Covid vaccine?

[kimlala]

I’m not sure that is what that means, actually. As far as I know, emergency use vaccines and “normal” vaccines go under the same testing. Whereas the bureaucratic processes which follow the testing are different.

Emergency use authorization, does not require testing to the same degree as FDA approved. It must be tested on animals, pregnant animals (they use ferrets, for some reason their system is comparable to ours). Also these tests are run for years (7-10 yrs) before being tested on the humans that agree to be part of the research. I hope that clarifies it. A good example of not thoroughly testing was Thalidomide, given to pregnant women in the 60s to help with morning sickness. What happened was horrible and they pulled it off the market. Thalidomide - Wikipedia

Here is another one under drug for morning sickness that was not adequately tested: Drug for 'Morning Sickness' Is Suspected in Birth Defects - The Washington Post Bendectin -- sold abroad as Debendox-- Summary: One charge is that Merrell did no premarketing animal or clinical tests of safety for the unborn, even though women in the sensitive first trimester of pregnacy were the sole sales target. "It is true that no studies were done," Merrell's former medical research director, Raymond C. Pogge, said. Pogge, who invented Bendectin, made a deposition in Casa Grande, Ariz.

In essence, the Covid vaccine was not, has not been tested adequately.

 

[Brunneria]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/specific-groups/allergies.html
I posted it above. Also, look under VAERS (all doctors are suppose to enter all adverse reactions), subtitle: Adverse reactions, next drug company. VAERS is tricky, but the link above is CDC. Read through article above it talks about allergic reactions. Mercury is also listed as Thimerosal. Thimerosal and Vaccines | Vaccine Safety | CDC
This article talks specifically about mercury. With any vaccine, be at the doctor's office, drug-store, random pop-up vaccine sights, you have the right to ask for the pamphlet that list the ingredients of the vaccine. The mRNA is a little different, it is not clearly stated.

Thank you for providing those links.

The first one gives info on allergy risk - the standard information given out and widely publicised, just as any patient information document lists possible contraindications and allergy risk.

The covid vaccine ingredients listed (the 3 vaccines currently being used in the US) do not include either mercury or Thimerosal.

Therefore it is inappropriate to suggest that these vaccines are dangerous because they contain mercury (or Thimerosal).

The link that you gave about Thimerosal states clearly that
‘In July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.’
In the 22 years since then, as vaccines have been introduced (e.g. the covid vaccines) or reformulated, the Thimerosal has not been included.

Again, it is inappropriate to try to deter people from taking a covid vaccine by bringing up ancient (pre1997) information about mercury that is not used in covid vaccines.

 

[Brunneria]

Emergency use authorization, does not require testing to the same degree as FDA approved. It must be tested on animals, pregnant animals (they use ferrets, for some reason their system is comparable to ours). Also these tests are run for years (7-10 yrs) before being tested on the humans that agree to be part of the research. I hope that clarifies it. A good example of not thoroughly testing was Thalidomide, given to pregnant women in the 60s to help with morning sickness. What happened was horrible and they pulled it off the market. Thalidomide - Wikipedia

Here is another one under drug for morning sickness that was not adequately tested: Drug for 'Morning Sickness' Is Suspected in Birth Defects - The Washington Post Bendectin -- sold abroad as Debendox-- Summary: One charge is that Merrell did no premarketing animal or clinical tests of safety for the unborn, even though women in the sensitive first trimester of pregnacy were the sole sales target. "It is true that no studies were done," Merrell's former medical research director, Raymond C. Pogge, said. Pogge, who invented Bendectin, made a deposition in Casa Grande, Ariz.

In essence, the Covid vaccine was not, has not been tested adequately.

Why are you bringing up Thalidomide (from the 1960s)?
And Bendectin (not used since 1983)?

Both were tragic instances, but neither drug is relevant to a discussion about a vaccine that is being used in 2021.

 

[StewM]

Emergency use authorization, does not require testing to the same degree as FDA approved. It must be tested on animals, pregnant animals (they use ferrets, for some reason their system is comparable to ours). Also these tests are run for years (7-10 yrs) before being tested on the humans that agree to be part of the research. I hope that clarifies it. A good example of not thoroughly testing was Thalidomide, given to pregnant women in the 60s to help with morning sickness. What happened was horrible and they pulled it off the market. Thalidomide - Wikipedia

Here is another one under drug for morning sickness that was not adequately tested: Drug for 'Morning Sickness' Is Suspected in Birth Defects - The Washington Post Bendectin -- sold abroad as Debendox-- Summary: One charge is that Merrell did no premarketing animal or clinical tests of safety for the unborn, even though women in the sensitive first trimester of pregnacy were the sole sales target. "It is true that no studies were done," Merrell's former medical research director, Raymond C. Pogge, said. Pogge, who invented Bendectin, made a deposition in Casa Grande, Ariz.

In essence, the Covid vaccine was not, has not been tested adequately.

Well, again, this doesn’t seem to line up with what I’ve been able to read.

There’s quite a nice graphic in this link which shows the process: https://vaccine.unchealthcare.org/s...emergency-use-authorization-and-fda-approval/

It matches information available about the process found on the FDAs site. The process you’ve described doesn’t seem to match that. Is the process as listed on the FDA’s site incorrect or incomplete?

 

[kimlala]

Why are you bringing up Thalidomide (from the 1960s)?
And Bendectin (not used since 1983)?

Both were tragic instances, but neither drug is relevant to a discussion about a vaccine that is being used in 2021.

Showing history, history in theory repeats itself. This isn't meant for argument, only statistics. Take what you want and leave the rest. Thank you.

 

[kimlala]

Thank you for providing those links.

The first one gives info on allergy risk - the standard information given out and widely publicised, just as any patient information document lists possible contraindications and allergy risk.

The covid vaccine ingredients listed (the 3 vaccines currently being used in the US) do not include either mercury or Thimerosal.

Therefore it is inappropriate to suggest that these vaccines are dangerous because they contain mercury (or Thimerosal).

The link that you gave about Thimerosal states clearly that
‘In July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.’
In the 22 years since then, as vaccines have been introduced (e.g. the covid vaccines) or reformulated, the Thimerosal has not been included.

Again, it is inappropriate to try to deter people from taking a covid vaccine by bringing up ancient (pre1997) information about mercury that is not used in covid vaccines.

What is mRNA? Pondering away. This isn't to deter anyone who has their mind set on Covid vaccination, it is looking at all possibilities. It is your body your choice, and if you really read my posts you would see that. One size does not fit all, your reading into anything else is your right. Everyone must do as they see fit, however, critical thinking calls for looking at all sides. If you got mercury before they banded it you might have been set-up for issues later on. I know I was born in the 60s and it was fully loaded. Could be nothing, or something. I appreciate your thoughts and wish you well.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

We all know the cause of autoimmune diseases is not known but e.g. this site diabetes.co.uk do mention vaccination as one of several possible causes for type 1 diabetes. I have seen a few other sites mentioning it. But I guess there are huge pressures to encourage vaccines and discourage the worries on vaccines at the moment

Overall Its just based on my personal feelings and worries comparing the risk and impact of getting other autoimmune conditions v getting covit.

after extensive searches I cannot find anything on diabetes.co.uk that suggests that vaccines may cause Type 1 diabetes. Please post a link.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

What is mRNA? Pondering away. This isn't to deter anyone who has their mind set on Covid vaccination, it is looking at all possibilities. It is your body your choice, and if you really read my posts you would see that. One size does not fit all, your reading into anything else is your right. Everyone must do as they see fit, however, critical thinking calls for looking at all sides. If you got mercury before they banded it you might have been set-up for issues later on. I know I was born in the 60s and it was fully loaded. Could be nothing, or something. I appreciate your thoughts and wish you well.

I suggest that you read around the use of mRNA as the basis of the vaccines in use in the UK. This stands for messenger RNA and involves the application of a relatively new technology to the production of vaccines. Having more up to date information may give you a different perspective. However, I respect your right to make an individual decision on whether or not to have the Covid vaccine.

 

[michita]

after extensive searches I cannot find anything on diabetes.co.uk that suggests that vaccines may cause Type 1 diabetes. Please post a link.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/causes-of-type1-diabetes.html

“may cause” is strong words and I didn’t say, just sometimes listed as one of possibilities for the cause

 

[Dr Snoddy]

However, I still cannot find anything on this site that suggests that.

 

[michita]

However, I still cannot find anything on this site that suggests that.

Fine... I might not see it and feel differently if I didn’t have type 1 diabetes

 

[Ushthetaff]

To be honest not really bothered what caused my diabetes , as there are so many theories, let’s face it if there was a definite reason we would be far closer to a “ cure” than what we are now . I just deal with the management now as I have it and that’s cos even if I knew I’d still have to manage it . Covid vaccination that’s a personal choice I didn’t want one but decided to so I could lead a somewhat “ normal” life . I have two auto immune disease s went went to docs he said to me you have one shouldn’t be surprised with another one ,

 

[Hopeful34]

However, I still cannot find anything on this site that suggests that.

Looking at the link you requested, it says:
Type 1 diabetes triggers
Researchers have hypothesised that whilst some people are have a genetic predisposition to type 1 diabetes, there is likely to be an environmental factor that triggers the initial development of type 1 diabetes.

Some of the possible triggers that have been suggested include:

• Viral infection
• Vaccines
• Low levels of vitamin D
• Increased insulin

Edited to add that I've had both my vaccines, and was happy to do so.

 

[StewM]

One thing I feel that link irresponsibly leaves out, which has helped to create the conversation we're now having is...

Dr Classen actually recommended taking the Vaccines EARLIER to prevent Vaccines from triggering the condition, without that context one might assume Classen was actually recommending forgoing the Vaccines entirely.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115854/

But for even more context that link says there's no conclusive proof of Classen's findings and, furthermore, studies that have attempted to corroborate his findings have failed. Or as the above link shows: “there is no evidence that any vaccines have increased the risk of type 1 diabetes in animals or humans.”

 

[michita]

One thing I feel that link irresponsibly leaves out, which has helped to create the conversation we're now having is...

Dr Classen actually recommended taking the Vaccines EARLIER to prevent Vaccines from triggering the condition, without that context one might assume Classen was actually recommending forgoing the Vaccines entirely.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115854/

But for even more context that link says there's no conclusive proof of Classen's findings and, furthermore, studies that have attempted to corroborate his findings have failed. Or as the above link shows: “there is no evidence that any vaccines have increased the risk of type 1 diabetes in animals or humans.”

Did you also read the response from dr Classen included in the link ?

 

[Oldvatr]

We all know the cause of autoimmune diseases is not known but e.g. this site diabetes.co.uk do mention vaccination as one of several possible causes for type 1 diabetes. I have seen a few other sites mentioning it. But I guess there are huge pressures to encourage vaccines and discourage the worries on vaccines at the moment

Overall Its just based on my personal feelings and worries comparing the risk and impact of getting other autoimmune conditions v getting covit.

I am having difficulty following your reasoning here. You don't want the vaccine because you fear the vague unreported possibility of an autoimmune reaction, but you have absolutely no fear of contracting Covid, which is reported everywhere to be strongly associated with triggering an autoimmune reaction that leads to severe and debilitating damage, triggered directly by that virus. You also do not fear the possibility of Long Covid, which affects many who survive the disease, but have long-term lingering problems far worse than T1D which at least is treatable. I do not understand.

There have been millions and millions of test subjects taking the vaccines, and we have evidence that hospital admissions for Covid have dropped substantially as a consequence. There has been no sign so far of an increase in DKA and subsequent T1 diagnosis corresponding to this. There is monitoring in place to pick up any trends so we are not blind. There is an unfortunate reaction to one of the vaccines that is true, and there is a risk to be considered. But the number of events is very small compared to the massive general public pool being inoculated. The large pool of test subjects means that many different co-morbidities are currently being tested, far better than a small trial study that would normally be required.

 

[Oldvatr]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/specific-groups/allergies.html
I posted it above. Also, look under VAERS (all doctors are suppose to enter all adverse reactions), subtitle: Adverse reactions, next drug company. VAERS is tricky, but the link above is CDC. Read through article above it talks about allergic reactions. Mercury is also listed as Thimerosal. Thimerosal and Vaccines | Vaccine Safety | CDC
This article talks specifically about mercury. With any vaccine, be at the doctor's office, drug-store, random pop-up vaccine sights, you have the right to ask for the pamphlet that list the ingredients of the vaccine. The mRNA is a little different, it is not clearly stated.

https://fullfact.org/online/thiomersal-mercury-vaccines/

Here is the Pfizer ingredients
//https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...n-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine#ingredients

While on the subject regarding polyethelyne glycol, see what a typical medicine contains
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/021574s020lbl.pdf

 

[Oldvatr]

Emergency use authorization, does not require testing to the same degree as FDA approved. It must be tested on animals, pregnant animals (they use ferrets, for some reason their system is comparable to ours). Also these tests are run for years (7-10 yrs) before being tested on the humans that agree to be part of the research. I hope that clarifies it. A good example of not thoroughly testing was Thalidomide, given to pregnant women in the 60s to help with morning sickness. What happened was horrible and they pulled it off the market. Thalidomide - Wikipedia

Here is another one under drug for morning sickness that was not adequately tested: Drug for 'Morning Sickness' Is Suspected in Birth Defects - The Washington Post Bendectin -- sold abroad as Debendox-- Summary: One charge is that Merrell did no premarketing animal or clinical tests of safety for the unborn, even though women in the sensitive first trimester of pregnacy were the sole sales target. "It is true that no studies were done," Merrell's former medical research director, Raymond C. Pogge, said. Pogge, who invented Bendectin, made a deposition in Casa Grande, Ariz.

In essence, the Covid vaccine was not, has not been tested adequately.

Incorrect. The Stage 1 mandatory testing is a safety test using animal subjects and ALL the covid vaccines have completed both Stage 1and Stage 2 testing. before rollout. Those tests were not skipped or shortened.

Edit to add: Thalidomide was a medicine, not a vaccine. It is still being prescribed with restricted use.

 

[oldgreymare]

Emergency use authorization, does not require testing to the same degree as FDA approved. It must be tested on animals, pregnant animals (they use ferrets, for some reason their system is comparable to ours). Also these tests are run for years (7-10 yrs) before being tested on the humans that agree to be part of the research. I hope that clarifies it. A good example of not thoroughly testing was Thalidomide, given to pregnant women in the 60s to help with morning sickness. What happened was horrible and they pulled it off the market. Thalidomide - Wikipedia

Here is another one under drug for morning sickness that was not adequately tested: Drug for 'Morning Sickness' Is Suspected in Birth Defects - The Washington Post Bendectin -- sold abroad as Debendox-- Summary: One charge is that Merrell did no premarketing animal or clinical tests of safety for the unborn, even though women in the sensitive first trimester of pregnacy were the sole sales target. "It is true that no studies were done," Merrell's former medical research director, Raymond C. Pogge, said. Pogge, who invented Bendectin, made a deposition in Casa Grande, Ariz.

In essence, the Covid vaccine was not, has not been tested adequately.

Pragmatically that is simply your personal opinion, which you are of course entitled to. But please respect others that have a different opinion regarding the pros and cons of fast tracked vaccinations for vulnerable individuals and for any individual themselves.

 

[oldgreymare]

What is mRNA? Pondering away. This isn't to deter anyone who has their mind set on Covid vaccination, it is looking at all possibilities. It is your body your choice, and if you really read my posts you would see that. One size does not fit all, your reading into anything else is your right. Everyone must do as they see fit, however, critical thinking calls for looking at all sides. If you got mercury before they banded it you might have been set-up for issues later on. I know I was born in the 60s and it was fully loaded. Could be nothing, or something. I appreciate your thoughts and wish you well.

Well, I was born in the 1950's and mRNA was both part of my then Biology A - level, plus explored in more detail with my Physiology BSc - interesting now to see new use of mRNA biochemistry for vaccines - but the extremely interesting aspects of mRNA behaviour has been studied for decades.