Zero Calories 5day 100miles experiment

[ianf0ster]

James Cracknell, Steve Bennett and 6 others completed their Zero Calories 5day 100miles experiment yesterday.
They water fasted (with electrolytes) for 5 days during which they ran 100 miles and measured their bloods.
They had so much energy that the actually ran 90 miles in the first 4 days.

All done on natural stored body fat - not that these guys were obese or even overweight!
Who can now say that you need to eat carbohydrates for energy (or even at all) ?

https://twitter.com/thehealthdaddy/status/1309067943414824960

Teaser video just released:

 

[NicoleC1971]

James Cracknell, Steve Bennett and 6 others completed their Zero Calories 5day 100miles experiment yesterday.
They water fasted (with electrolytes) for 5 days during which they ran 100 miles and measured their bloods.
They had so much energy that the actually ran 90 miles in the first 4 days.

All done on natural stored body fat - not that these guys were obese or even overweight!
Who can now say that you need to eat carbohydrates for energy (or even at all) ?

https://twitter.com/thehealthdaddy/status/1309067943414824960

Teaser video just released:

Assuming they didn't just switch their engines to fat burning but did some kind of keto /fasted training prep.
It is astounding and I hope they are enjoying their re feeding!

 

[DCUKMod]

A little more information is emerging now, but more data to follow.

https://primalliving.com/blogs/news/zero-calories-5-days-100-miles-challenge-steve-bennett

 

[Mbaker]

If you have not watched Steve's Fat and Furious podcasts on YouTube you might want to take a look, legend.

 

[ianf0ster]

Here is more on the results from Ian Lake: https://zerofive100.com/

 

[ianf0ster]

It is very interesting that when I posted the same basic thread in 'the other UK Diabetes forum' their was some posting by critics - those who felt the challenge was a dangerous stunt. One posted an article on it by the Daily Mail in which they got an Obesity specialist to label it as dangerous , crazy etc. without even having the collated medical data available yet.
Then some T1D's also claimed that even a controlled supervised fasting was dangerous for the two T1D's taking part- even though Dr Ian Lake is both a T1D and an MD - so is surely an expert on his own diabetes.

The T1D's posting in there claim that nutritional ketosis is basically dangerous since it may lead to DKA.
I was puzzled by this until one explained that DKA is cause by lack of Insulin rather than sky high Blood Glucose. - Is this actually true? As a T2D I had assumed that the lack of Insulin was only a problem because of the sky high BG. They take the view that when fasting taking enough Insulin to cover the gluconeogenesis is not sufficient and so is dangerous i.e. That T1D's must eat sufficient of either protein or carbs daily in order to be able to inject enough Insulin to stave off DKA !

 

[nickm]

Despite being a non athlete at school I recently ran my first 10km road race at the age of 60 in 42 mins 10s. From reports on Twitter it appears that both of the T1Ds walked some of the way. They did provide valuable evidence of the safety of their enterprise and I congratulate them all for that. But their pace was way slower than what many older T1Ds would do with carbs.

 

[DCUKMod]

Despite being a non athlete at school I recently ran my first 10km road race at the age of 60 in 42 mins 10s. From reports on Twitter it appears that both of the T1Ds walked some of the way. They did provide valuable evidence of the safety of their enterprise and I congratulate them all for that. But their pace was way slower than what many older T1Ds would do with carbs.

Hi Nick, if you want to learn more about Ian Lake and his take on diabetes and endurance exercise, he is out there in t'interweb. This site did a piece with him, when he completes his 750 mile run a couple of years ago:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/08/gp-type-1-diabetes-runs-low-carb/

 

[Oldvatr]

Despite being a non athlete at school I recently ran my first 10km road race at the age of 60 in 42 mins 10s. From reports on Twitter it appears that both of the T1Ds walked some of the way. They did provide valuable evidence of the safety of their enterprise and I congratulate them all for that. But their pace was way slower than what many older T1Ds would do with carbs.

There is a bit of a difference between 100 miles in 5 days and 10 km in one day. I am not surprised they walked part of the way.

 

[Oldvatr]

Another reason why walking might be preferred, and that is lactic acid in the blood. Aerobic exercise like walking does not produce lactic acid, but anaerobic exercise or exertion does. Normally this excess due to exercise is not a problem since the liver and heart act to re-use it for energy instead, by converting it back to pyruvate or glucose, But in this experiment, extra glucose is not necessarily a wanted outcome since it stops ketosis. The other problem they would be trying to avoid is muscle scavenging, and running might exacerbate this.

 

[KK123]

It is very interesting that when I posted the same basic thread in 'the other UK Diabetes forum' their was some posting by critics - those who felt the challenge was a dangerous stunt. One posted an article on it by the Daily Mail in which they got an Obesity specialist to label it as dangerous , crazy etc. without even having the collated medical data available yet.
Then some T1D's also claimed that even a controlled supervised fasting was dangerous for the two T1D's taking part- even though Dr Ian Lake is both a T1D and an MD - so is surely an expert on his own diabetes.

The T1D's posting in there claim that nutritional ketosis is basically dangerous since it may lead to DKA.
I was puzzled by this until one explained that DKA is cause by lack of Insulin rather than sky high Blood Glucose. - Is this actually true? As a T2D I had assumed that the lack of Insulin was only a problem because of the sky high BG. They take the view that when fasting taking enough Insulin to cover the gluconeogenesis is not sufficient and so is dangerous i.e. That T1D's must eat sufficient of either protein or carbs daily in order to be able to inject enough Insulin to stave off DKA !

Hi Ian, I don't think there is an issue with type 1s being in nutritional ketosis as such but if for some reason your glucose levels go very high (maybe due to an illness or something going on with a lack of background insulin etc), THEN it can become dangerous very quickly as the two together (no insulin & high levels) can lead to acidity and DKA bearing in mind if you're in keto then you are already sitting there with the ketones.. That's how my Consultant put it. Also (as with type 2s and different ways of approaching things), ANY individual can choose a way of life and my view is that as long as they know the danger/potential for harm and so on then there is no right or wrong. As usual eh, you will find people defending THEIR approach as if it was the only one. My motto is simply to be informed before deciding. That DR you mention clearly IS an expert on his own diabetes but the problem arises when what he does is put out to the general diabetic public who may not have all the background information or know their own bodies as well as the Dr knows his. x

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi Ian, I don't think there is an issue with type 1s being in nutritional ketosis as such but if for some reason your glucose levels go very high (maybe due to an illness or something going on with a lack of background insulin etc), THEN it can become dangerous very quickly as the two together (no insulin & high levels) can lead to acidity and DKA bearing in mind if you're in keto then you are already sitting there with the ketones.. That's how my Consultant put it. Also (as with type 2s and different ways of approaching things), ANY individual can choose a way of life and my view is that as long as they know the danger/potential for harm and so on then there is no right or wrong. As usual eh, you will find people defending THEIR approach as if it was the only one. My motto is simply to be informed before deciding. That DR you mention clearly IS an expert on his own diabetes but the problem arises when what he does is put out to the general diabetic public who may not have all the background information or know their own bodies as well as the Dr knows his. x

This was a serious experiment to determine if carbs are really required for energy or not. I think most in here already know the answer but the idea was to really prove they are not needed. Even those who took part have no intention of repeating it, much less advising others to do so.
So why does the medical establishment, the mainstream press and a bunch of T1D's over on the 'blue' forum have it in for them?
- It seems to me that they afraid of the result!

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi Ian, I don't think there is an issue with type 1s being in nutritional ketosis as such but if for some reason your glucose levels go very high (maybe due to an illness or something going on with a lack of background insulin etc), THEN it can become dangerous very quickly as the two together (no insulin & high levels) can lead to acidity and DKA bearing in mind if you're in keto then you are already sitting there with the ketones.. That's how my Consultant put it. ..........

I don't understand why you need point out the obvious. They were all being constantly monitored with CGMs. They had a support team with them and they were not risking their lives or health as was shown by Dr Ian Lake taking a glucose tablet when a Hypo was looming, so strictly in his case it wasn't quite zero Calories.
Also why do you say they had no Insulin? - That isn't true, they had Insulin which they were taking - just not in the higher quantities that would have been needed if they were not fasting.

Is their any actual evidence that sufficient Insulin to manage ya T1D's blood glucose is not enough to prevent DKA when the BG levels are in the 4 to 8 range? That's what the situation was during the experiment.
Yet those 'blue forum T1D's leapt in to say that any Ketones even with a BG of say 8.0 is dangerously close to DKA and that they didn't have sufficient circulating Insulin because they hadn't eaten (enough) carbs to be able to inject enough without going Hypo!

 

[KK123]

I don't understand why you need point out the obvious. They were all being constantly monitored with CGMs. They had a support team with them and they were not risking their lives or health as was shown by Dr Ian Lake taking a glucose tablet when a Hypo was looming, so strictly in his case it wasn't quite zero Calories.
Also why do you say they had no Insulin? - That isn't true, they had Insulin which they were taking - just not in the higher quantities that would have been needed if they were not fasting.

Is their any actual evidence that sufficient Insulin to manage ya T1D's blood glucose is not enough to prevent DKA when the BG levels are in the 4 to 8 range? That's what the situation was during the experiment.
Yet those 'blue forum T1D's leapt in to say that any Ketones even with a BG of say 8.0 is dangerously close to DKA and that they didn't have sufficient circulating Insulin because they hadn't eaten (enough) carbs to be able to inject enough without going Hypo!

What are you talking about? I replied to your post in an effort to help give an explanation as to why DKA occurs. I am beginning to wish I hadn't bothered. Why are you asking ME the above questions?, I suggest you go onto the blue forum you mentioned and ask those type 1s who had the audacity to 'leap in' with their experiences on THEIR conditions.

 

[ianf0ster]

What are you talking about? I replied to your post in an effort to help give an explanation as to why DKA occurs. I am beginning to wish I hadn't bothered. Why are you asking ME the above questions?, I suggest you go onto the blue forum you mentioned and ask those type 1s who had the audacity to 'leap in' with their experiences on THEIR conditions.

Sorry, I thought you were weighing in to agree with the strange idea that as a T1D you need to eat carbs in order to be able to inject enough inject enough insulin in order to have sufficient insulin to prevent DKA.

I suspect that those 'blue' T1D's have never tried reducing their carbs as Dr Ian Lake has, because they were told just as T2D's are, that you must eat carbs (to raise your BG) so you can take your medication in order to lower your BG.
None of them mentioned ever having had DKA, so I suspect their experience of it is zero just like mine.

 

[ianf0ster]

Official documentary video of 0 5 100 :

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Good scientific experiment to disprove the "essential carbs" mantra.
However I have never understood this mantra, because of the centuries, nay millennia, of reports of people surviving long periods of starvation with only water to drink.
For example shipwrecked in an open boat.
It is almost as if our bodies were designed to live on stored fat for extended periods.