics, along with other clinically vulnerable people, considering statistics apparently show that 1 in 4 diabetics who end up in hospital die?

On the Government website we diabetics are down as clinically vulnerable and are still advised to stringently social distance. However, I work in a school as a Learning Support Assistant and whilst I have been working at home since late March, (albeit on a reduced hours contract and pay), due to the Government advice at the time, I am due back in September because the Government wants all children back at school and yet it’s absolutely clear and obvious that you cannot social distance correctly and safely in a school.

For sure I am allowed to wear a mask but masks in schools are not mandatory so if I am the only one wearing a mask I am not protected at all because as you know masks are only effective to try and protect others rather than the wearer.

Our school was kept open for children with care plans and those whose parents were key workers but within two weeks the school had a case of Covid so had to shut again. Thankfully I was working from home. So it is plain to see that once September comes and the Autumn/Winter approaches this WILL happen again. Even the Government have admitted to be concerned about a second wave and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that this WILL happen.

My GP has been very sympathetic and feels that I should continue to work from home but is bound by Government guidelines. My school too purely goes by Government advice but as I am sure you would admit Government handling of this epidemic could have been better to be brutally honest so GP’s and Schools are following what is clearly flawed advice.

You are trying to protect the NHS and claim that you are trying to protect the vulnerable but how am I being protected by being forced back into the classroom? I use click and collect for groceries, I social distance if out and have not, and will not visit a shop, barber, restaurant, cinema or pub until we either have a vaccine or some other form of immunity. In a nutshell I can be in control of my own personal risk but I cannot be in control in the workplace which renders my own personal risk strategy as useless. I cannot decide to leave my employment because you cannot claim Universal Credit if you leave your job voluntarily even if by leaving I am potentially saving my life.

At schools there will hundreds/thousands of clinically vulnerable students and staff and come the Autumn Term the idea of sending all back into the classroom will NOT be saving the NHS! I fully understand the mental state and education of children but what will deaths of students or staff do to the mental state of a child?

So I respectfully ask why I am being asked to play a game of Russian Roulette with my health when the Government themselves have classed me as clinically vulnerable but at the same time are forcing me back into a workplace where I cannot be safe?

Kind regards,
 

Em16

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Diet only
Max68, I think that is an excellent letter which sets out the craziness of the guidelines for vulnerable staff and children. If you don't mind, please can I use the template to send to my MP too?

Also, there is this petition, which I got from the other Diabetes website.

Please can as many people as possible sign and send.

Click this link to sign the petition "Extend the furlough scheme for high-risk people who can't safely return to work."

https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/88866746/verify?token=wtSCFHBEzirn2gfmRSA-

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament




Maybe I've been a bit over dramatic but regardless I have sent this letter to my MP.

Dear

I thought I would write to you with regard to my concerns as a diabetic in these strange times with the Coronavirus epidemic.

I ask what the Government plan to do with regard to safeguarding us diabetics, along with other clinically vulnerable people, considering statistics apparently show that 1 in 4 diabetics who end up in hospital die?

On the Government website we diabetics are down as clinically vulnerable and are still advised to stringently social distance. However, I work in a school as a Learning Support Assistant and whilst I have been working at home since late March, (albeit on a reduced hours contract and pay), due to the Government advice at the time, I am due back in September because the Government wants all children back at school and yet it’s absolutely clear and obvious that you cannot social distance correctly and safely in a school.

For sure I am allowed to wear a mask but masks in schools are not mandatory so if I am the only one wearing a mask I am not protected at all because as you know masks are only effective to try and protect others rather than the wearer.

Our school was kept open for children with care plans and those whose parents were key workers but within two weeks the school had a case of Covid so had to shut again. Thankfully I was working from home. So it is plain to see that once September comes and the Autumn/Winter approaches this WILL happen again. Even the Government have admitted to be concerned about a second wave and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that this WILL happen.

My GP has been very sympathetic and feels that I should continue to work from home but is bound by Government guidelines. My school too purely goes by Government advice but as I am sure you would admit Government handling of this epidemic could have been better to be brutally honest so GP’s and Schools are following what is clearly flawed advice.

You are trying to protect the NHS and claim that you are trying to protect the vulnerable but how am I being protected by being forced back into the classroom? I use click and collect for groceries, I social distance if out and have not, and will not visit a shop, barber, restaurant, cinema or pub until we either have a vaccine or some other form of immunity. In a nutshell I can be in control of my own personal risk but I cannot be in control in the workplace which renders my own personal risk strategy as useless. I cannot decide to leave my employment because you cannot claim Universal Credit if you leave your job voluntarily even if by leaving I am potentially saving my life.

At schools there will hundreds/thousands of clinically vulnerable students and staff and come the Autumn Term the idea of sending all back into the classroom will NOT be saving the NHS! I fully understand the mental state and education of children but what will deaths of students or staff do to the mental state of a child?

So I respectfully ask why I am being asked to play a game of Russian Roulette with my health when the Government themselves have classed me as clinically vulnerable but at the same time are forcing me back into a workplace where I cannot be safe?

Kind regards,
 
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Dusty911

Well-Known Member
Messages
82
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Well what a difference a day makes . The papers this morning are full of talk about a possible new lockdown and new lockdown measures. Of particular interest to those with diabetes and concerns about how to return to work is talk about differential lockdown shielding being discussed in government. This would mean vunerable groups still shielding whilst the rest of the population go about their business as usual.
An interesting one to watch for further development I thought.
 
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Andydragon

Well-Known Member
Retired Moderator
Messages
3,324
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Well what a difference a day makes . The papers this morning are full of talk about a possible new lockdown and new lockdown measures. Of particular interest to those with diabetes and concerns about how to return to work is talk about differential lockdown shielding being discussed in government. This would mean vunerable groups still shielding whilst the rest of the population go about their business as usual.
An interesting one to watch for further development I thought.
Yeah... cause they were so interested in opening pubs that they find another way to keep those of us who follow the rules locked away

boris has no idea, worst prime minister ever

I am so fed up of this rubbish
 
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Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
751
Well what a difference a day makes . The papers this morning are full of talk about a possible new lockdown and new lockdown measures. Of particular interest to those with diabetes and concerns about how to return to work is talk about differential lockdown shielding being discussed in government. This would mean vunerable groups still shielding whilst the rest of the population go about their business as usual.
An interesting one to watch for further development I thought.


We were never on the shielding list to start with though, unless these new rumours suggest that might change?
 
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Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
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21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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JRT

Well-Known Member
Messages
256
We were never on the shielding list to start with though, unless these new rumours suggest that might change?
It certainly seems to feel more chaotic by the day. I must admit for the past week I only turn on tv/ radio in the early evening. I check a few sources that seem the most reliable only. Plus this thread. I must admit my sense of wellbeing has gone through the roof.
Even the guidelines on gov.uk are so open to interpretation its laughable. I did see a post mocking them saying you can now meet a goth in your garden shed every other Wednesday as long as it is Chers birthday. Space hoppers are the recommended form of transport. It was very funny but also quite terrifying as the government are so inept it might as well be policy.
I imagine any competent government, which we havent got,would be daunted with how to deal with this complex and terrible situation.
In the early days the shielding list was hastily drawn up with people added that needn't be and vice versa. Even in a few short months we have more insight in to how this affects people .
I doubt Boris knows much about those who are shielded and to be honest apart from lip service to their situation I'm certain he cares even less. The whole idea of shielding was to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and nothing to do with wellbeing of those individuals.
We now know more about the groups that are affected. It's down to age,ethnicity,underlying health conditions with social deprivation and BMI with level of exposure thrown in. I would say that's a large amount of frontline/low paid/disenfranchised people.
To lockdown those people is probably complex. Maybe a preferable option is to put in legislation to protect people who want it. I think we all know of people who despite being at risk are determined to carry on regardless, maybe that should be their choice. For those that are high risk and increase that risk by having to use public transport/frontline jobs with high exposure etc offer them financial protection from being forced into work
As for the wider population I think the long term affects of the virus are not widely understood or documented enough.
I dont think you can blame a particular age group etc for not complying. Within every group there are those who consider others and those who think the rules dont apply to them.
I dont think this government can catch up with their initial mistakes,partly because they are incompetent and also as each wild announcement is U turned on the public are becoming increasingly disengaged. I dont even think it matters if what they do is the right thing,too many people have lost trust and respect.
I hope Boris makes an announcement on shielding. He tends to do things in a reactive way when he has no choice,not because of any compassion or genuine concerns.
Not quite sure where the country will go in next few months. Total lockdown? Boris flinging his arms in the air and allowing a total free for all? Social unrest? I do feel the only person we can rely is ourselves, if support does come from the government it will probably be too little and to late,as it was with care homes.