Mask Exemptions in enclosed environments

[JohnEGreen]

Exempt or not a shop can refuse entry to those not wearing a mask if they so wish.

I am exempt but I still wear a mask if in a shop . It is no hardship for the short time I may spend in a shop.

Those who sneer at those who wear masks can simply go take a running jump.

 

[Brunneria]

@Fairygodmother
I am tempted to think that we are much less likely to see people with genuine exemption needs than you might think.
After all, their exemption needs are very likely to make them more vulnerable (asthma, breathing issues, etc) so I would expect them to be even more reluctant to go into enclosed spaces if they can avoid them. Obviously that doesn't cover all the exempt, but still a fair proportion of them.

I'm in an interesting position at the mo, since I am using a cute little mobility scooter on account of knee problems.
Me, a mask and a mobility scooter = ppl treating me with a generous social distancing personal space
Me, no mask and a mobility scooter = ppl looming over me and completely ignoring any social distancing
It is a marked contrast.

What is even more interesting is that my knee problems have absolutely zero impact on my Covid vulnerability - unless you count the high inflammation levels. Yet ppl seem to need visual signals (mask/scooter) in order suspect vulnerability. I could shake them, honestly. Vulnerability is not visual. Assuming that anyone is vulnerable based on age or fitness or whether they have a scooter is absurd. Yet over and over again I see ppl reacting to the visual cues. Which basically means they do not understand why they are being asked to socially distance and wear masks...

 

[Mr_Pot]

Yes, I know there is no compulsion - but that doesn't give them immunity from contracting it and passing it along.

Just so people understand where I'm coming from - so far I have had five friends die of this thing. That's five families that have lost a much loved parent/ sibling / spouse / child.

I am sorry to hear that, it's very sad.
It does however illustrate why there is a big variation in how serious the likelihood of infection is regarded. For example, in my own case I haven't heard of anyone, not even friends of friends, or anyone locally who has even had the virus, let alone died.

 

[KK123]

How do you feel about being in the same enclosed space, for instance a shop, with people who are not wearing masks because they’re exempt?
It seems to me that we have a clash of two needs: protection of those who may be very adversely affected if they catch COVID-19, and support for those who have certain conditions that make them exempt.

Good question. I think that those who are exempt because of a medical condition have no real choice so of course they cannot do much about it other than never go shopping just because they might come into contact with a higher risk person! Clearly that is a no no quite rightly so I think the onus is on those of us who may be adversely affected by a non mask wearer to look after ourselves as best we can, at least we can shop online or choose to keep well out of the way of other people and so on. As always, only WE can truly look after ourselves and take personal actions to keep ourselves safe. x

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

It seems to me that we have a clash of two needs: protection of those who may be very adversely affected if they catch COVID-19, and support for those who have certain conditions that make them exempt.

I'm probably repeating what others have said. I started wearing a mask in March. I have a friend in Singapore who has seen more epidemics and pandemics "than I've had hot dinners" to quote a well known phrase or saying. She said 'wear a mask', then I started to do the research and there's a lot, most saying 'wear a mask to decrease the risk'.

There are some who genuinely cannot wear a mask, but if necessary they might have to be ventilated. I think there are quite a few people who are just being stroppy because they don't want to do as they're told, some might be followers of David Icke, the well know conspiracy theorist.

I refused to go into my local butchers over the weekend because a man was not wearing a mask. He did apologise and put one on, it was in his pocket and I can understand forgetting, I nearly did the same thing today going to Tesco, where at least they have someone to remind you.

 

[Fairygodmother]

It’s an interesting social observation you make @Brunneria. Maybe we all need vulnerability badges, big ones.

 

[Chook]

I am sorry to hear that, it's very sad.
It does however illustrate why there is a big variation in how serious the likelihood of infection is regarded. For example, in my own case I haven't heard of anyone, not even friends of friends, or anyone locally who has even had the virus, let alone died.

They were part of a group of friends - ex work mates of my husband from years back - who have all remained good friends for many years. Others in the group and their families have had the virus but have thankfully survived.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I am sorry to hear that, it's very sad.
It does however illustrate why there is a big variation in how serious the likelihood of infection is regarded. For example, in my own case I haven't heard of anyone, not even friends of friends, or anyone locally who has even had the virus, let alone died.

Up to now, nor have I. However, last week on holiday we were chatting to a young man working on the next door cottage. He had 3 friends who went on a lads skiing holiday in Italy just before the virus reached our shores. All 3 of them got the virus. One had an annoying cough but nothing else, one was ill in bed at home but no hospitalisation required. The third was hospitalised and died. All 3 were fit young men in their early thirties. If only youngsters would stop regarding themselves as invincible things might improve.

As for exemption from masks. Perhaps they should be advised to wear visors instead of masks.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I have a friend who has a compromised larynx and says she gets attacks of breathlessness when she wears a mask in a shop, but apparently she’s ok if she’s outside a shop. I feel sorry for her as it seems to be a mental health issue, but I don’t feel sorry enough to be sympathetic to her ‘need’ not to wear a mask if she shops knowing that people who are vulnerable and/or have been shielding could also be shopping. I suppose this is partly what prompted me to ask you all how you felt about it. I’ve been feeling slightly unkind, since she’s a friend, and wondering if I’m being nasty when I emphasise that her actions could so adversely affect others. I know she has contact with quite a few people. The area she lives in has a relatively high rate of Covid.

I think it would be useful for a risk/benefit analysis of mask wearing in the community setting in this very hot weather would be very valid.
I did wear one, against my principles, because I took my daughter shopping yesterday and did not want to embarrass her and it was rather unpleasant without having a respiratory disorder.
If I think of elderly people queueing up outside a shop or bank unable to sit down because the benches are removed, it seems inhumane as well as pointless. I assume such people might be too terrified to sip some water lest someone gives them a harsh stare as has been encouraged by Cressida ****.
I would also point out that in such hot conditions we are also being told not to touch our masks or remove them in between shops but how many of the people you see are NOT doing so and therefore how much use do you really think those masks are in stopping the small amounts of a not very lethal virus that there are?
Masks were meant to reassure (a badge of confidence and compliance against the Virus\) but i guess from this thread that isn't really working so well is it because we either cannot or will not comply. In which case would we like on the spot fines a la France or visits from soldiers (Melbourne) once case numbers pick up for Winter and flu season?

 

[sleepster]

It does however illustrate why there is a big variation in how serious the likelihood of infection is regarded. For example, in my own case I haven't heard of anyone, not even friends of friends, or anyone locally who has even had the virus, let alone died.

I think that's exactly the problem isn't it, people don't know anyone who has had it, so don't feel the need to worry about it.

 

[NicoleC1971]

The irony is that those that are exempt from masks are just those who maybe adversely affected by Covid. I have asthma as well as type 2. I have invested in an FFP3 mask which has a degree of protection for me as well as protecting others from me. I saw a quote on Facebook which was designed to make people think whether they really can’t wear a mask, it went something like this “if you find breathing with a mask on difficult, you should try a ventilator!”
I fear some people are just making up excuses not to wear one just because it’s hot and sweaty. Like a lady I saw being stopped at a supermarket entrance who didn’t have a mask on. She reluctantly put it on then proceeded to rant at length at the security guard, that she couldn’t breathe with a mask on. She certainly was breathing during her rant!

I don't think I should have to wear a mask but would not dream of embarrassing a shop assistant or security guard if I was challenged about it. And I respect your right to wear a mask too. I am avoiding places where there is any enforcement.
i think that the fact that law does allow for so many exemptions including merely the fact that wearing a face covering provokes distress might give an indication that this law is not really about public health.
Anyway i think I have lost a few pounds just because I can't do random snack shopping thus should I pick up the Rona, I will be less vulnerable with better blood sugars.

 

[HSSS]

The law in England says face covering not mask. Any reason why a visor cannot be worn instead?

My mother has panic attacks with masks but wears a visor, to at least do what she can to help protect herself and others.

visors might not stop airbourne particles but do block projected ones in both directions in ways that masks don’t generally So are better than nothing, as well as being less hot and sweaty.

 

[HSSS]

This was an interesting take on people not wearing masks because it imposes on their freedom. Obviously it’s different if there is a genuine exemption but many people are falsely using the exemptions because they are wishy washy and easy to abuse when really their reasons are not exempt.

 

[Fairygodmother]

Yes I’ve seen that one too @HSSS, it does put ‘freedom’ into perspective.

 

[Andydragon]

What really hasn't helped is the government's constant changing of the rules plus the rule breaking. A clear consistent message will bring people on board and we certainly haven't had that

 

[Chook]

This was an interesting take on people not wearing masks because it imposes on their freedom. Obviously it’s different if there is a genuine exemption but many people are falsely using the exemptions because they are wishy washy and easy to abuse when really their reasons are not exempt.

Excellent - I'd not seen that before.

 

[Seacrow]

Some of the willingness to wear a mask comes from how we are treated when we don't wear a mask.(I have variable breathing problems, so sometimes I can wear one, sometimes I can't). There are two Tesco's local to me, one, when you go in you are asked 'excuse me, do you have a mask?'. In this one I stop, consider my breathing, and put my mask on if I can. In the other I get 'Stop you. You're not coming in without a mask.' I say I'm exempt, she says where's your proof, I say I'm not required to show proof... and so on. Is it understandable that I won't put a mask on for this shop?

 

[Member496333]

Some of the willingness to wear a mask comes from how we are treated when we don't wear a mask.(I have variable breathing problems, so sometimes I can wear one, sometimes I can't). There are two Tesco's local to me, one, when you go in you are asked 'excuse me, do you have a mask?'. In this one I stop, consider my breathing, and put my mask on if I can. In the other I get 'Stop you. You're not coming in without a mask.' I say I'm exempt, she says where's your proof, I say I'm not required to show proof... and so on. Is it understandable that I won't put a mask on for this shop?

There is no burden of proof and to demand such is an offence under the Equality Act 2010. Know the law.

 

[HSSS]

Some of the willingness to wear a mask comes from how we are treated when we don't wear a mask.(I have variable breathing problems, so sometimes I can wear one, sometimes I can't). There are two Tesco's local to me, one, when you go in you are asked 'excuse me, do you have a mask?'. In this one I stop, consider my breathing, and put my mask on if I can. In the other I get 'Stop you. You're not coming in without a mask.' I say I'm exempt, she says where's your proof, I say I'm not required to show proof... and so on. Is it understandable that I won't put a mask on for this shop?

It is understandable you are fed up with their lack of common decency in how they ask (and no you don’t need proof so they shouldn’t ask for it) but no I don’t agree. If you are able to wear the mask you are able to wear it. If you can’t you can’t. That’s not dependent on the rudeness or friendliness of the staff. It’s not just them you are wearing it for, it’s also for every other customer in the shop and the non rude staff.

Edit to say I wish more shops would ask, politely, for customers to wear a mask if they are able on entry, I believe some shops even offer masks as a way of doing this. A polite reminder is enough often to encourage or remind people. There are still those that forget or have no real reason to refuse that can be persuaded by even such a gentle challenge. Though I understand why staff might be afraid to as some refusers (no the real exempt) are so hostile it must be terrifying.

 

[Fairygodmother]

I tried to find out whether there were exemptions to mask wearing in other countries, especially the ones where masks were mandatory. I failed to find anything about anywhere giving exemptions except for the U.K.
it seems to me that there’s some fudging here. We’re told that we wear masks to protect others and that masks that protect the wearer must be reserved for those working in the NHS. At the same time, we’re told to be considerate towards those who can’t wear masks even though those wearing them have no protection from possibly virus-containing exhalations emitted by non mask wearers.
Does anyone know how other places have dealt with this?