Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[Mr_Pot]

Rather than children all moving around the corridors why don't they stay in their classroom and the teachers move?

 

[Max68]

Rather than children all moving around the corridors why don't they stay in their classroom and the teachers move?

Good idea in theory but guess it depends on the school. As an LSA I'm down as subject specific this year so will always be in science or PE. You can obviously only teach those subjects correctly in either science lab or gym. Same as woodwork, food tech etc so the students need to move classroom if they do certain subjects. Will be interesting to see if staff are expected to clean the classroom between classes.

 

[Max68]

And Bingo!!!! Masks in school.

This government has more changes of direction than spaghetti junction.

I suppose this U-turn had nothing to do with the school heads taking matters into their own hands.

Is it any wonder no one has any confidence in the government? Declare schools as safe without masks and once again they do a reactive u turn. Can't believe a word that they say!

 

[Max68]

Note that it is being pushed out to head teachers in areas where there isn't an allegedly high case load.
If you disagree with the idea of making secondary kids wear masks this is a good time to write to your headteacher. See template on the UsforThem facebook page.
Also interesting study from Spectator (Uni of Warwick) which points out that mask wearing encourages the wearer to stand closer due to 'classic risk compensation' .
Hopefully all those kids are boilwashing their fabric masks over the course of school day... but i doubt it so this isn't going to reassure the nervous peeps out there IMO.

If students wearing masks protects others then isn't it a good thing?

 

[HSSS]

Rather than children all moving around the corridors why don't they stay in their classroom and the teachers move?

Because in secondary schools the pupils study different electives/subjects and in some subjects are in ability sets too even for subjects they all do. This is why they are exposed to somewhere in the region of 150 people a day and it varies day by day which ones. Nothing like an average office.

 

[Max68]

Because in secondary schools the pupils study different electives/subjects and in some subjects are in ability sets too even for subjects they all do. This is why they are exposed to somewhere in the region of 150 people a day and it varies day by day which ones. Nothing like an average office.

Interesting you mentioning an office. It's incredible to think that offices are very much embracing technology and some companies are actively encouraging some of their employees to work from home long term. Even at my hearing appointment today I was told about an app where you can Bluetooth your hearing aid and adjust it yourself by using the app. If that's too hard to do then they can actually use the app too locate your aid and update it whilst you are at home and they are in the office. Cuts down dramatically face to face appointments.

Yet the insistence that everyone at school attends the classroom is baffling. There will be so many anxious students and staff (me included obviously) that I am sure that if home learning for some was accepted and with good reason it would certainly make sense. In my school there are three vulnerable support staff I know of and at least two teachers. We generally have a younger teaching staff than many secondary schools but staff as was done a few months ago could easily be placed on a day at home rota or even use Zoom within the classroom itself and have home based staff supporting Zoom.

Doesn't make sense that every other business etc is looking forward safety and technology wise and yet some people generally seem to want schools to go back to the way they were.

 

[NicoleC1971]

If students wearing masks protects others then isn't it a good thing?

I think it is detrimental to teaching and raises anxiety for something which we should not be very anxious about given a) low rate of spread in schools open in Europe b) low risk to both kids and working age adults. (note that South Korean schools are closed because of outbreaks in churches and a rally) ./ It feels like the thin end of the wedge when it comes to other measures such as mass mandatory testing and compulsory vaccinations; I am not an anti vaxxer not a conspiracy theorist but feel that this has become a panic pandemic.
e.g.
I am a 49 year old type 1 and have calculated my risk of dying to be 0.3-2%* whereas my father in law by virtue of being type 2 and over 80 goes up to 9.6%+. Even my obese and type 2 diabetic dad is 3-5% just because he is a decade younger than the father in law.
* based on the estimates for population fatality 0.1-0.75% and the known risk multipliers for diabetes, age, obesity etc.

 

[Dusty911]

I'm glad the English government have seen sense and are allowing people to wear.masks in school and recommending students do so in communal areas . What I don't understand is how every protective measure has to be dragged out of them. Not once have they been pro actively leading in this area .
People should be encouraged to take the protective measures they can and if you're more vunerable than others my advice would be to take those measures very seriously in the work place especially.

 

[Max68]

I think it is detrimental to teaching and raises anxiety for something which we should not be very anxious about given a) low rate of spread in schools open in Europe b) low risk to both kids and working age adults. (note that South Korean schools are closed because of outbreaks in churches and a rally) ./ It feels like the thin end of the wedge when it comes to other measures such as mass mandatory testing and compulsory vaccinations; I am not an anti vaxxer not a conspiracy theorist but feel that this has become a panic pandemic.
e.g.
I am a 49 year old type 1 and have calculated my risk of dying to be 0.3-2%* whereas my father in law by virtue of being type 2 and over 80 goes up to 9.6%+. Even my obese and type 2 diabetic dad is 3-5% just because he is a decade younger than the father in law.
* based on the estimates for population fatality 0.1-0.75% and the known risk multipliers for diabetes, age, obesity etc.

Nicole. Firstly this post isn't intended to create an argument, merely good debate because obviously we all have different opinions. Just clarifying that before we start!!

As no-one can be 100% sure lets take a general starting position that a majority of children don't get ill with Covid but do have the capability to spread the infection.

Your reply to me earlier quoted "Anyway there are loads of parents out there who will be grateful that teachers like you are going back in spite of your fears." which I appreciate.

In your next post however you mentioned the "UsforThem facebook page" which seems to be pushing for all protective measures in schools to be abandoned and for school children to go about their day as per normal.. No social distancing, no bubbles and almost certainly now, no masks.

Now obviously with this pandemic everyone is having to make sacrifices to try and keep others safe so why shouldn't school children do their bit in an effort to keep school staff safe? After all if staff are trying to do their best by their students in spite of their fears then do they not deserve some protection from the virus also?

 

[Tannith]

Because in secondary schools the pupils study different electives/subjects and in some subjects are in ability sets too even for subjects they all do. This is why they are exposed to somewhere in the region of 150 people a day and it varies day by day which ones. Nothing like an average office.

https://www.massgeneral.org/news/pr...ilent-spreaders-of-virus-that-causes-covid-19 https://-
(MGHfC) researchers provide critical data showing that children may play a larger role in the community spread of COVID-19 than previously thought. In a study of 192 children ages 0-22, 49 children tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, and an additional 18 children had late-onset, COVID-19-related illness. The infected children were shown to have a significantly higher level of virus in their airways than hospitalized adults in ICUs for COVID-19 treatment.

“I was surprised by the high levels of virus we found in children of all ages, especially in the first two days of infection,” says Lael Yonker, MD, director of the MGH Cystic Fibrosis Center and lea
"Data from the group show that although younger children have lower numbers of the virus receptor than older children and adults, this does not correlate with a decreased viral load. According to the authors, this finding suggests that children can carry a high viral load, meaning they are more contagious, regardless of their susceptibility to developing COVID-19 infection"

 

[lucylocket61]

I find it interesting that those who are against masks appear to be only focused on the health of the children, and ignore the risk posed to those they come into contact with.

They also take the view that if it doesn't kill the children, it's not a problem.

I wonder what their views are on children who have been in contact chickenpox or norovirus, or similar, coming into school?

I also wonder how many deaths or covid-19 long term illnesses are an acceptable number to them through not masking.

 

[bulkbiker]

I also wonder how many deaths or covid-19 long term illnesses are an acceptable number to them through not masking.

You are making the huge assumption of course that "masks" or "face coverings" have a significant impact on reducing the transmission of a virus.

If you actually read the studies that allegedly support this viewpoint then you find none of them in fact say that they do. Most in fact seem to point to the opposite view.

This alone is rather odd don't you think?

 

[Tannith]

I find it interesting that those who are against masks appear to be only focused on the health of the children, and ignore the risk posed to those they come into contact with.

They also take the view that if it doesn't kill the children, it's not a problem.

I wonder what their views are on children who have been in contact chickenpox or norovirus, or similar, coming into school?

I also wonder how many deaths or covid-19 long term illnesses are an acceptable number to them through not masking.

"They also take the view that if it doesn't kill the children, it's not a problem."
If I were teaching now, wild horses wouldn't drag me back into the classroom. I retired at 70 (from a different job) and used to travel on the bus with a bunch of teenage schoolchildren The noise was dreadful - they could only communicate by bellowing at the tops of their voices. And these were relatively civilised children whose parents had to pay the fares in order to send them to a good school over their county border.Nobody seems to care about the teachers or others like parents, bus drivers and the like that they might infect. Unfortunately for the hapless teachers there is now mass unemployment and it is hard for them to find a safe job. Today the news said around half of offices are continuing to allow workers to WFH because they can't provide 2 metre social distancing measures. 2 metres or anything like it would be impossible in a school. i hope uk teachers follow the example of those in Arizona who all called in sick en masse! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...classes-after-teachers-call-out-sick-n1236931

 

[KK123]

I find it interesting that those who are against masks appear to be only focused on the health of the children, and ignore the risk posed to those they come into contact with.

They also take the view that if it doesn't kill the children, it's not a problem.

I wonder what their views are on children who have been in contact chickenpox or norovirus, or similar, coming into school?

I also wonder how many deaths or covid-19 long term illnesses are an acceptable number to them through not masking.

Not to mention the numerous NHS workers it killed, most of them seemed to be in their 50s, WELL within working age. I'm sick of hearing about it only being a risk to those over 70, erm, no!

 

[Member496333]

i hope uk teachers follow the example of those in Arizona who all called in sick en masse!

What will that achieve?

 

[Tannith]

What will that achieve?

It might get the employer to look at ways of making schools safer eg by providing premises that permit 2m social distancing. Normal classrooms don't. Some countries have been requisitioning conference halls, public buildings etc to provide temporary classrooms and more space to separate the children from each other and the teachers. And so far I haven't seen any examples in schools of the perspex or even polythene screens that are used in many offices to separate people from each other. Why not a perspex box for the teacher to stand in? The kids may be in "bubbles" but the teachers in secondary schools at least, have to go from one bubble to another all day. to teach different sets of kids.

 

[Max68]

Interesting comment I saw earlier on a news site and I think this says it all really -

"Face masks send out a message that there's danger, therefore by logic it's not safe for schools to open, despite the fact that the government insisted that they were safe only 48 hours ago. The teachers that don't want to work now have a point.

"You can't have it both ways Boris, it's either one or the other."

 

[Max68]

Received a really nice positive email from my Line Manager after I wrote to her about my concerns. Will be taking up the offer of a visit when no-one is there. Think in many ways I am fortunate to have such an employer. Many sadly won't be so fortunate. Makes my decision on which shield to use mind you as I'll just use the ones there!!

Hi ***

Thank you for your email. I'm sorry things haven't improved for you over the summer. An individual risk assessment is not a problem at all and ***** is speaking to HR tomorrow and we will get back to you with that.
We have ordered through the school more PPE - including shields and face masks so please feel free to use whatever is necessary for you to feel safer.
I wonder if it might be worth you driving over and meeting me at school whilst there is no-one in - it will give you a chance to see for yourself without getting too overwhelmed with other bodies about - what do you think? I could explain what it might look like in September and it might help you make better sense of it all.
Please try not to worry about it too much, I understand the anxieties coming back is raising, but rest assured that as always staff and pupil safety is our top priority.
Let me know if you think coming in might be an option and I can arrange that.
Take care

Also received some guidance from my Union. Not an awful lot of use but it's the up to date guidelines in play so it may be of help to someone. It's attached.

 

[ert]

My senior school RA's focuses solely on hand washing. We have 800 students, 150 teachers and 200 support staff, not social distancing or wearing masks. They have stated parents can't talk to each at the gates. Also, there will be different entrances for the year groups. After they've entered the school, other than washing their hands, it's a free-for-all. They have insisted all staff sign compliance with the RA. No guessing I'm not. I've been signed off by my OCDEM specialist as I have type 1 and autoimmune t-cell issues. This week my HR and DP said they were refusing to accept medical advice and I need to be back in the classroom. Of course, I need to follow medical advice. I sought legal advice:
Phone conversation notes with Landau Law Solicitors 25.8.20 5 pm.
Advice given:
If you have underlying health conditions which pose a particular risk then staying at home is more likely to be justified. Indeed, if you have an existing disability such as type 1 diabetes, then not allowing you to work from home could amount to a failure to make reasonable adjustment, and therefore discriminatory.
You could argue that it would be a breach of your employment contract (more specifically a breach of the mutual duty of trust and confidence) to force you to come to work.
As you have a recognised disability, type 1 diabetes, your employer would specifically be required under the Equality Act to consider what ‘reasonable adjustments” can be made. Ignoring medical advice, by asking you to return to the classroom, would be discrimination.
If an employee has been advised to self-isolate by doctors, but they insist on coming into work anyway, then your employer may breach its health and safety obligations if they do not take steps to enforce your self-isolation.
https://www.landaulaw.co.uk/coronavirus-and-going-back-to-work/
My GP wrote a more forceful letter today. They have no chance, but it makes me cross that I've had to go through this. I'm ok, but my vulnerable colleagues haven't been so resourceful.

 

[Mr_Pot]

My senior school RA's focuses solely on hand washing. We have 800 students, 150 teachers and 200 support staff, not social distancing or wearing masks. They have stated parents can't talk to each at the gates. Also, there will be different entrances for the year groups. After they've entered the school, other than washing their hands, it's a free-for-all. They have insisted all staff sign compliance with the RA. No guessing I'm not. I've been signed off by my OCDEM specialist as I have type 1 and autoimmune t-cell issues. This week my HR and DP said they were refusing to accept medical advice and I need to be back in the classroom. Of course, I need to follow medical advice. I sought legal advice:
Phone conversation notes with Landau Law Solicitors 25.8.20 5 pm.
Advice given:
If you have underlying health conditions which pose a particular risk then staying at home is more likely to be justified. Indeed, if you have an existing disability such as type 1 diabetes, then not allowing you to work from home could amount to a failure to make reasonable adjustment, and therefore discriminatory.
You could argue that it would be a breach of your employment contract (more specifically a breach of the mutual duty of trust and confidence) to force you to come to work.
As you have a recognised disability, type 1 diabetes, your employer would specifically be required under the Equality Act to consider what ‘reasonable adjustments” can be made. Ignoring medical advice, by asking you to return to the classroom, would be discrimination.
If an employee has been advised to self-isolate by doctors, but they insist on coming into work anyway, then your employer may breach its health and safety obligations if they do not take steps to enforce your self-isolation.

My GP wrote a more forceful letter today. They have no chance, but it makes me cross that I've had to go through this. I'm ok, but my vulnerable colleagues haven't been so resourceful.

You have just over 2 students to each member of staff? That must be an expensive school.