Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[KK123]

Isn't it just, and yet apparently it's just a touch of the flu!!

Was talking to my brother in law earlier. He works in a petrol station and he was saying the abuse he gets from people if he reminds them to wear a mask is quite incredible. Quotes from "why should I?" to those that can't be printed on a public forum! One person angrily stated that they were exempt from wearing a mask. When my BIL asked what the exemption was they couldn't actually come up with anything! The latest guidance he has been given from head office is to not ask anyone from the BAME community to wear a mask in case it offends them.. I'm genuinely interested to know if anyone would be offended if they were asked to wear a mask in a place where it is apparently mandatory to do so?

Dear me, people are going crazy. I doubt if anyone from the BAME community (myself included) would be any more or less offended than anyone else. As for asking a person what their medical reason is for not wearing a mask, well good luck to him with that one, he has NO right to. As to your last question Max, I'm afraid the answer is a big fat YES! I cannot count the number of issues & aggression that has raised. x

 

[lucylocket61]

I read something earlier re Long Covid where in some the brain is affected in a way that it ages 10 years or so and peoples IQ has decreased. I'm a bit of a muppet so my IQ can't get much lower anyway!!

Seriously though this seems one savage virus in many ways. This 95-99% survival rate which gets bandied about seems to blinker some peoples thinking that if you get it and survive it all will be ok when the reality, certainly in some, seems quite the opposite.

yes, as someone with long covid, I agree that the severity of this is being underplayed by the media and government.

 

[Max68]

Dear me, people are going crazy. I doubt if anyone from the BAME community (myself included) would be any more or less offended than anyone else. As for asking a person what their medical reason is for not wearing a mask, well good luck to him with that one, he has NO right to. As to your last question Max, I'm afraid the answer is a big fat YES! I cannot count the number of issues & aggression that has raised. x

I don't think he asked what medical reason they had, more likely what the reason for an exemption was. So if someone replies that they don't have to wear a mask for medical reasons he certainly wouldn't query that. This particular person was quite aggressive and said they were exempt from wearing a mask. My BIL just asked as to what reason and the person couldn't come up with a reason. If they had said for a medical reason as you say he wouldn't have queried that. It's tough for workers though because I guess every single person could not wear a mask and just say at the door that they are exempt.

 

[Max68]

yes, as someone with long covid, I agree that the severity of this is being underplayed by the media and government.

How you coping Lucy?

 

[lucylocket61]

How you coping Lucy?

its a bit scary, to be honest. My mother died of late affects of polio, and I am hoping this virus isnt similar. My asthma flare ups are the worst scary thing, and my blood sugar levels rising.

On a positive note, there are a lot of others with it who are supporting each other, and I have good weeks now, then a bad few days, and so it goes on. Its been since late March, early April, when I first got it. I was one of the last ones to use my local surgery before lockdown, and had to complain about the lack of handwash and having to use the touchscreen. I think thats where I got it, as I got ill about 5 days later.

 

[Max68]

Just had an interesting chat with my new case manager at the DWP. It seems that even they don't know what's happening with all the changing rules constantly. Nice guy though but interestingly said that savings are different from income/wages so the last time I claimed UC I probably got hammered on deductions for savings when I didn't need to as if you take off each wage slip over a period of time your savings will be far lower than what I thought they looked. IE I assumed savings were what your bank account balance was but of course a lot of that is wage packets!! Oh well better finding out late than never!! He said that If there is any need to see any evidence of my capital he will let me know but for now you I do not need to worry about it. At least they give you all this in writing so peace of mind.

 

[Max68]

its a bit scary, to be honest. My mother died of late affects of polio, and I am hoping this virus isnt similar. My asthma flare ups are the worst scary thing, and my blood sugar levels rising.

On a positive note, there are a lot of others with it who are supporting each other, and I have good weeks now, then a bad few days, and so it goes on. Its been since late March, early April, when I first got it. I was one of the last ones to use my local surgery before lockdown, and had to complain about the lack of handwash and having to use the touchscreen. I think thats where I got it, as I got ill about 5 days later.

Hope you start to get more good days than bad and recover fully soon..

It's incredible how modern technology has made life more dangerous in many ways with all these touch screens. Sure contactless is one improved technological advance but shared touch screens are a nightmare. I've seen those in surgeries and the person in front coughs or sneezes and then used it so I tended to go an queue and stand behind someone who coughed or sneezed!!! I refused if I could to use those in fast food restaurants. I mean you use a touchscreen, collect your food and how many people leave their food and go and wash their hands before eating?!

 

[Jbicheno]

That in itself would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. You just want to wear a mask and yet OH are working from home to keep themselves safe!! Is there an eyes to the heavens emoji on here?!

Any luck with your Union? There is a letter that you can complete which states that you will not be returning to work unless, this, this, this and this is sorted. However my area representative at least did advise me that to complete that one you need the Unions input. I never needed it in the end.

In my opinion I think you need to call their bluff and wear a mask. If they ask you to remove it then challenge them to take you to a tribunal and if they decide to terminate your employment then say you will take them to an unfair dismissal Tribunal and will speak to the press. If you don't want to turn up wearing one then email your Head in advance of next week saying that is what you will do.

Not easy to do granted but you are playing by the rules and in all honesty aren't getting any help. What is a tribunal going to do when you want to wear a mask not only for your peace of mind but for the safety of others. It's a reasonable request in the workplace and again in my opinion you hold all the cards if it goes that far. What are they going to say? - That it is against policy? Any decent "lawyer" would be able to show that policy endangers yourself and others.

Talk to the CAB before going this way if that it what you wish but also call back you Union and ask for a new representative because they aren't assisting you enough in my opinion.

I’m hoping that tomorrow I will be able to access the OH report. Depending on what that recommends, I will know what the next steps are that I’m going to take. If I’m not allowed to wear a mask I will definitely be contacting my Union. Especially given my LA have opened a pathway for wearing one. I must admit though, I’m finding this fight very stressful and upsetting and although I do want to continue to work for a few more years I’m not sure how much more of this I can take.

 

[Jbicheno]

Unable to sleep properly again. Emailed my Union early this morning. I quoted my local authority’s new guidance on face masks in the classroom. Hopefully, they will be able to do something for me.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I don't think he asked what medical reason they had, more likely what the reason for an exemption was. So if someone replies that they don't have to wear a mask for medical reasons he certainly wouldn't query that. This particular person was quite aggressive and said they were exempt from wearing a mask. My BIL just asked as to what reason and the person couldn't come up with a reason. If they had said for a medical reason as you say he wouldn't have queried that. It's tough for workers though because I guess every single person could not wear a mask and just say at the door that they are exempt.

i would not dream of being aggressive to your BIL if he asked me if I had a medical exemption even if that is discriminatory but would leave the petrol station (don't drive but have previously used the M&S part to buy food) now I generally avoid places that have mask policing policies as don't want to make staff feel awkward nor assume that they have the same view as the majority pro masking population.
Some of us do not feel it is necessary or virtuous to wear a mask. It has been imposed in a draconian way on the back of extreme fear mongering so I guess I am a conscientious objector and do not want to pretend that I have a medical exemption in order to make my life easier.
Equally I am sure there are plenty of people who don't want to be told what to do and have no regard for others; if someone drops their takeaway box or empty tin etc. into the street then I am sometimes brave enough to ask those people to pick up their litter!
I think this issue is different.

 

[Alexandra100]

if someone drops their takeaway box or empty tin etc. into the street then I am sometimes brave enough to ask those people to pick up their litter!

Well done indeed!

 

[NicoleC1971]

Well done indeed!

Well like I say I sometimes do it and it sometimes works!!

 

[Alexandra100]

Some of us do not feel it is necessary or virtuous to wear a mask

Have you considered that even if the policy on wearing masks in indoors public spaces is mistaken, many of us do believe or at any rate hope that we may be somewhat protected from people carrying the disease if they wear masks. I am old, with lots of health problems. If I catch Covid it will probably be the end of me. If I see you in my supermarket without a mask, I will feel threatened and angry. Then I will excuse you by telling myself that you may have a physical or mental health reason. I hate wearing a mask. I get hot, uncomfortable and my glasses steam up. I live such a sheltered life, it is extremely improbable that I have Covid. I don't need to wear a mask to protect others. But they don't know that, so for their peace of mind it makes sense to me to do it.

 

[Alexandra100]

Well like I say I sometimes do it and it sometimes works!!

I too sometimes make such heroic efforts. I find the key is to approach the offending person as pleasantly and non-judgmentally as possible. I recently had a success telling a student smoking on the University campus that smoking was forbidden there even outdoors. I felt really sorry for him as he leapt to his feet to extinguish his rollup! In the past I also had a pleasant exchange with a stationary motorist in the park where I was running laps, when I asked him to put off his engine. Nice people often don't realise the effect their actions have on others and are willing to change. HOWEVER these are dangerous times, many are super-stressed and angry, do proceed with care! If in doubt, say nowt!!!

 

[Fairygodmother]

I find the plethora of reasons why people don’t, or can be excused from wearing a mask is counterintuitive. If this virus is spread by aerosols, and there’s a lot of evidence that it is, then why put those who are more likely to die if they contract Covid at greater risk?

 

[Fairygodmother]

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa939/5867798

 

[Fairygodmother]

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857

 

[Max68]

i would not dream of being aggressive to your BIL if he asked me if I had a medical exemption even if that is discriminatory but would leave the petrol station (don't drive but have previously used the M&S part to buy food) now I generally avoid places that have mask policing policies as don't want to make staff feel awkward nor assume that they have the same view as the majority pro masking population.
Some of us do not feel it is necessary or virtuous to wear a mask. It has been imposed in a draconian way on the back of extreme fear mongering so I guess I am a conscientious objector and do not want to pretend that I have a medical exemption in order to make my life easier.
Equally I am sure there are plenty of people who don't want to be told what to do and have no regard for others; if someone drops their takeaway box or empty tin etc. into the street then I am sometimes brave enough to ask those people to pick up their litter!
I think this issue is different.

I guess we will always agree to disagree on many an issue but as long as we keep it courteous I always like a good debate.. Life is always about opinions and would be boring if we all agreed!

As I said my BIL didn't ask a customer if they had a medical exemption, he just asked if they could wear a mask as it was on site policy. When the customer refused they said they didn't have to wear one. He merely asked why, which I think anyone would, but they couldn't give him a reason,. Medical reasons weren't mentioned by either side.

I guess I haven't got a problem with it because, bar the obvious reasons, I play golf and am for my sins a smoker so suffer plenty of rules, some petty that I don't agree with, but go along with because it's particular policy. Some golf clubs want you to tuck your shirts in or wear a certain coloured socks. Petty in the extreme to me, but I find at the end of the day if I want to play that course then I'll either go with the rules or go and play somewhere else.

I guess not wearing a mask in a place where it is policy is like me lighting up in a pub or bar and then when a member of staff points it out I stand my ground and say I don't agree with the policy and keep puffing away. I don't do that. I don't agree that certain places have a small corner for smokers miles away from anywhere but I will always adhere to the rules or I have the option to not go to that particular place. If I am in an outside restaurant where you can smoke but people are eating close by I won't light up as a courtesy even if others do. So I guess those of us who go by the rules in other areas of life, no matter how petty they seem to us, can get frustrated when we see others not doing the same thing.

 

[KK123]

I guess we will always agree to disagree on many an issue but as long as we keep it courteous I always like a good debate.. Life is always about opinions and would be boring if we all agreed!

As I said my BIL didn't ask a customer if they had a medical exemption, he just asked if they could wear a mask as it was on site policy. When the customer refused they said they didn't have to wear one. He merely asked why, which I think anyone would, but they couldn't give him a reason,. Medical reasons weren't mentioned by either side.

I guess I haven't got a problem with it because, bar the obvious reasons, I play golf and am for my sins a smoker so suffer plenty of rules, some petty that I don't agree with, but go along with because it's particular policy. Some golf clubs want you to tuck your shirts in or wear a certain coloured socks. Petty in the extreme to me, but I find at the end of the day if I want to play that course then I'll either go with the rules or go and play somewhere else.

I guess not wearing a mask in a place where it is policy is like me lighting up in a pub or bar and then when a member of staff points it out I stand my ground and say I don't agree with the policy and keep puffing away. I don't do that. I don't agree that certain places have a small corner for smokers miles away from anywhere but I will always adhere to the rules or I have the option to not go to that particular place. If I am in an outside restaurant where you can smoke but people are eating close by I won't light up as a courtesy even if others do. So I guess those of us who go by the rules in other areas of life, no matter how petty they seem to us, can get frustrated when we see others not doing the same thing.

It's all about the difference between a 'rule' or 'guideline' and the actual Law I reckon. We can't choose to follow the Laws we agree with and those we don't (without penalty of course) and without appearing pompous it does seem that many people who don't agree with mask wearing etc are happy to risk a penalty for their principles. x

 

[Max68]

One thing I would ask you though Nicole is this just out of interest. If a little old man/lady/mother of a small child came up to you in a supermarket and said that he/she/they had numerous medical conditions so would you mind wearing a mask to make them feel safer would you put one on?