Keto, Fasting, and Distance Running/Training

Roggg

Well-Known Member
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286
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
I guess this is kind of an intro topic for me here, and depending on response, it might spark more discussions.

I've been running casually off and on over the last decade. I got some foot problems resolved about 18 months ago, and I've been able to run injury free, and mostly pain free since then, so since January I've started taking running a bit more seriously. By that I mean I'm following an actual, bona-fide training program at the moment. My goals are to challenge my PB in the 5k and 10k this year and run a half-marathon (for the first time) next spring.

I'm finding it frustrating how difficult it is to get good info on how to mesh keto, IF, and serious running together. There is a LOT of information about fuelling runs and workouts with carbs. The running community seems absolutely entrenched in the carb-loading paradigm. There is a little info about running on keto, but it's usually more targeted towards people who choose keto for performance reasons. As such it often contains recommendations for things like periodizing your diet so you train keto, but use carbs to race, or on hard workout days.

So I guess I'm kind of wondering if there's anyone else training at distance running (or other cardio-endurance sports), and also following keto and/or IF? If you have it all figured out, I'd love to hear from you. Some things I'm working on are how to schedule hard workouts relative to multi-day fasts. How to fuel long runs. How to replenish electrolytes on long/hard runs when the weather heats up. Whether carbs are ever needed on "race effort" runs. TIA.
 

jjraak

Expert
Messages
7,441
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Hi @rogg.

Nice you're getting back to the running you enjoy.

While I can't help, may I suggest this guy might have some interest for you, perhaps.

https://copdathlete.com/copd-news/ketogenic-diet-for-copd-the-facts/
.
Have a nephew with COPD, and while searching diets etc once I was DX'd, one of his links popped up.

Not the one posted, sadly.
But it detailed how he ate and a good bit more about diets, nutrition, for runners, that I have to say didn't stick in my mind :rolleyes:


Good luck finding a way to fit the diet & running
 

Goonergal

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
13,466
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi there @Roggg

I’m not a runner, but certainly a long distance walker and combining that with keto (well 95% carnivore) and IF. I don’t do extended fasts.

I was in training for much of the past 18 months - 2 years or so (got over an Achilles injury about a year ago) for a 32 mile day long walk around the perimeter of Manhattan (cancelled due to Covid), and got as far as one 30 mile walk completed in 9.5 hours on a hot, August day, in the sun, water fasted. On several occasions I’ve gone 15-20+ miles in one hit, at around 3.2 miles an hour, water fasted. This November just gone, I completed 215 miles across the month. Almost all walks water fasted, or at least just the odd tea with cream beforehand (aside from evening walks).

So hopefully that kind of scale is comparable to what you’re thinking of.

So far as hydration is concerned, I tend to use water during the exercise, with the addition on occasion (and also once finished) of electrolytes. I use this brand: https://www.bulk.com/uk/electrolyte-powder.html I also have my own drink, comprised of iced water, juice of half a fresh lime and some pink salt, for consumption immediately after.

I don’t find hunger a problem during exercise, but am often ravenous a day or two after a particularly long walk. Filling up with protein and fat takes care of it and I’ve never felt the need to ‘carb up’ before or after.

Hope this helps and happy to keep sharing, although I’m pretty much confined to base for a while due to illness.

Edit to say that there’s a member on here who is into long distance running, @rhubarb73 He doesn’t log in often, but just in case!

I presume you’re aware of this recent experiment: https://www.dietdoctor.com/uk-team-completes-a-100-mile-five-day-run-with-no-food


edit for typo
 
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Mbaker

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Type of diabetes
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Roggg

Well-Known Member
Messages
286
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thanks all for the feedback.
@jjraak I had a quick peak, and it looks like there's a lot of overlap. I'm going to dig a little deeper when. get some time.

@Goonergal, first of all, wow. Great work on the endurance walking. That's impressive. Next, thanks for sharing your experiences. It is helpful. My time scales might be a little different, but there is overlap. Strictly speaking "long distance running" usually refers to 5k or longer. I'm running 5k-10k right now, but I'm interested in running a half-marathon within the next year, so I expect to be running long runs this summer of between 15 and 20 km. These will be done at "easy pace" which for me means about 7min/km. So I will max out somewhere at or above 2 hour sessions. Training also involves shorter speed related workouts, so nutrition might be different for interval workouts than for long runs.
Also thanks for the pointer to the 100 mile project. It's very cool, and helps sort out the viability of running without carbs.

@HSSS thanks for the reference. Actually Phinney is my favourite "keto advocate" on YouTube, but I haven't followed Volek that closely. I will definitely order and read.

@Mbaker Yeah I ran across Zach's content already. It's pretty much exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned periodized diets. So I am digging through his content, but for me, keto is non-negotiable, so I dont know how relevant it will turn out to be.
 

Mbaker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,339
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Available fast foods in Supermarkets
Thanks all for the feedback.
@jjraak I had a quick peak, and it looks like there's a lot of overlap. I'm going to dig a little deeper when. get some time.

@Goonergal, first of all, wow. Great work on the endurance walking. That's impressive. Next, thanks for sharing your experiences. It is helpful. My time scales might be a little different, but there is overlap. Strictly speaking "long distance running" usually refers to 5k or longer. I'm running 5k-10k right now, but I'm interested in running a half-marathon within the next year, so I expect to be running long runs this summer of between 15 and 20 km. These will be done at "easy pace" which for me means about 7min/km. So I will max out somewhere at or above 2 hour sessions. Training also involves shorter speed related workouts, so nutrition might be different for interval workouts than for long runs.
Also thanks for the pointer to the 100 mile project. It's very cool, and helps sort out the viability of running without carbs.

@HSSS thanks for the reference. Actually Phinney is my favourite "keto advocate" on YouTube, but I haven't followed Volek that closely. I will definitely order and read.

@Mbaker Yeah I ran across Zach's content already. It's pretty much exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned periodized diets. So I am digging through his content, but for me, keto is non-negotiable, so I dont know how relevant it will turn out to be.
I challenged my younger brother just over 3 years ago and was able walk 80,000 steps without eating. I would have been fat adapted by then. We are both super competitive and he was fit from cycling. I only won by around 10,000 steps - he ate and I didn't. This wasn't flat out, but there was presure in knowing he was close.

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