Meat & diabetes risk

[Doireallyneedanams]

I’ve just read an article suggesting that chicken and red meat are the causes of type 2 diabetes, over sugar and carbohydrates or in some cases equally so. Something to do with the heme iron. Is this actually true? If so then seemingly if you are predisposed genetically the only way to avoid diet wise would be to eat a vegetarian diet.

It just sounds crazy and I’m curious if anyone knows about this.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

Always good to know the source of the article. Who wrote it? Who is funding the studies?

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

Always good to know the source of the article. Who wrote it? Who is funding the studies?

There are a few, here’s one of them -
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170905134506.htm

 

[xfieldok]

Personally I think it's twaddle.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Hmmm....first pass it talks of a percentage increased risk but doesn't quote the baseline.

For example, if there is a 10% risk which is increased by 25% that is then 12.5% risk or an overall increase of 2.5%.

That is also only for the top quartile.

Interesting, and I assume that they confirmed that the cohorts has similar weights, carbohydrate consumption, exercise profiles. This hopefully would be a given if large numbers were involved.

No signs that ScienceDaily itself has any hidden agenda.

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/201...-increased-type-2-diabetes-risk-90244842.html

Odd, as chicken breast doesn’t contain much heme iron at all so although at first glance it sounds scary, I expect you’d have to consume a significant amount of the correct types of poultry and meats for this to be of any concern.

 

[Oldvatr]

There are a few, here’s one of them -
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170905134506.htm

That i based on this study
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/186/7/824/3848997

The funding is listed under acknowledgements.

I note that only one aspect of diet was looked at namely animal products vs plant based. However over the length of the study other aspects of the diet will have changed significantly by modernization and westernization and possibly the smoking and drinking habits, and it may be that meat eaters are more affluent, and consume more westernized processed foods such as beefburgers. This is not compensated for in their meta study, which is a simple cross correlation only.

Heme iron is a necessary food for human life, as it is far more biovalent (i,e, more easily absorbed) than the iron found in plants. also meat products supply many vitamins and minerals that are essential, and again not easily found in plant foods. Vitamin B12 is one that must be supplemented if following a non animal food diet.

As an aside, Impossible Burger has added a synthetic form of heme iron to their product to make it appeal to omnivores. Unfortunately the amount they add is many times the RDA for us, and apparently 2 burger patties in a meal is starting to become toxic, The problem with this is that it is one mineral that we can overdose on in a fatal way, since excess iron is not excreted by the body, and it builds up quite quickly. The opposite is also a problem in that iron deficiency leads to a form of anemia which can also become fatal. Many on this forum will be taking a heme iron supplement, and this requires the GP to monitor the blood tests regularly to check feretin levels.

 

[Resurgam]

To avoid foods with no carbs to eat foods which tend to have carbs, some of them lots of them - for anyone unable to process carbs efficiently is not logical behaviour.

 

[Robbity]

I wonder what they feed their meat producing animals on in or around Singapore?

But I think it's a load of old codswallop. It certainly took me over 70 years of eating red meat and chicken to end up with diabetes, and then it was only because I was eating (thanks to husband) a high carb lower meat diet. Diagnosed with T2, I immediately reduced carbs, increased meat, etc, and almost immediately was down to low pre diabetic levels - how weird is that then!

 

[lucylocket61]

That i based on this study
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/186/7/824/3848997

The funding is listed under acknowledgements.

I note that only one aspect of diet was looked at namely animal products vs plant based. However over the length of the study other aspects of the diet will have changed significantly by modernization and westernization and possibly the smoking and drinking habits, and it may be that meat eaters are more affluent, and consume more westernized processed foods such as beefburgers. This is not compensated for in their meta study, which is a simple cross correlation only.

Heme iron is a necessary food for human life, as it is far more biovalent (i,e, more easily absorbed) than the iron found in plants. also meat products supply many vitamins and minerals that are essential, and again not easily found in plant foods. Vitamin B12 is one that must be supplemented if following a non animal food diet.

As an aside, Impossible Burger has added a synthetic form of heme iron to their product to make it appeal to omnivores. Unfortunately the amount they add is many times the RDA for us, and apparently 2 burger patties in a meal is starting to become toxic, The problem with this is that it is one mineral that we can overdose on in a fatal way, since excess iron is not excreted by the body, and it builds up quite quickly. The opposite is also a problem in that iron deficiency leads to a form of anemia which can also become fatal. Many on this forum will be taking a heme iron supplement, and this requires the GP to monitor the blood tests regularly to check feretin levels.

Do you have a link to artificial heme please? I read somewhere that our bodies can't use it anyway, and it's only function is for taste. Of course, now I can't find where I read it.

I am also struggling to find the nutritional information about fake meat in general.

Pm is fine, so as to avoid derailing. I was sure we had a thread about it somewhere.

 

[VashtiB]

Hi,

I currently eat a lot more meat than I used to - it has been what has brought my blood sugar levels into the normal range. For me it is all about the meter. I don't really like red meat but my body certainly does.

I don't have the emotional energy to read these studies but if you do that is great- I think you need to make sure you read them with a critical eye- who is funding them and how do they remove other potential causes-i agree with @Oldvatr .

I also agree with @Robbity as that is pretty much my own experience- eating less meat contributed to getting diabetes as I was having carbs instead,

 

[Member496333]

Is this actually true?

No.

 

[LaoDan]

I wonder what they feed their meat producing animals on in or around Singapore?

But I think it's a load of old codswallop. It certainly took me over 70 years of eating red meat and chicken to end up with diabetes, and then it was only because I was eating (thanks to husband) a high carb lower meat diet. Diagnosed with T2, I immediately reduced carbs, increased meat, etc, and almost immediately was down to low pre diabetic levels - how weird is that then!

Most of our meats come from Aus, NZ, or China(pork). I don’t believe the study for a second. But maybe it will reduce prices in Singapore lol

 

[Oldvatr]

Most of our meats come from Aus, NZ, or China(pork). I don’t believe the study for a second. But maybe it will reduce prices in Singapore lol

I think the 46% WTO tariffs coming in after Brexit will reduce our consumption somewhat. We may have difficulty fishing our waters too, especially wrt N Ireland waters. Fish from EU waters will be on strict quota if at all, and also have the WTO tariff added to them.

The other problem is that a lot of the meat reared in the UK currently gets shipped to the EU for slaughter and packing, which also has a 46% WTO export tariff followed by the 46% import tariff getting it back into the supermarkets here.

 

[Tophat1900]

It just sounds crazy.

It is... ignore it.

 

[carty]

Most of our meats come from Aus, NZ, or China(pork). I don’t believe the study for a second. But maybe it will reduce prices in Singapore lol

I buy my meat from a local butcher ,all locally sourced
Carol

 

[Mr_Pot]

The other problem is that a lot of the meat reared in the UK currently gets shipped to the EU for slaughter and packing, which also has a 46% WTO export tariff followed by the 46% import tariff getting it back into the supermarkets here.

Maybe the UK should just eat the meat that we produce. I am sure slaughter and packing is not beyond our capabilities.

 

[Oldvatr]

Maybe the UK should just eat the meat that we produce. I am sure slaughter and packing is not beyond our capabilities.

Not so simple nowadays. It used to be that meat would be processed on the farm. But e.coli regulations stopped that. Then the Foot and Mouth epidemic struck.and we discovered that our animals were being shipped the length and breadth of the country to be processed by a few regional abatoirs. This was also stopped to remove cross contamination. Animal passport were introduced, and severe hygiene and safety regulations came in. This resulted in most small abattoirs closing, and even some larger processors found it to be nonviable. Then the EU introduces new open border trading rules and fees systems of subsidies that actually made it cheaper to ship live animals to Hungary, Romania, or Poland, slaughter them there, then ship frozen carcasses back to Belgium for cleaning butchering and packing. The horsemeat scandal showed the extent of this process, and that apart from a couple of slaughter houses in Wales and Norfolk, most UK meat was being sent abroad.

We do not have many slaughter houses in the UK. In my county there were a few, but they folded and instead there was a municipal livestock facility built as a central cradle-to-grave hub. It was designed to do slaughtering, but the facilities are no longer used since it is cheaper due to EU subsidies to ship out/ ship in as described above. I suppose the centre could reopen the facility.

I think Brexit with No Deal will concentrate the mind wonderfully for many of us. Our export market will disappear, and the businesses servicing that market will no longer be viable and will need to turn around overnight. On the plus side, we will not be transporting live animals so cruelly.

PS I omitted to mention the second Foot and Mouth epidemic, the Swine Flu epidemic, and the BSE event which also forced tighter restrictions on abatoirs, especially on the post mortem processing facilities.

 

[Robbity]

Maybe the UK should just eat the meat that we produce. I am sure slaughter and packing is not beyond our capabilities.

Well presumably yes, as in "the good old days" we were capable and able to do so.

 

[Mr_Pot]

We do not have many slaughter houses in the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...als-meat-vegan-diet-plant-based-a9303386.html