How low carb to go

[Sigaru]

First post on here. Been diagnosed for a few years and managed ok. I've been on insulin for a year - this has increased slowly, and now more quickly. Last 2 weeks has been a series of hypos followed by hypers despite not doing anything different.

The honeymoon is over. :/

Thinking of going low carb and wondering how others manage. And how low carb to go. It needs to be achievable but if the results are there then I know I will commit.

I'm 6 foot 5, enjoy my food. And like a beer. I fear this wont be easy.

 

[Antje77]

Thinking of going low carb and wondering how others manage. And how low carb to go. It needs to be achievable but if the results are there then I know I will commit.

Hi @Sigaru , and welcome to the forum!

I can only speak for myself (on insulin for 4 years now). I often choose lower carb meals because I find it easier to correctly dose for, but I don't aim for a certain amount of carbs per day.

How are you deciding on your doses? Are you using a carbs to insulin ratio? Do you use the same ratio over the day? I found I need much more insulin for the same amount of carbs in the morning than I do in the evening, and it fluctuates throughout the month as well.

 

[Sigaru]

Hi thanks for responding. I contacted the nurse team today to ask for advice and they have requested my libre details and said to get the carbsandcals app. Which I've done.

I'm on the waiting list to see a dietician who will advise on ratios. So got to try to make sense of it myself for a little while.

Stressing myself out by not wanting to eat if above 7 on my libre. Then I let it go too low which leads to feeling rough and a spike a bit later.

Have read that low carb avoids the spikes. But I fear that not eating the things I like, and cutting out a beer may make me even more grumpy. Ha.

It's a minefield

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi thanks for responding. I contacted the nurse team today to ask for advice and they have requested my libre details and said to get the carbsandcals app. Which I've done.

I'm on the waiting list to see a dietician who will advise on ratios. So got to try to make sense of it myself for a little while.

Stressing myself out by not wanting to eat if above 7 on my libre. Then I let it go too low which leads to feeling rough and a spike a bit later.

Have read that low carb avoids the spikes. But I fear that not eating the things I like, and cutting out a beer may make me even more grumpy. Ha.

It's a minefield

Sigaru - I'm not an insulin user, but before you make any changes, are you confident your basal rate is accurate for you? When did you last do a basal test?

It strikes me, if that isn't right, your task will be manyfold harder.

 

[MarkMunday]

Hi thanks for responding. I contacted the nurse team today to ask for advice and they have requested my libre details and said to get the carbsandcals app. Which I've done.

I'm on the waiting list to see a dietician who will advise on ratios. So got to try to make sense of it myself for a little while.

Stressing myself out by not wanting to eat if above 7 on my libre. Then I let it go too low which leads to feeling rough and a spike a bit later.

Have read that low carb avoids the spikes. But I fear that not eating the things I like, and cutting out a beer may make me even more grumpy. Ha.

It's a minefield

Just reducing carbs makes bolusing easier, and it doesn't have to be very low carb for that. Simply avoiding stuff like cereal and reducing portion size of things like rice or potatoes helps. To get the full benefits of low-carb eating, one has to go into ketosis. It means that the body is using fat for energy, when it used to using glucose for this. It retrains the metabolism so very little glucose is required. Staying in ketosis requires eating very low carb, though, like <30 grams a day. If this is not suitable for you, eat a moderate amount of carb and adjust your boluses accordingly.

Before making any changes, it is important that you are getting the right amount of basal insulin action over the 24 hour daily cycle. If you are not, blood glucose will fluctuate without it having anything to do with food. This really confuses the issue. So test your basal for the whole 24 hours and make any changes that are required first. Not changing basal since being in the honeymoon is likely to mean that coverage, at least during part of the day, is no longer adequate.

Regarding beer, I make my own. I make it low carb by adding in a drying agent (amylase). I also make it low alcohol by not adding sugar. Commercial low carb and/or low alcohol beers are available. You don't have to stop drinking beer.

 

[Stefp]

Hi Sigaru,
I have experimented with low carb for a few years now - I aim for 50g or less of carbs a day which works for me most of the time - others on here go lower than that but it needs to be achievable for you - occasionally I will have a day when I will eat something higher carb but the blood sugar spike this causes then puts me off and keeps me on track again! Low carb has seen my blood sugars much more stable on the whole.

You will need to try different amounts and different to find out what works for you -there are lots of people on here who can probably help more than me - my advice is to start slowly with the change, and experiment with replacing some of your favourite things so that you don’t feel deprived - I thought I could never give up my lattes with milk but now enjoy these with almond milk just as much!

 

[Antje77]

I contacted the nurse team today to ask for advice and they have requested my libre details and said to get the carbsandcals app. Which I've done.

I'm on the waiting list to see a dietician who will advise on ratios. So got to try to make sense of it myself for a little while.

Sounds like you haven't started adjusting your insulin to what you eat yet. Why not try to learn that before deciding to go on a restrictive diet?
I think there's an online course in the UK, https://www.bertieonline.org.uk/ . I don't have experience with it myself but it could be helpful to you.

Stressing myself out by not wanting to eat if above 7 on my libre. Then I let it go too low which leads to feeling rough and a spike a bit later.

You seem to have set the bar very high for yourself by not wanting to eat when above 7. When you get more comfortable calculating the dose you need for the food you'll eat you will be able to figure out how much to inject before eating and end up at a reasonable number most of the time, especially with the help of the Libre.
I feel your fear of eating when being relatively high. For me those are the perfect moments for a lower carb meal like veggies and meat, so I can eat without paying too much attention to my diabetes.

Have read that low carb avoids the spikes. But I fear that not eating the things I like, and cutting out a beer may make me even more grumpy. Ha.

Yes, eating lower carb can help. But so can learning to dose for the food you like, or something in between!
Personally, I love a beer or four, so I've made sure to learn how to dose for it, despite often choosing lower carb foods

Please don't be scared of food or higher numbers, instead try to get every bit of information from them to be able to adjust food, insulin, timing of insulin, exercise, even the time you take to finish your beer until you get it right!
And remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint, no need to get it right the first time. Seeing a high number when you don't expect it is a learning opportunity to make you think about what to change next time, it's not something like a bad grade.

 

[DCUKMod]

First post on here. Been diagnosed for a few years and managed ok. I've been on insulin for a year - this has increased slowly, and now more quickly. Last 2 weeks has been a series of hypos followed by hypers despite not doing anything different.

The honeymoon is over. :/

Thinking of going low carb and wondering how others manage. And how low carb to go. It needs to be achievable but if the results are there then I know I will commit.

I'm 6 foot 5, enjoy my food. And like a beer. I fear this wont be easy.

Signature, you mention you are an insulin user, but not what type of diabetes you have been diagnosed with? Could you clarify please?

Could you also clarify if you are taking insulin doses matching your food, or on fixed amounts for each meal? That is very important.

If you are taking fixed doses, then change your way of eating, there is a risk you could have a nasty hypo.

 

[DCUKMod]

Just reducing carbs makes bolusing easier, and it doesn't have to be very low carb for that. Simply avoiding stuff like cereal and reducing portion size of things like rice or potatoes helps. To get the full benefits of low-carb eating, one has to go into ketosis. It means that the body is using fat for energy, when it used to using glucose for this. It retrains the metabolism so very little glucose is required. Staying in ketosis requires eating very low carb, though, like <30 grams a day. If this is not suitable for you, eat a moderate amount of carb and adjust your boluses accordingly.

Before making any changes, it is important that you are getting the right amount of basal insulin action over the 24 hour daily cycle. If you are not, blood glucose will fluctuate without it having anything to do with food. This really confuses the issue. So test your basal for the whole 24 hours and make any changes that are required first. Not changing basal since being in the honeymoon is likely to mean that coverage, at least during part of the day, is no longer adequate.

Regarding beer, I make my own. I make it low carb by adding in a drying agent (amylase). I also make it low alcohol by not adding sugar. Commercial low carb and/or low alcohol beers are available. You don't have to stop drinking beer.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't agree ketosis is any form of holy grail. I have done extremely well on low carb, but I'm pretty certain I'm not in ketosis at all times.

Of course, perhaps I could achieve a lower HbA1c, but dancing around 30 for that's last 6years works for me.

 

[Stefp]

DCUKMod - I agree - for me ketosis is not the goal either - I don’t think I could sustainably eat less than 30g of carbs a day much as I would like to. BUT eating pasta, potatoes, rice, bread etc is not sustainable either - however much I try to dose for these type of foods I can never seem to get it right and it just makes managing my diabetes harder.

 

[Sigaru]

Hi Sigaru,
I have experimented with low carb for a few years now - I aim for 50g or less of carbs a day which works for me most of the time - others on here go lower than that but it needs to be achievable for you - occasionally I will have a day when I will eat something higher carb but the blood sugar spike this causes then puts me off and keeps me on track again! Low carb has seen my blood sugars much more stable on the whole.

You will need to try different amounts and different to find out what works for you -there are lots of people on here who can probably help more than me - my advice is to start slowly with the change, and experiment with replacing some of your favourite things so that you don’t feel deprived - I thought I could never give up my lattes with milk but now enjoy these with almond milk just as much!

Thankyou. I am trying 50g of carb as a maximum today. I always have porridge as it's easy and keeps me going. So with a coffee I'm already using up more than half of my allowance. Let's see how this goes. Fingers crossed.

 

[Sigaru]

Sigaru - I'm not an insulin user, but before you make any changes, are you confident your basal rate is accurate for you? When did you last do a basal test?

It strikes me, if that isn't right, your task will be manyfold harder.

Thanks, I didnt even know how to do this. Have looked into it and definitely going to try doing the test this week.

 

[Stefp]

Thankyou. I am trying 50g of carb as a maximum today. I always have porridge as it's easy and keeps me going. So with a coffee I'm already using up more than half of my allowance. Let's see how this goes. Fingers crossed.

Good luck maybe try out some lower carb alternatives as half your carbs at breakfast doesn’t leave much room to move for the rest of the day - switching regular milk for unsweetened almond milk actually tastes ok and would cut the carbs a bit for your porridge and coffee! I typically go for 10g carb t breakfast but I am not a huge breakfast person so that makes it easier!

 

[DCUKMod]

Thanks, I didnt even know how to do this. Have looked into it and definitely going to try doing the test this week.

Sigaru - are you confident altering your insulin doses, because if you reduce carbs the chances are extremely high you will need to?

If you are not confident, then I suggest you read up about it and talk to your team, before making any changes. There is no way anyone wants you to make a change, meant to be for the better, and to end up worse off.

Good luck with the basal testing. It does seem to be a real cornerstone of diabetes management for those using insulin.

 

[DCUKMod]

DCUKMod - I agree - for me ketosis is not the goal either - I don’t think I could sustainably eat less than 30g of carbs a day much as I would like to. BUT eating pasta, potatoes, rice, bread etc is not sustainable either - however much I try to dose for these type of foods I can never seem to get it right and it just makes managing my diabetes harder.

Steph - There's nothing in your profile about what sort of diabetes you have or how you are dealing with it. Without that information, it is much harder for folks to make credible, personalised comments and suggestions when you want them.

Could you maybe spend a few minutes updating your profile, please?

To do that, just log into your account, in your browser (you can do this on your browser on your phone or tablet if that is what you use), then go to your Account (top right of the screen - your user name is displayed) and take it from there.

Thanks!

 

[Sigaru]

Sigaru - are you confident altering your insulin doses, because if you reduce carbs the chances are extremely high you will need to?

If you are not confident, then I suggest you read up about it and talk to your team, before making any changes. There is no way anyone wants you to make a change, meant to be for the better, and to end up worse off.

Good luck with the basal testing. It does seem to be a real cornerstone of diabetes management for those using insulin.

Yes thanks. Low carb lunch and tried no insulin. Worked out fine so far but I am monitoring closely. First time I've been able to do that for a long time.

Thanks for checking that.

 

[Resurgam]

It might help to slowly swap the high carb foods you find problematic for lower carb options.
Rather than potato and pasta or rice try swede or cauliflower, find a low carb bread, use 'fathead pizza' dough instead of pastry, make 'chaffles' for wraps.
It might help if you can find a copy of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution from the early 2000s, and then work backwards to the usual process, using getting normal blood glucose as the goal.
Knowing the options might help with deciding what to eat day to day as you - hopefully - find meals easier to manage.

 

[Stefp]

Steph - There's nothing in your profile about what sort of diabetes you have or how you are dealing with it. Without that information, it is much harder for folks to make credible, personalised comments and suggestions when you want them.

Could you maybe spend a few minutes updating your profile, please?

To do that, just log into your account, in your browser (you can do this on your browser on your phone or tablet if that is what you use), then go to your Account (top right of the screen - your user name is displayed) and take it from there.

Thanks!

Thanks - I have updated my profile - I think!

 

[Sigaru]

It might help to slowly swap the high carb foods you find problematic for lower carb options.
Rather than potato and pasta or rice try swede or cauliflower, find a low carb bread, use 'fathead pizza' dough instead of pastry, make 'chaffles' for wraps.
It might help if you can find a copy of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution from the early 2000s, and then work backwards to the usual process, using getting normal blood glucose as the goal.
Knowing the options might help with deciding what to eat day to day as you - hopefully - find meals easier to manage.

Ordered that. Thanks for the suggestion. Managed today on 130g of carbs. So far just 8 units of novorapid this morning, nothing since. Half what needed over the last week. Pleased if it lasts overnight.

 

[DCUKMod]

Ordered that. Thanks for the suggestion. Managed today on 130g of carbs. So far just 8 units of novorapid this morning, nothing since. Half what needed over the last week. Pleased if it lasts overnight.

Please do make sure you test a lot.

Good luck with it all. You seem like a man on a mission.