Low carb but BG high. Any ideas?

KimWheeler

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71
Just want to say you’re not alone, I am the same except my bloods are higher. I’m on Metformin but I’m going to tighten control massively to under 20g of carbs and see that helps but honestly I’ve been walking and keeping around 50g. Just going to try and lower mine.
Sorry to hear that. Woken up to BG of 14 today.drafting a letter to GP today so he's seen it before my appointment with nurse. It makes you feel miserable that no one is listening
 
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KimWheeler

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71
I had exactly the same, low carb stopped working, very frustrating when you know you are doing right but it’s not working.

What I had was a C-Peptide test, this measures how much insulin you are producing, in my case it seems I wasn’t making any or very little, I had been taking insulin for years before the test but it explained a lot.

I hope you get some answers, best of luck.
Thank you. I hope you're sorted now My biggest battle is gp .
 

lcarter

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504
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
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My pancreas
Sorry to hear that. Woken up to BG of 14 today.drafting a letter to GP today so he's seen it before my appointment with nurse. It makes you feel miserable that no one is listening

I feel for you. My levels are 18 now, and I’ve not eaten much. It seems I’ll need insulin after all. What are you asking the gp? Feel free to private message me x
 

KimWheeler

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71
I feel for you. My levels are 18 now, and I’ve not eaten much. It seems I’ll need insulin after all. What are you asking the gp? Feel free to private message me x
I'm asking for a test about my insulin levels. See Jim's comments above. I'm also asking for a 2nd opinion on Lada 1.5 (late onset diabetes) If it is Lada then I'll be on insulin anyway so I'm thinking of going that way anyway.
What are you planning to do?
 
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ArsenalCath

Active Member
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Type 1
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The rain and constant testing and insulin injections
Hi. I'm T2 and my BG is going in wrong direction. Gone back on low carb 25 -35 g (only range that worked in past) but cannot get BG below 10. Most days range is 12 - 14. I do suffer from dawn effect. I'm not sure what to do . I've just bought a monitor as Dr surgery wouldn't issue one. I've been saying for last 18 months something not right exercise regularly and good healthy food choices. HBA1C up from 163 to 175. At this rate I can't see me becoming drug free. I'm 64 and been on medication since 9/2015. Can anyone suggest anything. Thank you for reading this.
I was being treated for type 2 for two years. My BG was horrendous whatever I did. Then a new doctor joined the practice and referred me to endocrinologist who tested me for type 1. I was diagnosed with type 1.
 

lcarter

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504
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
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My pancreas
I'm asking for a test about my insulin levels. See Jim's comments above. I'm also asking for a 2nd opinion on Lada 1.5 (late onset diabetes) If it is Lada then I'll be on insulin anyway so I'm thinking of going that way anyway.
What are you planning to do?

I was diagnosed as a type 1 for 11 years and then a new doctor ordered a c peptide test and it showed I was producing lots of my own insulin. (It’s not up to much) but then they switched how I was treated.

I’m sticking with low carb but if my levels don’t come down I think I’ll have to go back to insulin x
 
M

Member496333

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@lcarter If you are indeed already making plenty of insulin then adding more will just make everything worse. Without knowing all the facts, the only answer I can think of is zero carb keto and intermittent fasting. Seems to me that your body is absolutely chock full of glucose from years of inappropriate insulin use. If I’m right, and I may not be, then simply going ‘low carb’ could take a decade to put a serious dent in your diabetes.
 

lcarter

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Messages
504
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
My pancreas
@lcarter If you are indeed already making plenty of insulin then adding more will just make everything worse. Without knowing all the facts, the only answer I can think of is zero carb keto and intermittent fasting. Seems to me that your body is absolutely chock full of glucose from years of inappropriate insulin use. If I’m right, and I may not be, then simply going ‘low carb’ could take a decade to put a serious dent in your diabetes.

I have a feeling you could be right, Jim. I feel completely lost because I thought this could work like it does for most people, but despite lots more moving about and sticking under 20g of carbs for five days, I’m still higher than normal. I think you’re right. Thank you.
 
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M

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I have a feeling you could be right, Jim. I feel completely lost because I thought this could work like it does for most people, but despite lots more moving about and sticking under 20g of carbs for five days, I’m still higher than normal. I think you’re right. Thank you.

Yeah I hear you. My insulin resistance was so bad it took years before even protein stopped causing me problems, and that was with religiously hardcore whole food keto and literally zero indiscretions or ‘cheats’. Keep calm and carry on. Stop putting glucose in and, so long as you really are still producing good amounts of insulin, your body will eventually burn off what’s already there.
 
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lcarter

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504
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Tablets (oral)
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My pancreas
Yeah I hear you. My insulin resistance was so bad it took years before even protein stopped causing me problems, and that was with religiously hardcore whole food keto and literally zero indiscretions or ‘cheats’. Keep calm and carry on. Stop putting glucose in and, so long as you really are still producing good amounts of insulin, your body will eventually burn off what’s already there.

Thanks. Is there a test I can do to see if my insulin is actually doing anything or is the c peptide the best one? I think mine will take years too, which makes sense. I just didn’t want ketones and high bgs, which is what seems to be happening—any advice here?

I have the Dawn phenomenon too, and other hormonal lady things thrown in to complicate it even more.

Thanks ever so much, I appreciate your advice more than you know. I feel like a medical enigma!
 

EllieM

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I just didn’t want ketones and high bgs, which is what seems to be happening—any advice here?
I'd be getting medical help on that, unless you're confident that you are in nutritional ketosis.
 
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M

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Thanks. Is there a test I can do to see if my insulin is actually doing anything or is the c peptide the best one? I think mine will take years too, which makes sense. I just didn’t want ketones and high bgs, which is what seems to be happening—any advice here?

I have the Dawn phenomenon too, and other hormonal lady things thrown in to complicate it even more.

Thanks ever so much, I appreciate your advice more than you know. I feel like a medical enigma!

C-peptide seems popular although it’s an indirect measurement intended to test your response to eating. I’m a big believer in resting metabolism being the best indicator of true metabolic health, so fasting insulin would be my weapon of choice. It directly measures circulating insulin when fasted. If high when fasted then your body is full of glucose with insulin permanently trying to push it out of the blood and/or have the liver turn it into fat.

My suspicion in your case is that your liver is deflating and constantly pouring out glucose. Counterintuitively, this process can accelerate when insulin levels fall, which turns the whole thing into a vicious circle. Jason Fung observes this phenomenon in his fasting patients where glucose goes up when not eating for several days. I guess like turbocharged dawn phenomenon on acid.

All just my informed opinion and not medical advice. I’m not in possession of all the facts. But then I suspect neither is your doctor. I’m no expert but based on what I do know, and my own experience, time and glucose abstinence are the best weapons in your arsenal. But do please keep an eye on the blood ketones vis-à-vis blood glucose.
 
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lcarter

Well-Known Member
Messages
504
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
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My pancreas
C-peptide seems popular although it’s an indirect measurement intended to test your response to eating. I’m a big believer in resting metabolism being the best indicator of true metabolic health, so fasting insulin would be my weapon of choice. It directly measures circulating insulin when fasted. If high when fasted then your body is full of glucose with insulin permanently trying to push it out of the blood and/or have the liver turn it into fat.

My suspicion in your case is that your liver is deflating and constantly pouring out glucose. Counterintuitively, this process can accelerate when insulin levels fall, which turns the whole thing into a vicious circle. Jason Fung observes this phenomenon in his fasting patients where glucose goes up when not eating for several days. I guess like turbocharged dawn phenomenon on acid.

All just my informed opinion and not medical advice. I’m not in possession of all the facts. But then I suspect neither is your doctor. I’m no expert but based on what I do know, and my own experience, time and glucose abstinence are the best weapons in your arsenal. But do please keep an eye on the blood ketones vis-à-vis blood glucose.

I did just that this morning. 17.1 and 0.9 ketones. Still not eating many carbs but I think I’ll take some fast acting insulin to see if I can get this down. If that works, I can use insulin until my levels lower—I’ll be honest it’s pointless asking the doctors unless I feel poorly (which I don’t. I feel better than I have in a long time) but if I don’t take insulin to bring this down, my levels will rocket all day.

I’ve got Jason Fungs book, The Diabetic Code, which I’ve read and yet can’t remember that part you’re referring to. Off to hunt for it now.

I know you’re not a medical expert, but you are helping me with trying different things. I’m confident in looking after myself, and my doctor often ‘jokes’ I know more than he does. So thank you.
 
M

Member496333

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I did just that this morning. 17.1 and 0.9 ketones. Still not eating many carbs but I think I’ll take some fast acting insulin to see if I can get this down. If that works, I can use insulin until my levels lower—I’ll be honest it’s pointless asking the doctors unless I feel poorly (which I don’t. I feel better than I have in a long time) but if I don’t take insulin to bring this down, my levels will rocket all day.

I’ve got Jason Fungs book, The Diabetic Code, which I’ve read and yet can’t remember that part you’re referring to. Off to hunt for it now.

I know you’re not a medical expert, but you are helping me with trying different things. I’m confident in looking after myself, and my doctor often ‘jokes’ I know more than he does. So thank you.

Yes I think a little insulin may not be a bad idea in your case if your blood levels are consistently that high, but I think the aim should be to reduce as quickly as possible. My dietary advice in extremis would be zero seed oils, zero glucose, zero fructose and zero alcohol. Probably not realistic but having that as a goal will serve you well. All those things will slow down your recovery.

Remember also it’s not a given that you will continue to produce plenty of your own insulin. Your pancreas could wave the white flag sooner or later, so don’t assume what’s true today will be true tomorrow.
 
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KimWheeler

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71
I was being treated for type 2 for two years. My BG was horrendous whatever I did. Then a new doctor joined the practice and referred me to endocrinologist who tested me for type 1. I was diagnosed with type 1.
Hi. Thank you for that. I'm glad you have support. I can't seem to get past nurse. She wants to put me on GLP 1 as the medicine reps say its safe. She lost me at that stage! No to testing. Not listening to my symptoms. Can't get an appointment with Dr who has most diabetes knowledge in practice. My daughter ,a nurse, gave me a script of what to ask for and say and it was dismissed out of hand as not needed. I didn't tell the nurse where my questions came from.
 

KimWheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
71
@lcarter If you are indeed already making plenty of insulin then adding more will just make everything worse. Without knowing all the facts, the only answer I can think of is zero carb keto and intermittent fasting. Seems to me that your body is absolutely chock full of glucose from years of inappropriate insulin use. If I’m right, and I may not be, then simply going ‘low carb’ could take a decade to put a serious dent in your diabetes.
Hi Jim I've been reading through your replies to another person having problems and I think I'm the same. Long story but diabetic review went badly. I'm now trying to get a Dr's appointment . I've order Dr Jungs books. Thank you for your time and help. Kind regards
 

Skippy1

Well-Known Member
Messages
73
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
I am struggling with low carb/increasing BG levels too. My readings have risen from below 10 to constantly high 20s and sometimes 30/HI over the past few months (no high ketones). I take victosa/liraglutide and have also been taking gliclazide for about 4 weeks - that seems to have some effect with recent number coming in at about 20-25. I've been low carb since 2012, keeping below 50g/day with a couple of 24/36 hour fasts each week. I eat meat/cheese/eggs, salad and above ground veg, sugar free jelly and berries, occasional piece of high cocoa chocolate. I was diagnosed with cancer in May and lost 10kg in the past month.
A c-peptide test a few years ago came back at over 2000 (range <600), so I was producing plenty of insulin, but the GP's response is to start insulin - this doesn't make sense to me.
Any suggestions for my next move?
 

KimWheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
71
I am struggling with low carb/increasing BG levels too. My readings have risen from below 10 to constantly high 20s and sometimes 30/HI over the past few months (no high ketones). I take victosa/liraglutide and have also been taking gliclazide for about 4 weeks - that seems to have some effect with recent number coming in at about 20-25. I've been low carb since 2012, keeping below 50g/day with a couple of 24/36 hour fasts each week. I eat meat/cheese/eggs, salad and above ground veg, sugar free jelly and berries, occasional piece of high cocoa chocolate. I was diagnosed with cancer in May and lost 10kg in the past month.
A c-peptide test a few years ago came back at over 2000 (range <600), so I was producing plenty of insulin, but the GP's response is to start insulin - this doesn't make sense to me.
Any suggestions for my next move?
Hi Jim Lahey recommended some reading from Jason Fung MD. Opened the complete guide to fasting and this amazing paragraph jumped out. I've been beating myself up for the last 6years. It's what has caused me extreme grief and yoyo ing between lapses. Now I've just got 2 books to read
20211021_165156.jpg
 
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johnme

Well-Known Member
Messages
192
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
An insulin test - fasting is probably the easiest and cheapest - will determine if you are under or overproducing insulin. This data is absolutely critical to deciding any course of therapy. If you are underproducing then you’d likely need to consult with an endocrinologist to investigate the cause. If you are overproducing then not much will put a dent in your problems other than even further carbohydrate restriction and maybe intermittent fasting to accelerate the burn-off of glucose in your system.

We can’t offer medical advice so the first port of call has to be discussing it with your GP. Sadly he/she will probably not reciprocate on the subject of insulin testing. If this happens there are ways and means to get tested privately and then we may be able to offer further opinion on how you might progress.

I found this post while searching. Was offered insulin by Diabetic nurse - our GPs don't deal with diabetes and I've found whenever I have a conversation with them in which it features they aren't very well briefed on the subject. My response to the nurse was 'so am I insulin deficient or resistant? Because obviously you'd need to know which before you started administering insulin.' She was adamant they don't test for it and I was adamant, no test no insulin. So how do you get it assayed?
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I found this post while searching. Was offered insulin by Diabetic nurse - our GPs don't deal with diabetes and I've found whenever I have a conversation with them in which it features they aren't very well briefed on the subject. My response to the nurse was 'so am I insulin deficient or resistant? Because obviously you'd need to know which before you started administering insulin.' She was adamant they don't test for it and I was adamant, no test no insulin. So how do you get it assayed?
Sadly for many privately or not at all. Possibly try for a referral to an endocrinologist who knows more than she does but is suspect you’ll have a battle as you might not “qualify”. I’m assuming you think you may be type 1/LADA or some other variety. Any indicators? Maybe we can help you build a case or point you in a direction you haven’t tried yet.
Tell us about your diagnosis, levels, diet etc etc.