Feeling sad and confused and anxious

[HurricaneHippo]

Hi @HurricaneHippo are you testing your bloods regularly? I think regular testing is very important. The HbA1Cis an average. It is important to find out what your levels are so you can make decisions about whether you are able to control it by diet or whether you need something more. I use metformin and while my levels are now well within the normal range I plan to continue taking it. I don't have any side effects so no reason not to. If I change my mind I will be very careful about testing regularly.

There is no shame at all in taking medication. The real shame- in my view is refusing to deal with it at all. There are some serious side effects that can result from not taking diabetes seriously.

We all need to make the best decisions that we can. We are all different in many ways but what we have in common is the desire to deal with our condition and to support those here who are also dealing with it. It doesn't matter how.

There is a lot of shame and judgement around from being a diabetic. In my view it is unhelpful. That includes judging yourself. Be kind to yourself as well as others.

Thank you for the kind and uplifting message. So, I haven’t really done much testing yet, only after lunch and dinner. But yes, absolutely, I need to start so I know what’s going on with my sugars.

 

[HurricaneHippo]

I found this chart a while back, not sure how accurate it is but gave me a better idea of where i was at with a 87

My goal is to get it into the low 30's

thank you for sharing, this chart has been the easiest to make sense of!

 

[HSSS]

Many of the online charts are incorrect, I believe this one is more accurate

Btw 8.5% is not too far gone, we've had many members here with much higher who managed to get back to non-diabetic levels

This chart converts hba1c (a 12 weeks measure of glucose exposure) to the equivalent average blood sugar (fingerprick) readings. But fingerprick readings are not a flat even line and will consist of constantly changing numbers throughout each and every day so it’s a bit of a false equivalence.

I also believe the op was asking “how diabetic” his score was in range of ideal, to normal, to prediabetic, to just diagnosable to seriously worrying high levels etc rather than the point you make. (I could be wrong).

@HurricaneHippo 8.5% dcct is the same as 69mmol/mol (same score different measurement units). https://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-units-converter.html

Diagnosis starts at 48mmol. People can see scores over 100. Many with similar (60 and 70’s) or even higher levels go on to achieve amazing results on diet and lifestyle changes alone without any medication. Others add metformin permanently or for a while and then drop it. It’s by no means a level that absolutely requires medication if you prefer to take other steps. (Which you should anyway even if you take the medication too).

 

[coby]

This chart converts hba1c (a 12 weeks measure of glucose exposure) to the equivalent average blood sugar (fingerprick) readings. But fingerprick readings are not a flat even line and will consist of constantly changing numbers throughout each and every day so it’s a bit of a false equivalence.

I also believe the op was asking “how diabetic” his score was in range of ideal, to normal, to prediabetic, to just diagnosable to seriously worrying high levels etc rather than the point you make. (I could be wrong).

@HurricaneHippo 8.5% dcct is the same as 69mmol/mol (same score different measurement units). https://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-units-converter.html

Diagnosis starts at 48mmol. People can see scores over 100. Many with similar (60 and 70’s) or even higher levels go on to achieve amazing results on diet and lifestyle changes alone without any medication. Others add metformin permanently or for a while and then drop it. It’s by no means a level that absolutely requires medication if you prefer to take other steps. (Which you should anyway even if you take the medication too).

I envy people who can understand all these graphs. My maths was always my worst subject. So, if my finger prick tests have all been under 7 (I've only tested for three weeks so far) does it mean that my hba1c will be low now?

 

[HurricaneHippo]

This chart converts hba1c (a 12 weeks measure of glucose exposure) to the equivalent average blood sugar (fingerprick) readings. But fingerprick readings are not a flat even line and will consist of constantly changing numbers throughout each and every day so it’s a bit of a false equivalence.

I also believe the op was asking “how diabetic” his score was in range of ideal, to normal, to prediabetic, to just diagnosable to seriously worrying high levels etc rather than the point you make. (I could be wrong).

@HurricaneHippo 8.5% dcct is the same as 69mmol/mol (same score different measurement units). https://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-units-converter.html

Diagnosis starts at 48mmol. People can see scores over 100. Many with similar (60 and 70’s) or even higher levels go on to achieve amazing results on diet and lifestyle changes alone without any medication. Others add metformin permanently or for a while and then drop it. It’s by no means a level that absolutely requires medication if you prefer to take other steps. (Which you should anyway even if you take the medication too).

“I also believe the op was asking “how diabetic” his score was in range of ideal, to normal, to prediabetic, to just diagnosable to seriously worrying high levels etc rather than the point you make. (I could be wrong). ”

yes absolutely this, I guess the GP scared me a bit so I wondered how bad he was stating I was. I assume the GP sees so many patients who say they’ll change their lifestyle and they never do, so he has to be stern with everyone who first gets diagnosed and comes through his door. So I don’t really blame him either. The GP’s doom and death, and organ failure discussion just freaked me out a bit. I know he was only trying to help

thank you for the info

 

[HSSS]

I envy people who can understand all these graphs. My maths was always my worst subject. So, if my finger prick tests have all been under 7 (I've only tested for three weeks so far) does it mean that my hba1c will be low now?

If you’ve done enough pricks then it’s a great sign that your hba1c will be improved. The only fly in the ointment is that as levels constantly change depending on food, activity, sleep, stress, illness etc then the average is only as good as the readings used to make it. So if you only ever test at the higher points you’d get a misleading higher average and a pleasant surprise at hba1c. Same with if you only ever test before meals for example and get only your lowest levels recorded the average would look falsely low until the hba1c shock that also takes into account the highs you miss. So a well balanced range of testing to capture a fair representation of high and low points is the most accurate average .

The chart @ultradad posted was a good one, just make sure you are checking the right “test” for its colour and position. It gets easily confused with different units and similar numbers across various tests.

 

[HSSS]

“I also believe the op was asking “how diabetic” his score was in range of ideal, to normal, to prediabetic, to just diagnosable to seriously worrying high levels etc rather than the point you make. (I could be wrong). ”

yes absolutely this, I guess the GP scared me a bit so I wondered how bad he was stating I was. I assume the GP sees so many patients who say they’ll change their lifestyle and they never do, so he has to be stern with everyone who first gets diagnosed and comes through his door. So I don’t really blame him either. The GP’s doom and death, and organ failure discussion just freaked me out a bit. I know he was only trying to help

thank you for the info

Making you take it seriously is one thing. Offering only one option and only doom is another. He might see lots of empty promises and plans so I get his sceptism but he’s hardly doing much to encourage better outcomes if all he does is reach for the prescription pad. You’ve done it once before you can do it again.

 

[HurricaneHippo]

Making you take it seriously is one thing. Offering only one option and only doom is another. He might see lots of empty promises and plans so I get his sceptism but he’s hardly doing much to encourage better outcomes if all he does is reach for the prescription pad. You’ve done it once before you can do it again.

Oh thank you so much that’s ever so kind!

 

[allwritemel]

Hi everyone new here

I was given by HbA1c results today and it was 8.7. But 8.7 what? What’s the metric please? I’m so confused
2 years ago I was diagnosed with diabetes (don’t remember the reading) and put on metformin. I was foolish and refused to take it and wanted to come back in 3 months and show the GP that I can bring it back to prediabetic readings on exercise and diet alone and I did. I kept this up for 2 years but the pandemic and poor food choices have got the better of me this time. I want to do it again this time but the doctor thinks 8.7 is too far gone and I won’t be able to reverse it this time! Is there a chart that shows how bad my readings are please? Is there no way of controlling it again? Is that true?
Thanks for reading

I'm so sorry! I do understand. While I can't help, I do want to let you know you are in my thoughts. I have been having trouble with my HbA1c (it started in the 100s before I changed to a new team ... now it's 75! After less than a year! I'm having a problem at the moment but it's been fantastic up to now. My sugar refuses to stay up and the doctor suspects my body is being contrary (no surprise there) and is lowering the glucose. She said she's seen it before ... but I'm curious to know what my next HbA1c will be ...all I'm trying (badly) to say - it's NEVER to late to reverse it again. Why not do what I did and ask for a continuous blood glucose monitor. It's fantastic and even tells you your estimated HbA1c (which is uncannily accurate - a lady I now was told hers and it was only 1 point out! Oh brother! i've over compensated. I felt bad before ... now I feel ten times worse. I need sleep though! I just wanted to let you know you will be in my thoughts and prayers. Sorry, probably the most useless post ever!

 

[allwritemel]

Making you take it seriously is one thing. Offering only one option and only doom is another. He might see lots of empty promises and plans so I get his sceptism but he’s hardly doing much to encourage better outcomes if all he does is reach for the prescription pad. You’ve done it once before you can do it again.

How I wish you could put a thumbs up or something on this site. I'm losing my sight (long story but nothing to do with diabetes) so I may be missing something.

 

[HurricaneHippo]

I'm so sorry! I do understand. While I can't help, I do want to let you know you are in my thoughts. I have been having trouble with my HbA1c (it started in the 100s before I changed to a new team ... now it's 75! After less than a year! I'm having a problem at the moment but it's been fantastic up to now. My sugar refuses to stay up and the doctor suspects my body is being contrary (no surprise there) and is lowering the glucose. She said she's seen it before ... but I'm curious to know what my next HbA1c will be ...all I'm trying (badly) to say - it's NEVER to late to reverse it again. Why not do what I did and ask for a continuous blood glucose monitor. It's fantastic and even tells you your estimated HbA1c (which is uncannily accurate - a lady I now was told hers and it was only 1 point out! Oh brother! i've over compensated. I felt bad before ... now I feel ten times worse. I need sleep though! I just wanted to let you know you will be in my thoughts and prayers. Sorry, probably the most useless post ever!

Not a useless post at all, thanks so much. You’re so very kind and I really hope things work out for you quickly. And thank you for the continuous measurement idea!

 

[jjne]

I envy people who can understand all these graphs. My maths was always my worst subject. So, if my finger prick tests have all been under 7 (I've only tested for three weeks so far) does it mean that my hba1c will be low now?

If the numbers are truly averaging 7 then you should (after this average remains for a few months) get an A1c below diabetic level.

But it all depends on whether your readings are a true average (which could be subject to your own confirmation bias depending on when and how often you test), whether your meter is under-reading (which I am led to believe is possible, even on the "good" meters, if your HCT is out of whack) etc.

I've found that these meters are extremely noisy in terms of the results they give, and two samples from the same drop of blood, on the same meter can give results that differ by several points. So averages are all that matters.

They're +/-20% to be compliant, over 5.6mmol/l according to the ISO standard. So a true 7 can read anywhere between 5.6 and 8.4 (although standard deviation should be much narrower than this) . Such variation renders individual tests worthless, and you have to look at the mean over time.

 

[coby]

If the numbers are truly averaging 7 then you should (after this average remains for a few months) get an A1c below diabetic level.

But it all depends on whether your readings are a true average (which could be subject to your own confirmation bias depending on when and how often you test), whether your meter is under-reading (which I am led to believe is possible, even on the "good" meters, if your HCT is out of whack) etc.

I've found that these meters are extremely noisy in terms of the results they give, and two samples from the same drop of blood, on the same meter can give results that differ by several points. So averages are all that matters.

They're +/-20% to be compliant, over 5.6mmol/l according to the ISO standard. So a true 7 can read anywhere between 5.6 and 8.4 (although standard deviation should be much narrower than this) . Such variation renders individual tests worthless, and you have to look at the mean over time.

jjne now you have me worried, because, for the first time (my reading before breakfast today) I got a result of 7.1. I was so taken aback that I immediately took a second reading which is 6.4. All of my 'before breakfast' ones have been between 5.6 and 6.7 so far and now I don't know if I can trust my meter

 

[HSSS]

jjne now you have me worried, because, for the first time (my reading before breakfast today) I got a result of 7.1. I was so taken aback that I immediately took a second reading which is 6.4. All of my 'before breakfast' ones have been between 5.6 and 6.7 so far and now I don't know if I can trust my meter

No meter is 100% spot on every time. They all have a tolerance. And will vary reading to reading and meter to meter. You need to see it as best around a 7 or closer to a 6 etc. Decimal places are a bit pointless to stress over. This is why trends and averages are more important than specific numbers. Don’t forget they are accurate enough for an insulin user to dose themselves with a potentially lethal drug using these meters. I’m sure they are accurate enough for us non insulin users to see an upward or downward trend or a bit drop or big spike (several mmol for example)

did you sleep badly! Worrying about something, eat something different or exercise differently yesterday? A single minimally higher reading is nothing to panic over.

 

[coby]

No meter is 100% spot on every time. They all have a tolerance. And will vary reading to reading and meter to meter. You need to see it as best around a 7 or closer to a 6 etc. Decimal places are a bit pointless to stress over. This is why trends and averages are more important than specific numbers. Don’t forget they are accurate enough for an insulin user to dose themselves with a potentially lethal drug using these meters. I’m sure they are accurate enough for us non insulin users to see an upward or downward trend or a bit drop or big spike (several mmol for example)

did you sleep badly! Worrying about something, eat something different or exercise differently yesterday? A single minimally higher reading is nothing to panic over.

HSSS, Everything was the same as usual. Not eaten since 4pm previous day, slept 7 hours .. all normal for me. The reading two hours 'after' breakfast was 7.1 so now I am convinced that it was an error with the machine but it's made me feel that I need to do two tests everytime to see the difference

 

[Andydragon]

If the numbers are truly averaging 7 then you should (after this average remains for a few months) get an A1c below diabetic level.

But it all depends on whether your readings are a true average (which could be subject to your own confirmation bias depending on when and how often you test), whether your meter is under-reading (which I am led to believe is possible, even on the "good" meters, if your HCT is out of whack) etc.

I've found that these meters are extremely noisy in terms of the results they give, and two samples from the same drop of blood, on the same meter can give results that differ by several points. So averages are all that matters.

They're +/-20% to be compliant, over 5.6mmol/l according to the ISO standard. So a true 7 can read anywhere between 5.6 and 8.4 (although standard deviation should be much narrower than this) . Such variation renders individual tests worthless, and you have to look at the mean over time.

Should be 15% accuracy now, 20 is an older standard

My meter is averaging between 5.9 and 6.1 over the last 30 days, and my previous meter was similar levels. I test fasting, before and after some meals

This in theory equates to a hba1c of approx 36

What my hba1c actually was is 39 which is an average of 6.5 which actually isn't too far off. But given it's very specific points in time, it's not surprising you cannot correlate in much accuracy, add in the margins of error and it's really not something that I think can give a fair representation

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose-meters/blood-glucose-meter-accuracy.html

@coby if you have washed your hands prior to test, 2nd test shouldn’t really be needed. The only times I have found significant variance is if I’ve forgotten to wash my hands

sometimes higher castings happen. It can be random, heat, stress, bad nights sleep, fatty/carbs foods will always do it for me well past 2 hour post prandial. Even occasional dawn phenomenon. If I wake up and then get an extra hours kip then that can do it too

Easier, said than done, but a one off exception will get lost in the averages. I have rare 10s (2 hour after food, I’m sure I get that high pre 2 hour after eating) and I still have hba1c of 39. I don’t set out to get peaks that high but I just accept it can happen

 

[coby]

Should be 15% accuracy now, 20 is an older standard

My meter is averaging between 5.9 and 6.1 over the last 30 days, and my previous meter was similar levels. I test fasting, before and after some meals

This in theory equates to a hba1c of approx 36

What my hba1c actually was is 39 which is an average of 6.5 which actually isn't too far off. But given it's very specific points in time, it's not surprising you cannot correlate in much accuracy, add in the margins of error and it's really not something that I think can give a fair representation

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose-meters/blood-glucose-meter-accuracy.html

@coby if you have washed your hands prior to test, 2nd test shouldn’t really be needed. The only times I have found significant variance is if I’ve forgotten to wash my hands

sometimes higher castings happen. It can be random, heat, stress, bad nights sleep, fatty/carbs foods will always do it for me well past 2 hour post prandial. Even occasional dawn phenomenon. If I wake up and then get an extra hours kip then that can do it too

Easier, said than done, but a one off exception will get lost in the averages. I have rare 10s (2 hour after food, I’m sure I get that high pre 2 hour after eating) and I still have hba1c of 39. I don’t set out to get peaks that high but I just accept it can happen

Oh yes, I am very particular to always wash my hands immediately prior to testing Andydragon.
The only thing I did differently with the second test moments following the 7.1 was to use a different finger. I'm just surprised that in probably less than a minute's gap that the second result was 6.4 which is a big difference, and in the range I usually see.

 

[Andydragon]

Oh yes, I am very particular to always wash my hands immediately prior to testing Andydragon.
The only thing I did differently with the second test moments following the 7.1 was to use a different finger. I'm just surprised that in probably less than a minute's gap that the second result was 6.4 which is a big difference, and in the range I usually see.

If you look at the accuracy chart I linked, those figures are close enough

if you take the average which is 6.75 then you could get any reading from 5.73 to 7.7

so yeah, you can get a broad range

 

[HSSS]

HSSS, Everything was the same as usual. Not eaten since 4pm previous day, slept 7 hours .. all normal for me. The reading two hours 'after' breakfast was 7.1 so now I am convinced that it was an error with the machine but it's made me feel that I need to do two tests everytime to see the difference

It s really not enough to stress over. Even the quality of you sleep can make a small difference and then it’s still within tolerance of the meter. If you do a second test and they vary a bit will you do a third? Unless it’s way off what you expect or you forgot to have clean hands then just accept it for what it is and less than a mmol difference isn’t a cause for concern.

 

[coby]

It s really not enough to stress over. Even the quality of you sleep can make a small difference and then it’s still within tolerance of the meter. If you do a second test and they vary a bit will you do a third? Unless it’s way off what you expect or you forgot to have clean hands then just accept it for what it is and less than a mmol difference isn’t a cause for concern.

HSSS, thank you for reassuring me. It just seemed a huge difference to me after not getting anything in the 7's all this time