Tannith's views on reversing T2

[Tannith]

Where is Rapilose OGTT Solution manufactured?
The product is manufactured in the Netherlands and conforms to all required UK and EU legislation.
Rapilose OGTT Solution

Rapilose Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (OGTT) Solution is a cost efficient and ready-to-use glucose solution, designed for use in glucose tolerance testing to screen for gestational diabetes and diabetes mellitus.

Each 300ml pouch of Rapilose OGTT Solution contains exactly 75g of anhydrous glucose, which is the adult dose recommended by WHO in glucose tolerance testing.

Rapilose OGTT Solution comes in a ready-to-drink format with in a 300ml aluminium foil pouch with a tamper evident twist-off cap.

Rapilose OGTT Solution is an easy to drink, pleasant tasting orange-flavoured solution that is non-carbonated and contains no colour additives. It is also gluten, lactose, fat, caffeine and alcohol free.

With no pre-mixing or measuring required, Rapilose OGTT Solution is convenient for accurately administering the required dose without any preparation. It can be stored on-site and easily used as required. It is therefore ideal for in-community testing and provides a cost effective, time saving alternative by avoiding the need to prepare test solution under clinical conditions.

 

[Lamont D]

Where is Rapilose OGTT Solution manufactured?
The product is manufactured in the Netherlands and conforms to all required UK and EU legislation.
Rapilose OGTT Solution

Rapilose Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (OGTT) Solution is a cost efficient and ready-to-use glucose solution, designed for use in glucose tolerance testing to screen for gestational diabetes and diabetes mellitus.

Each 300ml pouch of Rapilose OGTT Solution contains exactly 75g of anhydrous glucose, which is the adult dose recommended by WHO in glucose tolerance testing.

Rapilose OGTT Solution comes in a ready-to-drink format with in a 300ml aluminium foil pouch with a tamper evident twist-off cap.

Rapilose OGTT Solution is an easy to drink, pleasant tasting orange-flavoured solution that is non-carbonated and contains no colour additives. It is also gluten, lactose, fat, caffeine and alcohol free.

With no pre-mixing or measuring required, Rapilose OGTT Solution is convenient for accurately administering the required dose without any preparation. It can be stored on-site and easily used as required. It is therefore ideal for in-community testing and provides a cost effective, time saving alternative by avoiding the need to prepare test solution under clinical conditions.

I really definitely won't recommend you using this, unless under medical supervision by someone trained in specialist nursing.

There is no benefit in continually using glucose solution with T2.

Do you fast?
Do yo eat a certain amount of carbs before the test?
How do you do readings? inexpensive home monitors are notoriously inaccurate.
How do you decide what is abnormal?
What is normal?
Do you have a benchmark?
Have you any medical training, to understand the prognosis of the test?

 

[lucylocket61]

Where is Rapilose OGTT Solution manufactured?
The product is manufactured in the Netherlands and conforms to all required UK and EU legislation.
Rapilose OGTT Solution

Rapilose Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (OGTT) Solution is a cost efficient and ready-to-use glucose solution, designed for use in glucose tolerance testing to screen for gestational diabetes and diabetes mellitus.

Each 300ml pouch of Rapilose OGTT Solution contains exactly 75g of anhydrous glucose, which is the adult dose recommended by WHO in glucose tolerance testing.

Rapilose OGTT Solution comes in a ready-to-drink format with in a 300ml aluminium foil pouch with a tamper evident twist-off cap.

Rapilose OGTT Solution is an easy to drink, pleasant tasting orange-flavoured solution that is non-carbonated and contains no colour additives. It is also gluten, lactose, fat, caffeine and alcohol free.

With no pre-mixing or measuring required, Rapilose OGTT Solution is convenient for accurately administering the required dose without any preparation. It can be stored on-site and easily used as required. It is therefore ideal for in-community testing and provides a cost effective, time saving alternative by avoiding the need to prepare test solution under clinical conditions.

My issue is NOT with the product. It is with your unsupervised and frequent use of it being presented as something safe and useful.

This product clearly says it is for a medical setting.

And it does NOT measure beta cells

 

[Mr_Pot]

just don’t understand why and how you think that measuring blood glucose with a glucose tolerance test is testing beta cell function?
Because it isn’t.
It is testing glucose levels. The clue is in the name.

It is an Oral Glucose Tolerance test, it does not measure blood glucose, that is done during the test at intervals, using normal bg finger prick tests. Someone with reduced beta cell function might fail the test but that could equally be due to insulin resistance.

 

[lucylocket61]

It is therefore ideal for in-community testing

You do realise that doesn't mean at home, unsupervised? It means administer by qualified medical practitioner in a home or local surgery setting.

In-community is a term used in such settings. Community nurses, community GP's, community hospital etc. Not any random person.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

[Oldvatr]

The OGTT is useless for evaluating insulin responses. The glucose intake is effectively a step function that will perturb the hemostasis (blood glucose level which should start at fasting level (10-hour fast min)). There will be a short delay while the glucose is metabolised( the stomach takes a few minutes to transit to the duodenum where absorption takes place. Then the first insulin response should kick in, and this starts approx 6 minutes after the drink, and last for about 10 minutes. (Note: it is actually triggered as soon as the drink enters the mouth before you swallow but it takes that 6 mins to react in a normal person,) So there should be a very sharp spike observed if there was a CGM monitoring and this should be quashed by the first stage response within the 6-10 minute window. Then the glucose hit provides the very large peak that we normally see with our fingerprick devices if we test at 30 minutes (normally the first measurement of an OGTT, so it misses the stage 1 insulin response completely). After the 30-minute test has been taken, the basal insulin response ie stage 2 starts to drop the glucose level assuming you are producing insulin. The time taken to drop back to the FBG level is a measure of how diabetic you are. If it has not dropped by the time of the 4-hour measurement then you are indeed in poor shape but it cannot separate poor beta-cell function from high IR blocking it. Just that you are truly diabetic. So to check your improvement, you will need at least 2 OGTT's so you can make a comparison of the decay rate on how quickly the levels drop. Since the OGTT only has 3 basic measurements, then this info is also missing from a standard OGTT. You will need to invest in a CGM to get a better idea of the decay rate.

In a proper OGTT, the blood measurements are venous draws, and lab assayed.

 

[Brunneria]

It is an Oral Glucose Tolerance test, it does not measure blood glucose, that is done during the test at intervals, using normal bg finger prick tests. Someone with reduced beta cell function might fail the test but that could equally be due to insulin resistance.

The test is drinking a glucose drink and having a series of blood tests to measure blood glucose levels at set intervals.
Therefore blood glucose levels are tested.
Interpreting those test results gives an indication of the patient’s tolerance to the glucose drink.

 

[Tannith]

Lucozade:
"the orange flavour of the energy drink which has even more sugar in it.

The 500ml bottle has 62.5g of sugar – the equivalent of 16 teaspoons – and if you drink the whole thing you"ll be guzzling down 310 calories."
That's almost as much as is in the OGT. Is that "dangerous" too? If so it would be banned especially as the kids round here often drink more than one bottle (with their sweets) on the way home from school. I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's definitely not dangerous (unless they are T1s and haven't had their insulin).

 

[Brunneria]

Lucozade:
"the orange flavour of the energy drink which has even more sugar in it.

The 500ml bottle has 62.5g of sugar – the equivalent of 16 teaspoons – and if you drink the whole thing you"ll be guzzling down 310 calories."
That's almost as much as is in the OGT. Is that "dangerous" too? If so it would be banned especially as the kids round here often drink more than one bottle (with their sweets) on the way home from school. I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's definitely not dangerous (unless they are T1s and haven't had their insulin).

In my opinion, that amount of glucose is bad for anyone.
The UK government certainly think so.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-does-sugar-in-our-diet-affect-our-health/
That is why the ‘sugar tax’ was introduced and the amount of sugar contained in such drinks has been reduced over recent years.

Of course, a larger amount (75g) on an empty stomach, for someone with an already diagnosed dysregulation (pre-D or D), especially without medical supervision, is indeed harmful. To do it repeatedly, for no tangible benefit, with the results not even measuring the the beta cells that you want to measure? That is even more harmful.

 

[Oldvatr]

Lucozade:
"the orange flavour of the energy drink which has even more sugar in it.

The 500ml bottle has 62.5g of sugar – the equivalent of 16 teaspoons – and if you drink the whole thing you"ll be guzzling down 310 calories."
That's almost as much as is in the OGT. Is that "dangerous" too? If so it would be banned especially as the kids round here often drink more than one bottle (with their sweets) on the way home from school. I wouldn't let my kids do it, but it's definitely not dangerous (unless they are T1s and haven't had their insulin).

Not quite Lucozade, but close -----
https://www.beveragedaily.com/Article/2019/07/23/UK-government-bans-sale-of-energy-drinks-to-U16s

 

[lucylocket61]

When this thread gets to the point of someone saying that drinking a whole bottle of Lucozade is ok, because those with no diabetes can do it with no long lasting harm, despite clear governmental advice to the contrary, then the thread become absurd to the point of ridiculous. Arguing for the sake of arguing is now happening and I no longer feel that there is any goodwill or openness to learn or even be safe.

I expect tantrums and foot stamping to now ensue, like a toddler who wants to touch the oven despite repeated warnings of what will happen if they do. This is sad, when so much input has been made to present facts, research and share experiences.

 

[lucylocket61]

@Tannith when was your last HbA1c done?

 

[Tannith]

OGT is SO dangerous that the NHS and other healthcare organisations worldwide recommend it for those most vulnerable of their citizens PREGNANT WOMEN!

 

[Brunneria]

OGT is SO dangerous that the NHS and other healthcare organisations worldwide recommend it for those most vulnerable of their citizens PREGNANT WOMEN!

Tannith,
They do it ONCE and ONCE only, as a diagnostic tool.
It is carried out under close medical supervision.
That makes it a totally different proposition from the way you are doing it.
-and remember, they are doing it to check glucose levels (which it does very well).
They are not extrapolating anything to do with beta cell functionality from the results.

 

[Oldvatr]

OGT is SO dangerous that the NHS and other healthcare organisations worldwide recommend it for those most vulnerable of their citizens PREGNANT WOMEN!

Not quite what NICE guidelines say.
https://www.nice.org.uk/news/article/new-thresholds-for-diagnosis-of-diabetes-in-pregnancy
Note: the 2-hour blood plasma level of 7.8 is not from an OGTT, but is 2 hour Post Prandial.

 

[Antje77]

They do it ONCE and ONCE only, as a diagnostic tool.

And to add to that they DON'T do it to pregnant women with a history of diabetes.

 

[Tannith]

Tannith,
They do it ONCE and ONCE only, as a diagnostic tool.
It is carried out under close medical supervision.
That makes it a totally different proposition from the way you are doing it.
-and remember, they are doing it to check glucose levels (which it does very well).
They are not extrapolating anything to do with beta cell functionality from the results.

Next time you are in a supermarket take a look at the portion sizes on the dry pasta packets. Most suggest 75g. Admittedly the pasta will contain a small amount of protein +vitamins as well, but that is broadly the same as the carbs in the OGT. A bit less, but not enough to matter. None of the packets I have seen say that this is "dangerous" and should only be eaten once or twice in a lifetime. Indeed most people eat this amount of carbs at EACH MEAL 3 times a day. Often with carby snacks in between. If it were dangerous they would all have keeled over on the first day. Of course it isn't dangerous. It's what the majority of people in the developed world eat EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

[Brunneria]

Next time you are in a supermarket take a look at the portion sizes on the dry pasta packets. Most suggest 75g. Admittedly the pasta will contain a small amount of protein +vitamins as well, but that is broadly the same as the carbs in the OGT. A bit less, but not enough to matter. None of the packets I have seen say that this is "dangerous" and should only be eaten once or twice in a lifetime. Indeed most people eat this amount of carbs at EACH MEAL 3 times a day. Often with carby snacks in between. If it were dangerous they would all have keeled over on the first day. Of course it isn't dangerous. It's what the majority of people in the developed world eat EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Tannith,

Pasta digests more slowly than glucose. Glucose is a sugar by itself (see the link In my last post which discusses ‘free sugars’ - added sugars. Pasta has no ‘free sugars’). Pasta is also typically eaten as part of a meal. It hits the bloodstream even more slowly when it is eaten with protein, veg and sauces. It is therefore not comparable.

Can you not see that I, and other members, are concerned for you?
That we think you are harming yourself through a combination of ignorance and by misunderstanding what you are doing?
There isn’t a person here on the forum who would begrudge you remission, or who wants you to be harmed.
This is why you are getting these responses.
We care.
We care that you are doing these tests for the wrong reasons and with the likelihood that you are harming yourself in the process.

Also, because there may be new readers out there who may think that what you are doing to yourself is OK and who may harm themselves following your example.

 

[lucylocket61]

Next time you are in a supermarket take a look at the portion sizes on the dry pasta packets. Most suggest 75g. Admittedly the pasta will contain a small amount of protein +vitamins as well, but that is broadly the same as the carbs in the OGT. A bit less, but not enough to matter. None of the packets I have seen say that this is "dangerous" and should only be eaten once or twice in a lifetime. Indeed most people eat this amount of carbs at EACH MEAL 3 times a day. Often with carby snacks in between. If it were dangerous they would all have keeled over on the first day. Of course it isn't dangerous. It's what the majority of people in the developed world eat EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Part of the danger, as you have been told repeatedly, is the hit of glucose suddenly. You know this. AND people with type 2 diabetes dont safely eat 75g of carbs several times a day without harm. This is ridiculous now.

I understand you are frightened and like someone scared of heights, stuck on a cliff edge, afraid to let go of the crumbling ledge to reach for help. I get that. Please let us help you.

 

[Lamont D]

OGT is SO dangerous that the NHS and other healthcare organisations worldwide recommend it for those most vulnerable of their citizens PREGNANT WOMEN!

Can't believe that someone who is supposed to be intelligent and savvy on how to control their condition could post this. I do think you @Tannith need to talk to a specialist endocrinologist, who will give credible account of why the continuous glucose testing is not good for you. If you need insulin because your own insulin is not enough it has to be measured by how much carbs and sugar you eat. And if you inject too much insulin, you will become ill. Insulin is bad for your health if you have too much circulating. You don't need excess glucose either. Too much too often is irresponsible and dangerous. I have spent time in a diabetic ward a couple of times and in my local hospital they will not let the patients now, any energy drink, juice, cordial, on my recent internment, I was only offered water and black tea.
Do you know why, patients had lucozade? And when I was young it was supposed to be good for people in hospital?
It is the amount of glucose derived from it, that gives you quick energy, but the patients don't work it off. Tennis players have juice on court and are drinking fruit juices between sets, because of quick energy and replacing nutrients that have been used as the tennis player run it off. They use energy gels and powdered protein and are totally discouraged away from energy drinks, but some still do.
Every eOGTT I had was supervised by either a ward sister and house doctor, the endocrinologist was always on call. And twice, they now put you on a room designed to monitor you and others, as the test proceeds there is always a nurse to talk to if you don't feel okay and they use a cannula to draw blood before and at certain points in the test, these are sent to a laboratory. Finger prick readings are taken before every half hour or fifteen minutes on a more expensive monitor which is more accurate. And of course there is a doctor on call.
I love the relaxation chairs they use!

I'm out now, as it doesn't matter what I advise!