The Cure for Type 2 Diabetes

[Angeleyes]

chocoholicnomore
In an ideal world then yes all diabetics of whatever type would be issued with a meter and test strips especially when newly diagnosed. That's something that many of us here think is essential.

There have been rare instances of type 2's requiring hospitalisation, however it is not something we need to fret about, just be aware of the scenario that blood sugars can be low as well as high and both scenarios need addressing. Maybe more carbs in the low case and less to avoid the highs, or some exercise to help keep levels down.

It's not an exact science and nobody should make sweeping generalisations about the matter of hypo levels. Diabetes information is designed to assist you to avoid both scenarios, not sweep them under the carpet!

 

[Grazer]

But surely if it was that important to medics then testing equipment would be routinely prescibed to T2s on diet/metformin.
Basically, can we have a hypo that needs medical intervention? If not, then surely grazer is right and we needn't worry about it. I think we have enough to worry about without adding anything unnecessarily.

Choco, your point is exact that which I've been making. I've never heard of any case ever where a normal T2 on diet only needed medical intervention for a hypo. I don't believe anyone could give us an example. And there is no reason to believe that a T2 on diet only can't liver dump glycogen ( to make glucose) the same as any non diabetic

 

[Grazer]

Angeleyes said:-

"there have been rare instances of type 2's requiring hospitalisation"

Care to give us a reference to even ONE on diet only out of the millions around?

 

[bystander]

As someone used to assessing people and giving constructive criticism I do find some of your posts confrontational. It is better to discuss and learn from things than dismiss something out of hand. That is how we learn.
I would agree that Type 2's are more likely to be high rather than low but it is also the way that diabetes affects our bodies than can make us go low more quickly in a circumstance that may not affect a non diabetic. You cannot divorce the two things. Our response time for liver dumping is also not the same as a non diabetic so takes us longer to feel better than a non diabetic.

 

[chocoholicnomore]

No offence angeleyes but I'll stick with grazer's answer. It makes more sense.

It's not an exact science and nobody should make sweeping generalisations about the matter of hypo levels. Diabetes information is designed to assist you to avoid both scenarios, not sweep them under the carpet!

I'd still rather have low bg than high, especially if it won't cause me any problems. As mentioned previously, high bg is more dangerous than low bg in our situation.

I get the impression that you are not on this forum to help people but rather to cause arguments and be confrontational. I have no idea why. :?

Grazer has always been helpful to everyone so I don't understand how you can join the forum only a few days ago and then be nasty to established members.

 

[Angeleyes]

Oh dear, I too would rather have lower blood sugar levels than high, however each level has its problems. As for being confrontational, not so, just interested in seeing the facts about what is and isn't a hypo aired on here. If you wish to follow grazers line, who m I to stand in your way? Perhaps he will look after you when you have a hypo? A real hypo. :wave:

 

[alliebee]

I've worked with a Senior Consultant collegue, and friend during my hospital career, and I asked him for his honest take on this, and he laughed at me, and told me during a career that has spanned 20 years, he has never heard of a type 2 diabetic not on insulin, or glicazide requiring medical intervention for a hypo.

Grazer is one of the first people to welcome newbies on to the site and answer all the endless questions, and is so lovely and helpful, and the posts are informative and insightful. Borofergie is the same, To try and pick holes repeatedly is in my opinion less than helpful to anyone.

 

[noblehead]

Time to put this one to bed IMHO, there's a lot of point scoring going on which isn't achieving anything........it all looks very unfriendly and confrontational to those viewing the forum for the very first time.

 

[ZACNEMMA]

Hi
I don't believe there is a cure... Prevention for type 2 maybe!

 

[carty]

Just an observation
The original post was in 2008 and the OP has not been involved in the recent postings I wonder if he is of the same mind and has any update on his original theories
CAROL

 

[ladybird64]

Hi Carol

I remember reading this thread when I first joined the forum and found it rather..ermm..extreme and slightly odd. Conspiracy theories etc..but anyway.

I had a look on the net to see if I could find any more info but I couldn't. No disrespect to Carefix if he is still out there, but I would have thought if this really had been the cure that he said it was, people would not be backward in coming forward.

If I found that taking a few spoonfuls of oil cured my Diabetes I would be shouting it from the rooftops and be willing to submit to any research to prove it's effectiveness.

We live in hope though. 8)

 

[Pneu]

If you are type 2 and sensible then you have nothing to fear about having dangerous hypo's... unless you are on insulin it is not going to happen... end of story... yes if you eat low carb and exercise a lot you will go low but frankly so would a non-diabetic.. anyone who does a reasonable amount of exercise daily should not be on a low-carbohydrate diet it's asking for trouble.

Carbohydrate is your bodies primary source of fuel in any moderate to intense exercise and whilst your body may stop insulin production during exercise post exercise your muscles need to replenish glucose and this uptake is triggered by insulin and thus you can go hypo if you aren't eating enough carbs as your body releases insulin to enable glucose uptake.

 

[xyzzy]

its a well established medical fact.

I am a newly diagnosed Type 2 with a Type 1 son diagnosed 12 years ago. I too would love to see some references for this "well established medical fact". I have spent a large part of the last 6 weeks researching everything to do with my new condition and have not come across any such evidence. I have come across all the papers that Pneu and others quote from regarding non linear risks on HbA1c's over 6.5% etc."

I have set myself an HbA1c target of 5.5%, it was 9.9% in mid December just after diagnosis. I am low carbing (less than 70g / day) , on 2 x 500g Metformin a day, taking a load of supplements and exercising to try reduce my fasting BG level into the 4's. Currently I am averaging around a fasting level of just over 5 and a +2 hour of 6.5 at every meal. It is very hard work and I have the utmost respect for those of you (Type 1 or 2) who have controlled your BG's successfully.

My aim is to get my BG's to be between 4 and 6.5 i.e. in the range of a non diabetic. My simple logic is if I run at the same level as a non diabetic I will have the same risks as a non diabetic. I do not want any increased risk as I want to live a long and happy life with good eyesight and both my feet.

It seems strange to me that the NHS rants on about smoking and about drinking telling everyone how bad and dangerous they are even to the extent of showing heart rending anti smoking cancer adverts on the TV yet they treat diabetics in such a fluffy way not pointing out the real risks etc. I suspect it comes down to money.

I look forward to the day I feel a little light headed because my BG reading is 3.something and have to take a glucose tablet. :wink:

Good luck everyone

 

[Unbeliever]

While I agree wih much of the above-especially about the hard work required - the trouble wih being in the 3 range , I find[I will not menion the "H" word} is that blood sugar then seems to rise afterwards wheher you reat the "H" epi.sode or not..

If like me , you do eventuall achieve fasting levels in the 4's and you have found it hard work
you may also find as I do that any deviation from your routine throws it all out of kilter and the upse caused by the rise in bs after a hypo has long lasting effects.

This may not happen with you as you are only on metformin. No "hypos" are not all they are cracked up to be but I take your point. I never thought it was something I would have to worry about and couldn't believe it when i actually had a couple of readings in thee 2s.

Strangely enough I felt better than when i had readings in the 3s or maybe i was just totally out of it :lol:
Good luck I am sure you will soon ge to your target levels. With your inside knowledge you have every incentive.

 

[xyzzy]

Thanks for the support unbeliever it is very appreciated.

Like you the time I have felt best was a Saturday morning a couple of weeks ago when out walking the dogs with my wife I suddenly "woke up." It literally was like a beautiful sunrise. My BG level when I took it a few minutes later was 4.4 my lowest ever reading. It was such a shock I broke into spontaneous exercise and ran 50 metres for the first time in years. The dog not to mention my wife were dumbfounded! I would like to wake up again. That experience has made me realise how c**p I have been feeling for the last couple of years....

I can see that if you take drugs that encourage insulin production at the same time as already having low (in the 4's) BG levels and then exercise etc. you can as a Type 2 induce a Hypo state and I have considered that within my plan. If you are on Metformin or any of the drugs that just inhibit BG take up then I would love to see some real evidence that they could produce a Hypo state.

Even if you can produce a Hypo state then I don't think it can be anything comparable or dangerous to a rapid insulin drop induced Hypo that a Type 1 can get and we Type 2's need to appreciate that fact and not belittle the anxiety and stress a Type 1 has to live with each day of their lives. Feeling a bit or even a lot light headed is not having a hypo. Take it from me as a parent with a Type 1 son having your son begin to Hypo at the bottom of a cliff in Cornwall just after he was diagnosed was not my idea of a fun holiday!

On the other hand (now expecting to be shot down in flames ) I would argue that Type 1's should give Type 2's who have achieved good control quite a lot of respect because those on only Metformin or Metformin equivalent drugs are achieving control through diet and exercise alone, they do not have the dubious "luxury" of being able to calculate an insulin dose prior to being "bad" to compensate. In fact when I said to my DN that I wanted to get as good control of my BG's as my Type 1 son she said "You have no chance of that as a Type 2 because you cannot calculate an insulin dose". What an outrageous and defeatist statement and I fully intend to make her eat her words!

 

[borofergie]

What a brilliant post xyzzy. I agree with every word.

 

[Unbeliever]

Oh don't think for one minute I underestimate he difference between T1 and T2 hypos. That is why I work as hard as i do and have fought all attempts to put me on insulin.
It might be the best thing for some but it would not fit into my lifestyle. I have managed to come offf most of my hypo-inducing medication so hope that the threat of insulin has receded.

I have to say that I have had some unpleasant hypo experiences. Not just a feeling of lighheadedness or dizziness. I really can't string a sentence together sometimes and have been known to start shovelling food into my mouth without regard for what it is. I shake uncontrollably
get feverish and very very angry,

The strange thing is that as I said before happpens when my bs is in the threes but no the twos.
Needless to say I go for 4s.

The great diffference is ,as has been pointed out that I and my family know that these episoded aare treatable or self correcting. They have been useful to me because I now know that combined insulin and oral medication as suggested to me would have been unsuitable if not dangerous.

 

[borofergie]

If you are type 2 and sensible then you have nothing to fear about having dangerous hypo's... unless you are on insulin it is not going to happen... end of story... yes if you eat low carb and exercise a lot you will go low but frankly so would a non-diabetic.. anyone who does a reasonable amount of exercise daily should not be on a low-carbohydrate diet it's asking for trouble.

Not true. The "carbo-loading" thing is 80s quack sports-nutrition, based (as usual) on some pretty ropey science. It does work - but it isn't the only way, or even the best way.

You can easily do a lot of exercise and low-carb. In fact, the approach is quite popular in the Swedish Triathlete community because they think it promotes more efficient fat burning. African marathon runners have always competed on a high-protein, high fat diet. I'm half way through Dean Karnazes book (a famous ultra-marathon runner) and he follows a diet that Bernstein would be proud of.

Best of all, my sporting hero, our very own Fallenstar, is a T1 ultra runner, who low-carbs and spits out carbed up male club runners for breakfast.

I weigh 260lbs, and I can easily run 7 miles before breakfast without "bonking".

 

[Grazer]

I can easily run 7 miles before breakfast without "bonking".

My wife would tell you that if I ran 7 miles before breakfast I wouldn't be able to bonk!

 

[Unbeliever]

I can easily run 7 miles before breakfast without "bonking".

My wife would tell you that if I ran 7 miles before breakfast I wouldn't be able to bonk!

:lol: :evil: :clap: