Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[ert]

Hi, I have been off work since just before lockdown in March. I work for the local council in a nursery with children age 2-5 years. I have Type 1 diabetes and asthma. I was due back 11th June but my doctor said I was not to return to work till I had passed an Occupational Health Assessment. I had this with another doctor 2 weeks ago. He took all my details and said that due to my health conditions and the fact that there is no social distancing with the children in nursery or mask wearing I am not allowed back there for 3 months - to be reviewed in November. The local council is meant to be placing me somewhere else "safer" but realistically I don't know if this will happen...... I am totally gutted, I love my job & honestly thought I would be ok to go back. I am relieved though that someone else made the decision for me and yes better to be safe than sorry......

Hi @Scottishjellybaby How does one go about getting an Occupational Health Assessment? Is that something you asked your GP or Specialist? Is there a form they have already? Did you send in the RA routines for the nursery due to Covid?

 

[lucylocket61]

Agendas can be positive, humane, compassionate and all the other words we like to describe the positive. Agendas are not always harmful or negative.

I agree, I was simply stating my position.

 

[Max68]

Yes, everyone has an agenda, and that includes everyone contributing to this thread.

Professor Sikora will, of course, champion for those under his care, and for those who should be under his care - except that they may not have access to diagnostic tests, or worse still, access to treatment for a know cancerous growth.

Fair point I agree with you, it's certainly a difficult balancing act. Not sure where I read it but I saw an interview with a guy who had cancer and was missing out on his treatment. He said that it was a difficult situation because he was so immunosuppressed that if he went to hospital for his treatment and caught Covid it would probably be the end for him so it was decided with his physician to wait. Just an interview I caught which shows the difficulty.

Maybe I've got Sikora wrong. It's just that I've seen him in quite a few interviews and he just came across as very dismissive of Covid to the point of a conspiracy theory that it just didn't really exist. Just my opinion, as I say maybe I've got him wrong.

Your right I do have an agenda myself. I just don't want to potentially end up in a hospital ward due to the gung ho incompetence of the government. I haven't got a problem with schools opening, I just have an issue with clinically vulnerable children and staff being forced back into the classroom with no other options on the table.

 

[lucylocket61]

Maybe we should have the kids back in school , but not the teachers?

That wouldn't stop the children infecting others they come into contact with, including vulnerable adults and other vulnerable children. Many vulnerable children attend schools.

 

[Max68]

That wouldn't stop the children infecting others they come into contact with, including vulnerable adults and other vulnerable children. Many vulnerable children attend schools.

Read a report earlier about infections within schools and the government basically said it was more than likely caused by staff to staff, or staff to pupil and that staff should be more careful about what they do in their own time to protect the education setting. So in a nutshell the government is covering it's own back, getting their punch in early by blaming staff for bringing the infection into schools. A real despicable bunch this lot.

 

[DCUKMod]

Fair point I agree with you, it's certainly a difficult balancing act. Not sure where I read it but I saw an interview with a guy who had cancer and was missing out on his treatment. He said that it was a difficult situation because he was so immunosuppressed that if he went to hospital for his treatment and caught Covid it would probably be the end for him so it was decided with his physician to wait. Just an interview I caught which shows the difficulty.

Maybe I've got Sikora wrong. It's just that I've seen him in quite a few interviews and he just came across as very dismissive of Covid to the point of a conspiracy theory that it just didn't really exist. Just my opinion, as I say maybe I've got him wrong.

Your right I do have an agenda myself. I just don't want to potentially end up in a hospital ward due to the gung ho incompetence of the government. I haven't got a problem with schools opening, I just have an issue with clinically vulnerable children and staff being forced back into the classroom with no other options on the table.

Well, as someone who had someone close diagnosed with acute leukaemia just as COVID was getting a grip, who needed a stem cell transplant t have a chance, you can see how there could e some sensitivity on my part around this.

After some fairly rudimentary chemotherapy, she lost her life, a few weeks ago, having been unable to have the usual options available to her.

There can be no doubting that COVID is and enormous and very important challenge in these times, but many thousands are being prevented from having adequate medical advice or treatments, never mind the usual rounds of screening programmes simply shelved, for now.

I hope your return to school goes well and we can all look back on these times to know "we" got there in the end.

 

[lucylocket61]

Well, as someone who had someone close diagnosed with acute leukaemia just as COVID was getting a grip, who needed a stem cell transplant t have a chance, you can see how there could e some sensitivity on my part around this.

After some fairly rudimentary chemotherapy, she lost her life, a few weeks ago, having been unable to have the usual options available to her.

There can be no doubting that COVID is and enormous and very important challenge in these times, but many thousands are being prevented from having adequate medical advice or treatments, never mind the usual rounds of screening programmes simply shelved, for now.

I hope your return to school goes well and we can all look back on these times to know "we" got there in the end.

I am sorry for your loss. A friend of mine has had her cancer go to inoperable due to the delays.

However, the government keep insisting that usual NHS business has always been continuing, despite the experiences of many. In my opinion, it should not have been either/or. Those who needed non-covid care should have it. This care should not have stopped.

Lack of obvious control of infection will only make the situation of non-covid medical care worse.

I am concerned about both schools and the wider health implications.

 

[Max68]

Well, as someone who had someone close diagnosed with acute leukaemia just as COVID was getting a grip, who needed a stem cell transplant t have a chance, you can see how there could e some sensitivity on my part around this.

After some fairly rudimentary chemotherapy, she lost her life, a few weeks ago, having been unable to have the usual options available to her.

There can be no doubting that COVID is and enormous and very important challenge in these times, but many thousands are being prevented from having adequate medical advice or treatments, never mind the usual rounds of screening programmes simply shelved, for now.

I hope your return to school goes well and we can all look back on these times to know "we" got there in the end.

I'm so sorry to hear that, that's just awful, awful. Totally understand what you say and you are absolutely right. I guess we all get a bit blinkered from time to time with our own worries and concerns when there certainly hundreds of thousands of people being affected in other ways and in the way you describe. I apologise if I came across in the wrong way.

 

[DCUKMod]

I'm so sorry to hear that, that's just awful, awful. Totally understand what you say and you are absolutely right. I guess we all get a bit blinkered from time to time with our own worries and concerns when there certainly hundreds of thousands of people being affected in other ways and in the way you describe. I apologise if I came across in the wrong way.

Don't worry about it. Lots of folks have a lot going on a the moment.

We've been very fortunate that neither us nor ours have had a skirmish with COVID, but other spanners have been in the works, for sure. We're certainly not alone in that regard.

I'm sure many will be happy to see the back of 2020.

 

[Fairygodmother]

That’s so hard @DCUK Mod. Hug!

 

[Fairygodmother]

I think this pandemic’s revealing many things to us, from our personal ideas of what’s important in life to the ways that we humans organise our societies and our connections with others. We’re in the midst of it right now, but I do sometimes wonder how we’ll look back on it.

 

[Fairygodmother]

Our older daughter’s coming for a distanced lunch with us on Thursday, then going to the dentist and having her hair cut. She returns to teaching, secondary, soon and we want to see as much of her as possible before she does. I think she wants to get her hair cut and teeth sorted before the uncertainties of schools opening again. It’ll be a different situation from when she was teaching key workers’ children.
We’re lucky that she, and we, live in an area where the numbers of Covid infections are apparently low, but I usually bet on the black as I’d rather a pleasant surprise than an unpleasant one.
Our younger daughter’s uni has provided masks for all staff but the task of allocating rooms and group sizes for necessary teaching is a real headache. What’s worst is the constant adaptations to accommodate recent changes in numbers. She’s distracting herself from it by undertaking lots of projects with our grandsons.
I wish there was some trustworthy information available, but I doubt there will be until there’s a decent system of testing, tracing, recording and communicating in place. And some logical guidelines.
It’s so hard when working people are caught between the rock of central imperatives and the hard place of economic and physical survival.

 

[MrsA2]

I am sorry for your loss. A friend of mine has had her cancer go to inoperable due to the delays.

However, the government keep insisting that usual NHS business has always been continuing, despite the experiences of many. In my opinion, it should not have been either/or. Those who needed non-covid care should have it. This care should not have stopped.
s.

I hope they tell that to my 85 year old who's hip replacement was cancelled in March with no date yet. She cannot walk or sit or lie without great pain. She doesn't need to be told to stay in as she cannot physically leave

 

[There is no Spoon]

The point is there is next to zero risk of illness and death from this virus as the figures you quoted show

Figures are a funny thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the data collected is during the lock down period? How can that be used to measure rates of infections in classrooms.

 

[lucylocket61]

I don't trust the government's death rate figures. They have plummeted since they changed the cut-off point to 28 days from a positive test. Most reports indicate that it takes longer than 28 days from the first symptoms to death. All of those are no longer included in the death figures in England. The original way of counting wasn't good either.

It's the dishonest manipulation of data, like this, which gets to me. How can people make informed decisions if the data parameters are not honest.

Just count the way Wales, Scotland and North Ireland do - it works well.

 

[bulkbiker]

Just count the way Wales, Scotland and North Ireland do - it works well.

So far as I am aware that is exactly what England has done.. brought death reporting into line with the others you cite...?

 

[Andydragon]

I don't trust the government's death rate figures. They have plummeted since they changed the cut-off point to 28 days from a positive test. Most reports indicate that it takes longer than 28 days from the first symptoms to death. All of those are no longer included in the death figures in England. The original way of counting wasn't good either.

It's the dishonest manipulation of data, like this, which gets to me. How can people make informed decisions if the data parameters are not honest.

Just count the way Wales, Scotland and North Ireland do - it works well.

The counter argument is that people were being reported of dying from COVID who actually died of other issues but just happened to test positive.

Where there are incredibly ill people with other conditions, you cannot always prove it was the cause or even a contributory factor. It’s not that simple

so arguably the figures they were previously presenting were manipulated to show that it was more severe

statistics easily bent to sell a narrative

 

[Max68]

Just an update with regard to another chat with my Union Rep this morning.

As Dr John Campbell would say in his videos - The bottom line is I am going to have to risk it at work. If you want to keep watching the video you can - or in this case continue reading the rest of the post!!!

All Unions are going by this. The government has set out guidelines, and whether you agree with them or not, that's the way it is basically, and all workplaces including schools, go by these guidelines.

The guidelines are that all staff can return to the workplace if it is Covid Secure/Safe, whatever word you want to use. Again some of us will argue that no place can be made Covid safe, but again that's the way it is.

I can ask for an Individual Risk Assessment but as long as the school has done what the Government guidelines say then that's good enough.

If I feel that those guidelines will not protect me enough then it is entirely up to me if I stay or leave but a voluntary handing in of notice declaring I don't feel safe will more than likely not cut it with the decision makers at the DWP so you would be likely sanctioned re Universal Credit and therefore worst case scenario not be able to claim for six months I think.

Even if you were to be able to claim you have to be actively looking for work to receive benefits and therefore you would have to apply for any old job which may have less safety procedures in place than the place you have just left, if indeed you can get another job,. Out of the frying pan into the fire is probably the best description here!

Then a further whammy down the road will be that even if you were to survive, until say a vaccine is in place, you still have to go and find another job, and resignations do not look particularly good on applications!

Sick pay is a pittance, even if you were to qualify for it, and that would require being signed off by a GP who themselves are going by Government guidelines. Even if you managed to get signed off long term with stress for instance, again that doesn't look good on future applications.

Soooo, my options are to stick with it and risk it, or quit and gamble with any UC claim being read by a sympathetic DWP assessor!

What choice!!

 

[JRT]

Just an update with regard to another chat with my Union Rep this morning.

As Dr John Campbell would say in his videos - The bottom line is I am going to have to risk it at work. If you want to keep watching the video you can - or in this case continue reading the rest of the post!!!

All Unions are going by this. The government has set out guidelines, and whether you agree with them or not, that's the way it is basically, and all workplaces including schools, go by these guidelines.

The guidelines are that all staff can return to the workplace if it is Covid Secure/Safe, whatever word you want to use. Again some of us will argue that no place can be made Covid safe, but again that's the way it is.

I can ask for an Individual Risk Assessment but as long as the school has done what the Government guidelines say then that's good enough.

If I feel that those guidelines will not protect me enough then it is entirely up to me if I stay or leave but a voluntary handing in of notice declaring I don't feel safe will more than likely not cut it with the decision makers at the DWP so you would be likely sanctioned re Universal Credit and therefore worst case scenario not be able to claim for six months I think.

Even if you were to be able to claim you have to be actively looking for work to receive benefits and therefore you would have to apply for any old job which may have less safety procedures in place than the place you have just left, if indeed you can get another job,. Out of the frying pan into the fire is probably the best description here!

Then a further whammy down the road will be that even if you were to survive, until say a vaccine is in place, you still have to go and find another job, and resignations do not look particularly good on applications!

Sick pay is a pittance, even if you were to qualify for it, and that would require being signed off by a GP who themselves are going by Government guidelines. Even if you managed to get signed off long term with stress for instance, again that doesn't look good on future applications.

Soooo, my options are to stick with it and risk it, or quit and gamble with any UC claim being read by a sympathetic DWP assessor!

What choice!!

So sorry you are facing such a dilemma. I have seen a few topical programmes today and naturally the talk is of the safety of schools opening. Of course schools need to be open,and I do hope they are right about it being safe for childeren.
What was interesting was that when people have raised concerns about vulnerable adults being infected be it teachers,relatives etc those raising concerns are rapidly dismissed.
There has been a case in uk where staff and pupils were infected. It was a special school.
I think for the majority of the population as long as they are sensible they are fine.
The amount of vulnerable workers in any workforce probably isnt large. You would think it wouldnt take much effort to give those workers a choice or support. Government simply are not interested. Neither it appears are the public in general,especially if they dont know anyone in a vulnerable group.
None of it is rational. There are no answers.Good luck.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Just count the way Wales, Scotland and North Ireland do - it works well.

This is exactly why the English government changed it to the 28 day rule - to match what the rest of the UK are doing. Now we are all the same.