Newly diagnosed with very high numbers - confused by symptoms

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
5,937
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Try eating brown rice when you feel like having it, and portion control, I was taught in the diabetes classes, half your plate should be healthy vegetables, and one part meat( chicken, pork, steak) be the size of the top of your fist. And one part healthy fats, replace your potatoe with mashed cauliflower, or sweet potatoe, with a bit of butter and bacon on top. Also limit you salt. Drink water it keeps your kidneys healthy, tea with a little Splenda( artificial sugar, and low fat milk 1% or skim, coffee but be careful what you put in it. I am from Canada and every country is different but I lost weight and reversed my diabetes type 2, yes I do cheat from time to time, this journey your on is going to be complex, until you find what works for you, do you go for A1c’s that’s were you get a blood test every 3 months to see your average over 3 months. Did your doctor tell you that it’s type 2 ? You really need to know if it’s Type 1 or Type 2 because if it’s Type1 it’s a different treatment, you will need insulin. Have you talked on the phone with a Diabetic teacher, your hospital should have this available for you.
HI @Kimble73 ,

...That's.... A lot of carbs. More than I can get away with. And here in the Netherlands, the advice I got was wholewheat, brown everything, fruit, sweet potatoes, etc, etc, just like you were advised... That still spiked me something awful. I actually followed a Canadian doctor's advice, haha. (Dr. Jason Fung, Uni of Toronto). Really, we're all different. This worked for you, it wouldn't work for me. The OP (with a very high HbA1c) will find out with their meter what works for them and what doesn't, or as some would say "can get away with" as the bulk of us have. But do enjoy that sweet potato for me, I rather miss it!
:)
Jo
 
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jjne

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I can see both sides to this to be honest. I was trying to balance the carb thing but, on the face of it that isn't really working for me, or doesn't seem to be.

I dunno, the NHS in their literature seems to emphasise the need for some carbs, and my practitioning nurse who gave me "the talk" stated that all foods are converted to sugar not just carbs. The issue for me of course is trying to work through conflicting information.

Very few carbs in 24 hours and blood glucose down more than two points.

I am going to give this a week or two at least, and see if it comes down and stays down. I can certainly see the logic of not taking in carbs, forcing the body to dig into its reserves etc. And of course if there's nothing going in then nothing comes out, simple chemistry. Ultimately though I need *some* sources of sugar though, right?

It is confusing but the pressing need that I can see just now is getting the numbers down. I can cross other bridges that might result from this course of action when I come to them. Clearly people are thriving long-term with this diet so it must be doing something right.
 

jjne

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Just one other thing - my blood sugar meter. I bought an Amazon special (Sinocare Safe AQ). The numbers it gives do seem to be relatively sensible for my condition but is it generally an "OK" device, or do I need to sling it and get myself down to Boots? It wasn't overly cheap for what it is.
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I can see both sides to this to be honest. I was trying to balance the carb thing but, on the face of it that isn't really working for me, or doesn't seem to be.

I dunno, the NHS in their literature seems to emphasise the need for some carbs, and my practitioning nurse who gave me "the talk" stated that all foods are converted to sugar not just carbs. The issue for me of course is trying to work through conflicting information.

Very few carbs in 24 hours and blood glucose down more than two points.

I am going to give this a week or two at least, and see if it comes down and stays down. I can certainly see the logic of not taking in carbs, forcing the body to dig into its reserves etc. And of course if there's nothing going in then nothing comes out, simple chemistry. Ultimately though I need *some* sources of sugar though, right?

It is confusing but the pressing need that I can see just now is getting the numbers down. I can cross other bridges that might result from this course of action when I come to them. Clearly people are thriving long-term with this diet so it must be doing something right.
What is the other side? I genuinely have never found anything that shows we categorically need any source of sugar. Much of the nhs info is simply outdated. They do however also support low carb and even have an education package approved for their staff (if they choose to take it)
 
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Kimble73

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Cutting the carbs you did was obviously enough for you and your diabetes, but some of that advice wasn’t quite accurate. Brown rice is still carbs and that will raise your bgl. Splenda is mixed with maltodextrin which also raises bgl. Sweet potatoes have almost as many carbs as white ones. Limiting salt is not necessary for diabetes unless you have complications or other conditions. Nor is using skim milk as it is a healthy fat. Doesn’t matter what country you are forum the disease is the same. Just the advice varies.
Limiting salt is important to prevent heart disease, and blood pressure issues. I was told this in the class, not to cut it out completely, just don’t add it to all your food, I have some salt on my roast beef, as an example. With brown rice have it once in a while, in portion. You can have sweet potatoes in moderation, like half of one. And I was just saying that I was from Canada and some counties have different ideas,,

[mod edit.]
 
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Kimble73

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Just one other thing - my blood sugar meter. I bought an Amazon special (Sinocare Safe AQ). The numbers it gives do seem to be relatively sensible for my condition but is it generally an "OK" device, or do I need to sling it and get myself down to Boots? It wasn't overly cheap for what it is.
I got my first meter from my diabetic class, then I got my second one from a pharmacy, the meter is free and you pay for your lancets and strips. I really recommend going to Diabetes classes through your local hospital, they teach you everything when your new to Diabetes. With Covid they probably can give you info over the phone it’s all free. Like I said I’m from Canada, and I went to classes when I was first diagnosed. Or talk to your doctor to with any questions relating to your diabetes.
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I got my first meter from my diabetic class, then I got my second one from a pharmacy, the meter is free and you pay for your lancets and strips. I really recommend going to Diabetes classes through your local hospital, they teach you everything when your new to Diabetes. With Covid they probably can give you info over the phone it’s all free. Like I said I’m from Canada, and I went to classes when I was first diagnosed. Or talk to your doctor to with any questions relating to your diabetes.
Yep different countries, different areas, different drs even have different ideas. That is why you need to find what works for you.

The nhs here in the U.K. teach similar to what you were taught. It simply doesn’t help a lot of type 2 by anything like enough depending on our starting point and degree of “diabeticness”. It might still be an improvement for others. We in here are the lucky few that find our own way if that’s the case (supported by other more progressive expert drs, their teachings and other publications and studies) rather than go down the progressively worsening path many of those same drs that teach the official line expect us to.
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Limiting salt is important to prevent heart disease, and blood pressure issues. I was told this in the class, not to cut it out completely, just don’t add it to all your food, I have some salt on my roast beef, as an example. With brown rice have it once in a while, in portion. You can have sweet potatoes in moderation, like half of one. And I was just saying that I was from Canada and some counties have different ideas,,

[mod edit.]
The fewer cars we eat and the less processed food the more salt we need to keep our bodies healthy. It is also known that salt affecting blood pressure depends on whether we are salt sensitive or not. Of course we don't know if we are salt sensitive. I believe I am not because I add salt to my food but have never had high blood pressure and my heart is healthy.

Yes different countries vary in what they advise (but not by much) but diabetes is the same wherever we live. Sweet potato may be fine for some but not for others. Our reactions to foods are different. This is why we need meters to show us what we can or cannot manage.
 

Rog

Well-Known Member
Messages
248
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Hello everyone,

I was diagnosed as diabetic as a result of an eye test. My vision was fluctuating and after a retinal scan I was referred to the eye hospital. I'm currently going though that process.

I went for testing and it came back with an HBA1C of 114 :( It was so high that the GP has referred me to get a CT scan as they're not entirely sure what the cause is.

Now here's the thing ... I never had any severe symptoms. At least, not while I wasn't aware of the problem. No undue thirst, no nausea, no drowsiness (my body clock has always been problematic, as if it works to a 22 hour day where I wake up later and later unless I keep things in rigid control, but I've been like that for decades).

Unfortunately I'm getting the symptoms now. I bought a blood glucose meter about a month ago. My first reading was about 16, I immediately started exercising more, working up to walking about a mile or two a day now, and immediately cutting out as much carbs (and especially sugar) from my diet such that I take a maximum of 100g per day. The doctor prescribed Metformin, 500mg at first, working to 2000mg after three weeks.

Things seemed to be working at first. My "fasting" prick-test result went down to about 11. But as I took the second Metformin tablet I suffered a crash of some sorts. I had nausea, heart palpitations overnight, a feeling of numbness - as if blood wasn't circulating right. Went to A&E at 2am one morning, stayed there for three hours, no fault found, sent home.

I continued to feel awful for another day, so I decided to stop the Metformin for 24 hours (this was a weekend) to see what would happen. Felt much better and the blood numbers stayed low.

I called the GP on the Monday and the consensus was that I felt better *despite*, rather than because of, coming off the tablets. Was basically ordered to go back on the Metformin, and went back to two on the Thursday.

I haven't suffered a repeat of the problems I had since, but my blood glucose levels stopped falling and are now right back where they were -- between 12 or 15 after fasting overnight. This is despite continuing to cut the carbs, take the tablets, exercise more and I've also lost nearly a stone in six weeks.

I'm really confused as to what I'm doing wrong. Surely there should be some positive effect to have come out of the last few weeks?

Am I just being impatient? Should I storm into the GP's surgery and demand stronger meds, or insulin? TBH I'm at the point of despair at this stage.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Wellcome JJNE - I was in your shoes almost exactly over 6 years ago and this board sorted me out . Get on the hflc diet , plenty of walking and you’ll be delighted .
 
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Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
On a low carb diet some salt is needed, particularly in hot weather, or there is the distinct possibility of really painful cramps.
I don't use salt in cooking, boil bacon to remove the preservatives, so I have to remember to put a small pinch of salt in my morning coffee most months of the year.
I need to be quite low carb, but find that I can have mushrooms and a stir fry with breakfast, or a big salad, and still have a fairly substantial evening meal.
I don't need to eat in between, my drink is either water or coffee with cream. I do sometimes have tea, either a berry mixture or a mix of mint and liquorice, either hot or cod depending on the season.
These days I'd have walked out if anyone had told me that all food is converted to sugar. Firstly it isn't true and secondly at my age I don't feel like wasting my time.
 

Rog

Well-Known Member
Messages
248
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
That is very interesting.

I have clearly been approaching this all wrong. While I don't feel hungry, much of what I've cut out is precisely what this actually recommends I eat more of!

The diet I've put myself on has certainly worked in the sense that I have lost a stack of weight. But OK the spuds and the bread goes (I was told to eat these in moderation which is precisely what I have attempted to do).

Ironically the takeaways I've had in the past (chicken tikka madras, thai curries and the infamous chicken parmo which is a local "delicacy" in Durham) are closer to what is on that list than what I've reduced myself to (and although I am not sure about going back to that, it would seem that a curry on Saturday night is fine as long as I find an alternative to the rice).

So essentially this is what amounts to the Atkins/Dukan diet in some respects -- cut out the carbs completely (and in particular get rid of rice, spuds and wheat) and eat meat/dairy, fatty/high protein stuff instead? (OK I know this is a flippant response but I feel like a cage has just been removed from around me). This is the stuff that I liked and that I got rid of...

I need to look into this in a lot more detail. I was under the impression that carb-free was a miserable existence but the stuff that I need to get rid of is predominantly the filler -- replace this with healthier vegetables. I can do that.
jjne
Breakfast
Avocado one oatcake
Lunch
Two boiled eggs
5pm
Two total full fat
Two oatcakes and cheese
dinner
Sea bass or salmon with broccoli / spinach
Evening snack
2 oatcakes and cheese
This diet is hard for 10 days or so then your off to a new life of a T2 or maybe a T1 ( not sure )
 

jjne

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76
Thanks once again for the comments.

I have to say that as a layman, but a layman with a scientific background, the comments about all foods converting to sugar didn't sit well with me, but I'm not the expert :) I mean they're fundamentally different molecules, and I think it takes more energy to convert fats to carbs than you'd get out of them anyway.

I am trying a (near as damnit) complete "keto" diet for a week to see what it does to my blood sugar levels. I'm not going to continually test myself because (1) if no sugar is going in I don't see the point, it's not going to spike right? and (2) I've run out of the strips and won't be getting more for a few days!

I'm going to get some fish, meat, berries etc for the next week. I go on 3xMetformin as well as of today so perhaps that will also contribute.
 
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jjne

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And it's working. After only a few days my blood sugars are down to 9 and falling / not rising significantly after meals - and this is despite having a tandoori mixed grill and a third of a portion of chicken madras from the local takeaway at the weekend (rice avoided!

Still some way to go but steady (and quite quick) progress. Continuing to lose weight too :joyful:

I'm so pleased I joined this site, and cannot adequately enough express my gratitude for the advice given - thankyou!
 
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Kimble73

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
And it's working. After only a few days my blood sugars are down to 9 and falling / not rising significantly after meals - and this is despite having a tandoori mixed grill and a third of a portion of chicken madras from the local takeaway at the weekend (rice avoided!

Still some way to go but steady (and quite quick) progress. Continuing to lose weight too :joyful:

I'm so pleased I joined this site, and cannot adequately enough express my gratitude for the advice given - thankyou!
That’s so good to hear that your sugars are coming down, I’m happy for you.
 
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jjne

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76
I seem to be hitting the same issue I did the other week, where the numbers hit a certain threshold then refuse to go down further.

Last night I was 10.1 after a carb-free meal. Excellent I thought, not spiking this is good.

However, this morning I was still at 9.8. And after testing myself again today, after eating absolutely nothing, it went from 9.8 to 9.7 and now 9.6.

Is this right? It almost seems as if my body "wants" to be at this figure and is failing to produce any insulin to get the number down, despite it still being high. I found this previously without metformin where it would stabilise at about 11.5 or so.

Should I inform the doctor about this? Or is this some sort of normal body reaction to being starved of carbs and burning up reserves?

I should point out I am not hungry and do not have cravings. I've had probably a total of 20g of carbs since last Wednesday, plus whatever that (almost totally meat) takeaway had in it on Saturday (which did not spike me either).

This could be a duff glucose meter, although I have my doubts. I've bought another one to be sure, just in case. I did change to a new batch of strips, direct from the manufacturer the other day.
 

Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Your liver will release glucose into your bloodstream if you don't eat - so you can run around to find some food. It is a perfectly normal reaction.
I eat every 12 hours, usually and find that not eating when I get up makes for higher blood glucose levels.
 

jjne

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Right, tuna salad it is then!

Let's see what happens.

Naive me thought the pancreas would just work if it sensed sugar in blood, at any time of the day.

Thanks for the reply! I will make sure I eat first thing in future. I had thought that the longer one fasted the better, but clearly that doesn't work, for me anyway.

So it's normal for the pancreas to essentially sit around and not release insulin during the day if a person does not eat? As that seems to be the implication here.
 
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MrsA2

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5,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
If only it were that simple.
Insulin production, and the resulting blood glucose, can be affected by
Sleep, or lack of it
Exercise, or lack of it
Stress, or lack of it
Medications
Temperature
Food, or lack of it

(There maybe more too)

Carbs is the worst offender but I have days when fasting when bg has peaked due to extreme stress and lack of sleep
 

jjne

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76
I accept that, and I get what you are saying.

But flatlining? Repeatedly? A perfect storm of stress, lack of sleep and the wrong food that results in... no change whatsoever?

There's a rabbit out here I'm sure of it.
 

jjne

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76
Oh, and two hours after a tuna salad, lettuce, tomato, tuna, olive oil, bit of Hellmans mayo... 9.8. No change lol.

I'm sure this blood glucose monitor is talking out of its eject button, I really am.