Nocturia

[Sooki67]

Hi all

Question for anyone with type 2 and nocturia. My overall diabetes control is good with exercise and diet [5.7 average over 6 months] BMI is 25...but I wake every night at least 4 times so as you can imagine this seriously affects my quality of sleep. I ve had all manner of tests done and the usual changes in drinking ear bedtime/no coafeine/alcohol etc etc does not work. I usually wake in the morning around 6.5 after going to bed at 5.7... No problem with urination during the day...My GP doesn't want to give me insulin medication as he says my Diabetes is under control if not reversed even, but I m willing to try a tablet if it will help with the nocturia...just wondering if anyone else here might have some advice. It's really getting desperate my energy levels during the day are terrible and effecting my drive to exercise. By the way I'm new here only joined this morning in the hope of some help. Thanks in advance.

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi all

Question for anyone with type 2 and nocturia. My overall diabetes control is good with exercise and diet [5.7 average over 6 months] BMI is 25...but I wake every night at least 4 times so as you can imagine this seriously affects my quality of sleep. I ve had all manner of tests done and the usual changes in drinking ear bedtime/no coafeine/alcohol etc etc does not work. I usually wake in the morning around 6.5 after going to bed at 5.7... No problem with urination during the day...My GP doesn't want to give me insulin medication as he says my Diabetes is under control if not reversed even, but I m willing to try a tablet if it will help with the nocturia...just wondering if anyone else here might have some advice. It's really getting desperate my energy levels during the day are terrible and effecting my drive to exercise. By the way I'm new here only joined this morning in the hope of some help. Thanks in advance.

I am a man, and so suffer the old gent's condition of an enlarged prostate, for which I take pills. This may be contributing to your problem, and it's sensible to get it checked out if you are over 50. I used to sleep right through the night without mishap. I was having the occasional night trip over the cat in the dark, but it wasn't too intrusive. But since my covid vaccination, it has gotten significantly worse and is at least 3 sleepwalks a night. The only relief I have found is that if I have a nightcap of whisky, it restores normal service and I sleep through like I used to. Not suggesting that this should be considered a cure but it seems to be light relief on occasions. Apart from getting a catheter fitted, I have no knowledge of any pills or supplements

 

[optimist1]

Sleep apnea can be a cause of this and may be worth asking the doctor about. It's a sleep test at home or a clinic. T2 diabetics have a high rate of sleep apnea.

https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/46/suppl_59/PA2380#:~:text=Background: Nocturia (two or more,are responsible for nocturnal urination.

 

[Mr_Pot]

By the age of 60 half of all men will have an enlarged prostate so that is something to consider. Maybe you normally go often enough during the day for it not to be noticeable.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi all

Question for anyone with type 2 and nocturia. My overall diabetes control is good with exercise and diet [5.7 average over 6 months] BMI is 25...but I wake every night at least 4 times so as you can imagine this seriously affects my quality of sleep. I ve had all manner of tests done and the usual changes in drinking ear bedtime/no coafeine/alcohol etc etc does not work. I usually wake in the morning around 6.5 after going to bed at 5.7... No problem with urination during the day...My GP doesn't want to give me insulin medication as he says my Diabetes is under control if not reversed even, but I m willing to try a tablet if it will help with the nocturia...just wondering if anyone else here might have some advice. It's really getting desperate my energy levels during the day are terrible and effecting my drive to exercise. By the way I'm new here only joined this morning in the hope of some help. Thanks in advance.

I'm taking a pill that I'm supposed to take once a day, in the evening as I ave breakfast, for my prostate. The instructions are nuts, but the stuff does work when it comes to bladder issues, even if I don't have a prostrate to contend with but rather, kidney stones. (And I don't have breakfast in the evening). Tamsulosin or something? Might want to enquire after that one.

 

[muzza3]

It's really getting desperate my energy levels during the day are terrible and effecting my drive to exercise

I agree with @optimist1 that it would be well worth testing for sleep apnea as the daytime energy levels are a real symptom of it.

 

[Oldvatr]

I do not think my problem is OSA since when I awake in the night, I certainly need a wee, and I seem to be carrying a full tank so my sessions are fully productive. I seem to produce more output at night but it is not diabetes since my levels are usually quite low when I retire. I think my body is just so knackered by life that my autophagy teams are working overtime to repair the damage.

 

[Oldvatr]

I do not think my problem is OSA since when I awake in the night, I certainly need a wee, and I seem to be carrying a full tank so my sessions are fully productive. I seem to produce more output at night but it is not diabetes since my levels are usually quite low when I retire. I think my body is just so knackered by life that my autophagy teams are working overtime to repair the damage.

Following on this saga, I think this is what is behind my problem - ANP
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/otherendo/anp.html

One thing I do at bedtime is taking my heart meds. One of these is a special BP lowering med for those with heart problems, and this is hyperkalemic which it does by ejecting sodium and water from the blood. It clocks on at bedtime and does a night shift - hence the wee wee wee all the way to de loo. The other heart med is an ARB which does the same sort of shenanigans, ERGO, shift these meds into the am pots in the mediwallets, and see if I improve matters. No wonder I am dehydrated in the mornings. And also explains why my sodium level was low in my latest checkup, and why my doc wanted a second blood test to confirm. But its not sleep apnoea in the classic sense of obstructed airway,

 

[Struma]

It might just be idiopathic nocturia.
Passing more urine, overnight in volume then during the day, seems to be a natural occurrence for some men.
But it is wise to correlate volume with frequency. Prostate problems typically increases frequency whilst decreasing amount.

 

[Oldvatr]

It might just be idiopathic nocturia.
Passing more urine, overnight in volume then during the day, seems to be a natural occurrence for some men.
But it is wise to correlate volume with frequency. Prostate problems typically increases frequency whilst decreasing amount.

Prostate typically acts like a tourniquet on the urethra, so you do not actually empty the tank even though it may feel like it at the time, so it fills up again quickly. The urgent feeling you get is really a pressing engagement and it is that which wakes
you up. The amount is still there, but it didn't make it past the front door.

The night time is a time of rest and repair. If you research autophagy then this is the process by which our bodies use this downtime to repair damaged cells in the body. The debris that creates goes into making urea, which has to be got rid of in time-honoured tradition. The urea comes mainly from proteins and muscle tissue.

In my case, my heart meds seem to be boosting an enzyme called ANP which is a peptide generated by the heart. It is apparently designed to do this, hence I get more activity than I was used to. I will see how I get on after I change my timings for these meds.

 

[Oldvatr]

Day one after moving my heart meds timing (technically, the first night after) and the omens are looking encouraging. Only one enforced trek. That was probably because I ate a whole choccy bar at bedtime so that could well be normal diabetic excretion of excess glucose following a high. Better still, my congestive heart symptoms were much less than they have been recently, and that could simply be due to not losing so much sodium in the night, I have recently had low sodium (hyponatremia) and suspect the medication of being related to it since it was recently doubled. May need to raise a yellow card on it since it is not a listed side effect. However, both of those pills are linked to hyperkalemia, which is the other side of the coin.

 

[Oldvatr]

Day one after moving my heart meds timing (technically, the first night after) and the omens are looking encouraging. Only one enforced trek. That was probably because I ate a whole choccy bar at bedtime so that could well be normal diabetic excretion of excess glucose following a high. Better still, my congestive heart symptoms were much less than they have been recently, and that could simply be due to not losing so much sodium in the night, I have recently had low sodium (hyponatremia) and suspect the medication of being related to it since it was recently doubled. May need to raise a yellow card on it since it is not a listed side effect. However, both of those pills are linked to hyperkalemia, which is the other side of the coin.

Update. Just found a report that one of my two heart meds is directly associated with hyponatremia by increasing excretion in the urine. I was guessing earlier, but now I have a definite answer to my nocturia AND my disappearing sodium levels. I will be able to sleep soundly again YEAH!!!!!! Way to go! I would be tempted to say wee wee wee all the way home, but I won't.

 

[Sooki67]

I am a man, and so suffer the old gent's condition of an enlarged prostate, for which I take pills. This may be contributing to your problem, and it's sensible to get it checked out if you are over 50. I used to sleep right through the night without mishap. I was having the occasional night trip over the cat in the dark, but it wasn't too intrusive. But since my covid vaccination, it has gotten significantly worse and is at least 3 sleepwalks a night. The only relief I have found is that if I have a nightcap of whisky, it restores normal service and I sleep through like I used to. Not suggesting that this should be considered a cure but it seems to be light relief on occasions. Apart from getting a catheter fitted, I have no knowledge of any pills or supplements

Thanks so much for your reply...doesn t seem to be prostrate as I ve had physical check and numbers are good. Any alcohol unless its 5 or 6 beers makes it worse. I ve Im slightly drunk going to bed I manage about 5 hours before my first pee.

 

[Languagelearner]

Thanks so much for your reply...doesn t seem to be prostrate as I ve had physical check and numbers are good. Any alcohol unless its 5 or 6 beers makes it worse. I ve Im slightly drunk going to bed I manage about 5 hours before my first pee.

Sooki, see my post about constantly urinating small drops throughout the night at https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/is-urinating-small-amounts-a-symptom.171995/#post-2416201

 

[Sooki67]

Thank you , only spotted your reply now much appreciated. Just wondering have you had any luck. It's such a difficult thing to try to enjoy life when your sleep is disrupted, and like you said I really don't feel the doctors specialists Ive spoken to have any answers..

 

[Mevf]

I had the problem for several years...waking to pee at least 3 times overnight. I was diagnosed with serious sleep apnea when in REM. I started using a CPAP and I have not waked needing to pee since. It was an overnight change.