how many carbs is "a lot"

[Carpetsalesman]

Hi,

I'm pre, with FBGs around 6, and usually bouncing around 5.5-6.5 during the day on low carb. My GP says I'm totally fine on the back of a HbA1C test which (for reasons which are dull and time consuming to explain) is not reliable for me, and an oral glucose which returned perfect results. So I'm on my own, I think I have an issue, but I'm never really sure about it because I've passed the test. But I know that a "normal" person runs at 4.5-5 and doesn't see any spike regardless of what they eat.

I just ate about 50gs of carbs, lentil soup and a slice of wholemeal toast. I was at 10.2 after 3 hours and have just got back to 6.0 after five hours.

I can't reconcile the difference between the oral glucose test pass and the soup and toast fail. Is it because of the GI or something? Do you guys see similar spikes and long tails with certain kinds of foods? Does the amount of carbs overwhelm your insulin response and then the low GI backs up your BG for hours afterwards? Trying to understand what is going on from a diet perspective.

 

[Resurgam]

I have found that legumes of any sort hit me harder than might be expected from their reported carbohydrate content, and I don't eat ordinary bread at all, only the very low carb ones and not much of it at one time.
Personally GI is irrelevant, if the carbs are there, I digest them, and for many type twos it is not the amount of insulin, as they are producing loads, but their resistance to it which is the reason they have high blood glucose levels.
As you have the means to test your blood I suggest avoiding those meals which cause spikes, adjusting the amounts or swapping high carb foods so you are at normal levels as much as possible.

 

[TriciaWs]

Too many carbs? - that varies so much and the only way to find out is to test before and after eating/drinking.
I started by testing every meal, testing each at least 3 times, then just testing any new foods or new combinations of foods. I also checked the impact of tea, cocoa and coffee which are the main drinks I have apart from water.
I found I could have up to 85g over a day but no more than 30g in a meal. But I know some people have to go much lower - I was lucky because my T2 was caught early and I went low carb immediately.

Once I'd been in remission for a while I carefully upped my carbs to 100g and occasionally got to 115g. I still test once a week, and get an HbA1c test every 6 mths so I'll know if I need to cut back again.

 

[Carpetsalesman]

Makes sense, thanks.

I think get the GI thing, slightly faster, slightly slower, who cares it's all going to the same place.

 

[Mr_Pot]

But I know that a "normal" person runs at 4.5-5 and doesn't see any spike regardless of what they eat.

If you mean that a non-diabetic does not see a rise in BG after eating that is not true. Exactly how much rise depends on the type of food and the quantity of carbs. It is however usual that non-diabetic won't still have an elevated BG about 2 hours after starting their meal.

 

[Grant_Vicat]

If you mean that a non-diabetic does not see a rise in BG after eating that is not true. Exactly how much rise depends on the type of food and the quantity of carbs. It is however usual that non-diabetic won't still have an elevated BG about 2 hours after starting their meal.

Yes, I witnessed a non-diabetic go up to 10.6 just over half an hour after eating.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Makes sense, thanks.

I think get the GI thing, slightly faster, slightly slower, who cares it's all going to the same place.

Insulin response occurs in two phases, a fast initial phase and longer duration second phase. If a Type 2 diabetic has impaired 1st phase but good 2nd phase insulin production, then foods that take longer to digest (low GI) could be beneficial. Individual's responses to different foods vary which makes testing necessary.

 

[MrsA2]

I think the answer to your question is that the carbs in that meal were too much at once for you
You might want to repeat it another 2 or 3 times just to double check, and then try with just the soup or just the bread and see what happens then.

I'm not sure if this is science or not, but what I've gleaned from reading this forum is that some carbs affect different people differently, for example some can eat carrots, some can't so I don't think its as simple as being a carb total number

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi,

I'm pre, with FBGs around 6, and usually bouncing around 5.5-6.5 during the day on low carb. My GP says I'm totally fine on the back of a HbA1C test which (for reasons which are dull and time consuming to explain) is not reliable for me, and an oral glucose which returned perfect results. So I'm on my own, I think I have an issue, but I'm never really sure about it because I've passed the test. But I know that a "normal" person runs at 4.5-5 and doesn't see any spike regardless of what they eat.

I just ate about 50gs of carbs, lentil soup and a slice of wholemeal toast. I was at 10.2 after 3 hours and have just got back to 6.0 after five hours.

I can't reconcile the difference between the oral glucose test pass and the soup and toast fail. Is it because of the GI or something? Do you guys see similar spikes and long tails with certain kinds of foods? Does the amount of carbs overwhelm your insulin response and then the low GI backs up your BG for hours afterwards? Trying to understand what is going on from a diet perspective.

Carpetsalesman - if the A1c test is unreliable for you, have you heard of a fructosamine test? This can be used, depending on the reason the A1c is unreliable, in your case.

Many people have found they have their own blood glucose rocket fuel, with some able to handle sugar better than rice or potato, vice versa and so on.

A 10.2 at 3 hours would feel too high for me, so if that happened again, I'd be inclined to swap something around. Personally, a one-off test or result for me would be a clue to the puzzle, not the answer. Answers come from more data.

 

[Carpetsalesman]

Carpetsalesman - if the A1c test is unreliable for you, have you heard of a fructosamine test? This can be used, depending on the reason the A1c is unreliable, in your case.

Many people have found they have their own blood glucose rocket fuel, with some able to handle sugar better than rice or potato, vice versa and so on.

A 10.2 at 3 hours would feel too high for me, so if that happened again, I'd be inclined to swap something around. Personally, a one-off test or result for me would be a clue to the puzzle, not the answer. Answers come from more data.

Yes I might pursue more tests, would be interesting to see what the insulin is doing too. But I'm aware that I may be just looking for an answer that fits my hypothesis.

The long tail (6 hours) is a bit weird, I've seen other foods drop much more quickly than that. So yeah maybe lentils are the enemy.

Anyway, very helpful, thanks!

 

[DCUKMod]

Yes I might pursue more tests, would be interesting to see what the insulin is doing too. But I'm aware that I may be just looking for an answer that fits my hypothesis.

The long tail (6 hours) is a bit weird, I've seen other foods drop much more quickly than that. So yeah maybe lentils are the enemy.

Anyway, very helpful, thanks!

Not all foods are equal in terms of blood glucose, and not all people react in the same way to any given food.

For me, pasta didn't make my blood sugar rocket, but it did elevate them " a bit", but importantly I remained elevated for a day or so. I gave up pasta as I didn't think it worth it. Noe being gluten-free, there's even less temptation to try it again.

 

[LaoDan]

Hi,

I'm pre, with FBGs around 6, and usually bouncing around 5.5-6.5 during the day on low carb. My GP says I'm totally fine on the back of a HbA1C test which (for reasons which are dull and time consuming to explain) is not reliable for me, and an oral glucose which returned perfect results. So I'm on my own, I think I have an issue, but I'm never really sure about it because I've passed the test. But I know that a "normal" person runs at 4.5-5 and doesn't see any spike regardless of what they eat.

I just ate about 50gs of carbs, lentil soup and a slice of wholemeal toast. I was at 10.2 after 3 hours and have just got back to 6.0 after five hours.

I can't reconcile the difference between the oral glucose test pass and the soup and toast fail. Is it because of the GI or something? Do you guys see similar spikes and long tails with certain kinds of foods? Does the amount of carbs overwhelm your insulin response and then the low GI backs up your BG for hours afterwards? Trying to understand what is going on from a diet perspective.

Another thing to consider is, what was already in your system. If you had bacon and eggs with keto coffee for breakfast, then a high carb lunch, I would expect that scenario to have longer lasting effects than if you ate the high carb meal fasted.

 

[Mbaker]

Non diabetics can and do spike. Dr Sarah Hallberg was in the 9's after having water melon and Dr Andreas Enfield was also in the 9's after a meal at a conference meal. It is not a given that all foods spike everyone in the same way, so it is worth eating to your meter to find out your tolerances.

Spikes can be self defined. I recently tested half an apple from my garden; my first apple in around 4.5 years, alongside my usual afters of coconut pancakes, berries and nuts. 2 hours later I was at 6.3 - unacceptable for me as usually circa 5.6 / 5.7. I did not go over a 2 for an increase from base, but I stay under 6 99.99% of the time, so do mot expect to see a 6 plus. The next morning my fbg was 5.1, again unacceptable for me, these days my maximum is 4.7, or with intense exercise 3.8 to 4.4 - again many would be content with a 5.1 fbg, so we have to set our own boundaries.

 

[ianf0ster]

..............................................
Spikes can be self defined. I recently tested half an apple from my garden; my first apple in around 4.5 years, alongside my usual afters of coconut pancakes, berries and nuts. 2 hours later I was at 6.3 - unacceptable for me as usually circa 5.6 / 5.7. I did not go over a 2 for an increase from base, but I stay under 6 99.99% of the time, so do mot expect to see a 6 plus. The next morning my fbg was 5.1, again unacceptable for me, these days my maximum is 4.7, or with intense exercise 3.8 to 4.4 - again many would be content with a 5.1 fbg, so we have to set our own boundaries.

Yes we certainly are all different and at different stages in our control of Diabetes.
Fasting BG is the slowest one to reduce, so we have to be patient.
Although my HbA1C isn't too bad - back down to lower end of pre-diabetic, my FBG has hardly reduced. Thus I'm very happy with anything below 6.0 and find anything below 6.8 to be acceptable for me. It may well take another year or more before I can expect to see regular FGB readings below 5.0
So I control what I can - the post-prandial rises.