Diabetic in police custody

[BRSBRI]

Yep, I would be VERY surprised if it mentioned pumps but I will take a look. Also I will make every effort to get things highlighted if it appears outdated or totally wrong etc! I suspect the policy will say 'If person has diabetes...contact Nurse for advice' BUT it's also interesting what 'training' or expertise a Nurse has. As we all know if it's an 'average' Nurse then gawd help us. x

On a separate but related topic - the shelf stable ambient meals which appear to be given to detainees I suspect are a diabetic's nightmare. @KK123 do you happen to know if there's provision for petty cash to buy something appropriate for those held in custody if not in the store?

 

[ChrisMaleType1]

So is there a full time nurse attached to a police station or do they call one in from a hospital? I agree, it seems unlikely that a general nurse will know that much about diabetes, let alone insulin pumps.

There appeared to be one nurse on duty at the police station and she was a general nurse. She didn't know much about diabetes.

 

[KK123]

On a separate but related topic - the shelf stable ambient meals which appear to be given to detainees I suspect are a diabetic's nightmare. @KK123 do you happen to know if there's provision for petty cash to buy something appropriate for those held in custody if not in the store?

Hi BRS, yes, if a person has a dietary 'requirement/need' then they can be supplied out of petty cash but it would have to lean more towards an allergy type thing really, otherwise food CAN be brought in by a friend/family member at the Detainees own expense (within reason).

 

[ChrisMaleType1]

On a separate but related topic - the shelf stable ambient meals which appear to be given to detainees I suspect are a diabetic's nightmare. @KK123 do you happen to know if there's provision for petty cash to buy something appropriate for those held in custody if not in the store?

Very sorry to hear of this @ChrisMaleType1. Very distressing for you. My younger sister works in the legal world - with the CPS as a matter of fact and she told me the following as I mentioned your post to her:
- if a detained person is in any medical trauma a nurse or medical officer must be summoned. No detained person can have access to any medicine or paraphernalia such as lancets because of safety issues to others and the detained person him/herself. The test here is reasonable requests being ignored to your detriment medically and psychologically.

- if you're saying you were denied that access to medical assistance, my sis says that will be an issue to be tackled; further if you're suggesting that because of the circumstances of your detention you felt unable to effectively present yourself at the police interview due to your diabetic medication being denied, should your case go to trial for any reason, then your counsel would have grounds to tackle this aspect too.

- you can also sue the MPS or the police service in question on a separate civil track.

- also think about heading to a citizens advice bureau for generic legal advice as well as Diabetes Org specialised advocacy.

- your MP should also be roped in...and a letter to that person is worth the effort...

I hope it all works out for you - all the best

Thanks. Yes, I made a reasonable request.

I was very unwell during the interview but I wasn't charged so I'm not complaining about that specifically.

I hope to sue the police.

I will contact Diabetes.org.uk and my MP for help.

Edit: And I'll have a look at the Citizen's Advice Bureau as well.

 

[KK123]

So the pump gets taken away because it's potentially lethal, and the Nurse has to administer insulin. How does she know how much? If my bg is at 20, I need a 100unit bolus. That could kill an average type one. If I don't get that though, I can go into DKA. Either way the system is risking lives.

Out of curiosity, do the police remove oxygen cylinders from people with breathing difficulties? They're potentially hazardous too.

And never mind an average nurse, an average GP might not be able to transfer a patient from a pump to basal bolus.

Hi Seacrow, I'm sure you don't expect me to have an answer to every scenario, each case is treated on its own merits to some extent. If the Nurse was unable to gauge how much or you were unable to tell her or she couldn't understand the pump etc, then she would have to contact a GP or the hospital. I'm afraid it's not perfect by any means, but all I can say is that as soon as the Police are able to determine what medication & doses are required, medical assistance is sought. On several occasions, notes & records either from a person's home or family are collected (at the behest of the medics) or the person is taken to hospital where Specialists are involved. As for a person with an oxygen cylinder, I doubt they would be taken into custody at all unless they'd murdered someone. As I said previously in certain cases, a person can retain their stuff under what is known as a 'constant watch'. The system is never perfect and other than a law saying 'never arrest people with diabetes on insulin' I'm not sure what the solution would be.

 

[BRSBRI]

Hi BRS, yes, if a person has a dietary 'requirement/need' then they can be supplied out of petty cash but it would have to lean more towards an allergy type thing really, otherwise food CAN be brought in by a friend/family member at the Detainees own expense (within reason).

Thank you. Appreciated.

 

[Harrysdad]

Out of interest I've always wondered how T1 would be managed in a prison environment, must be very tricky?

 

[ChrisMaleType1]

Out of interest I've always wondered how T1 would be managed in a prison environment, must be very tricky?

Yeah, I've wondered that too. I really hope they'd let diabetics have their insulin, perhaps in a pump, and bg testing equipment. I wouldn't like to have to rely on calling someone to test me every time. I think NHS guidance on pre- and post- meal bg levels is quite dangerous and stupid.

 

[Maco]

I can give two little stories on this.

Firstly I was arrested early one morning (misunderstanding) & took into custody, had my meter + basal & bolus insulin. I didn't need any insulin at the time & also refused food, all the officers on duty where very accommodating though & I don't think they would of had a problem with me requesting my insulin or my meter to check readings. Not 100% though as I didn't need it at the time..

Other little story, I was out with a group of friends drinking one night & one of the lads was also diabetic. He got into a fight & the police needed to arrest him, he didn't have any medication on his person so I explained this to the arresting officer. I then rang his mam to explain what had happened. Around two hours later I go a call to say they had released him as soon as they got him to the station because they didn't want to keep him without medication. They even give him a lift home.

 

[Seacrow]

Hi Seacrow, I'm sure you don't expect me to have an answer to every scenario, each case is treated on its own merits to some extent. If the Nurse was unable to gauge how much or you were unable to tell her or she couldn't understand the pump etc, then she would have to contact a GP or the hospital. I'm afraid it's not perfect by any means, but all I can say is that as soon as the Police are able to determine what medication & doses are required, medical assistance is sought. On several occasions, notes & records either from a person's home or family are collected (at the behest of the medics) or the person is taken to hospital where Specialists are involved. As for a person with an oxygen cylinder, I doubt they would be taken into custody at all unless they'd murdered someone. As I said previously in certain cases, a person can retain their stuff under what is known as a 'constant watch'. The system is never perfect and other than a law saying 'never arrest people with diabetes on insulin' I'm not sure what the solution would be.

I quite agree, there isn't a good solution, or even a set of reasonable rules. The police must sink inwardly every time they arrest someone who then says 'I'm diabetic'. Even checking pockets for contraband becomes a risk of a finger stick injury and then testing needed for blood borne diseases.
Asking the police to only arrest healthy people though probably isn't the solution.

 

[mercian]

Very interesting. I too was kept in a police cell for a considerable time after having my insulin pen and blood glucose monitor taken from me. What I learned from the whole ghastly experience is that the police neither understand or care what your predicament is. This is unfortunate as it will backfire on their efforts to prosecute. After just a few hours in custody I was in no state to give answers to their questions that any reasonable jury could take seriously. My case didn't actually get that far and I was released after a day, without charge. I was taken at some point to see the duty doctor but sadly he seemed less interested in examining me than in filling out some forms on his desk. He didn't even take a blood glucose reading. At some point during the night I was asked if I wanted a meal and I explained that I needed my medication. After some debate and phone calls they let me have it, and about 6 officers crammed into my cell to watch the proceedings. I was of course already feeling very unwell and my blood reading was sky-high. I asked what carbohydrate was in the meal (a microwave ready meal), but apparently this information was beyond the access of the entire Northumberland constabulary. At the time I used an app on my phone to work out how much insulin to take in order to correct a high blood sugar, and this was, of course, denied me. Needless to say I ended up very unwell and I think that helped them make the decision to release me before I needed an ambulance.

I made a complaint to the police, but it probably won't come as a surprise to anyone that the police, at least initially, investigate themselves, and in this case found that they had done nothing wrong. It took some considerable effort and time for me to get the IPCC (as it was then) involved and to no effect whatsoever.

My advice to anyone in this situation is to NOT make a complaint to the police. If you do, you are simply giving these reprobates the heads-up that you are on their case. Needless to say, they will get their wagons in a circle. Too late for you now, I know, but hopefully others might benefit.

What I would have done, had I known then what I know now, is to get legal advice from a solicitor experienced in actions against the police. Don't bother with the duty solicitor at the police station as they are likely to be ex-police.

(Edited by mod to remove personally identifying information).

 

[videoman]

Many years ago I too was arrested and put in police cells. I took my then ,the only one type of insulin and the police keeped it in their fridge and gave it to me before I was giving a meal. They acted to my best while I was in custody which amounted to 18 hours At the present ime the Deven & Cornwall police was great

 

[livabet1]

Type 1 since 1958.
What about Type 1s arrested for violent behavior as a direct result of them being Hypo!

 

[Maco]

Type 1 since 1958.
What about Type 1s arrested for violent behavior as a direct result of them being Hypo!

Dont think it would make much different, violent behaviour Is violent behaviour. Probably go down as under the influence, I'm sure if you have a car crash while Hypo that's what its classed as.

 

[KK123]

Dont think it would make much different, violent behaviour Is violent behaviour. Probably go down as under the influence, I'm sure if you have a car crash while Hypo that's what its classed as.

Hi there, it definitely would NOT be automatically classed as under the influence in the way drink or drugs might. To put it forward as a defence would require medical input but it would be akin to someone with dementia say, or a condition where they could not be held responsible for their actions. Without wishing to lump people into one category, think of a person who may have neurological issues or mental health issues. Obviously each case would be judged on its merits but no, a hypo is medical and what follows may not have been intentional or reckless (again, EACH case would be assessed as there are different levels of hypos and people are affected differently and at different levels) and all the circumstances would be taken into account before any prosecution.

 

[ChrisMaleType1]

Very interesting. I too was kept in a police cell for a considerable time after having my insulin pen and blood glucose monitor taken from me.....I made a complaint to the police, but it probably won't come as a surprise to anyone that the police, at least initially, investigate themselves, and in this case found that they had done nothing wrong. It took some considerable effort and time for me to get the IPCC (as it was then) involved and to no effect whatsoever.

My advice to anyone in this situation is to NOT make a complaint to the police. If you do, you are simply giving these reprobates the heads-up that you are on their case. Needless to say, they will get their wagons in a circle. Too late for you now, I know, but hopefully others might benefit.

What I would have done, had I known then what I know now, is to get legal advice from a solicitor experienced in actions against the police. Don't bother with the duty solicitor at the police station as they are likely to be ex-police.

(Edited by mod to remove personally identifying information).

Hi Marcian. It was interesting and helpful to read your post. If I had my time again I wouldn't answer the police's questions. In fact, the interview was cut short because I was feeling very unwell.

I've met one duty solicitor and my experience was very negative. Actually my experience of solicitors in general has been negative. I've written down your suggestion.

Yes the police initially investigate themselves. I don't know how 'independent' the IOPC is.

Nevertheless I am confident I'll be able to win compensation.

 

[Deleted member 574368]

Just wondering, given the increasing access to cgms, whether a T1 would be allowed to have their cgm reader with them in the cell? And what happens to pumpers in a cell? Maybe they are issued with basal/bolus insulin and required to remove their pump???

Huge can of worms here as regards T1 treatment.

I guess the most critical thing is that a nurse be called as soon as a patient identifies as being on insulin. Hopefully he or she would have the knowledge to recognise that a T1 needs their insulin and/or blood testing equipment.. (Oh, I'm going to go on a rampage and kill my cellmates with my lancets....) Though I guess that lancets could be used to transmit blood borne viruses (bit of s stretch but not impossible).


@ChrisMaleType1 I hope you make some waves here. It looks like the guidelines for T1s need some serious updates. Good luck.

I am T1 and use Libre2. When I was arrested all what they classed as paraphenalia was removed and I had no way of monitoring my BG. I was held in a cell for 24hrs all of this just after having a leg amputated

 

[EllieM]

I am T1 and use Libre2. When I was arrested all what they classed as paraphenalia was removed and I had no way of monitoring my BG. I was held in a cell for 24hrs all of this just after having a leg amputated

Were you denied access to insulin as well? What about a glucometer? Am struggling to think how a T1 could manage for 24 hours without access to any of their kit.

 

[Deleted member 574368]

Were you denied access to insulin as well? What about a glucometer? Am struggling to think how a T1 could manage for 24 hours without access to any of their k

Were you denied access to insulin as well? What about a glucometer? Am struggling to think how a T1 could manage for 24 hours without access to any of their kit.

On occasion I would be allowed access if the civilian staff saw it fit to open the cell door rather than open the hatch for a few seconds, there's a torte action going to court quite soon to resolve this. Would you like the details?