Please educate me on fats!

Oldvatr

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@zand thank you for the very informative reply!
That really did help put a lot of things into context.

@bulkbuilder I wasn't being negative about anyone on this forum, just expressing my surprise against what I have always believed (perhaps because I am a child of the 70's).

View attachment 52030

I hadn't logged food for a while but this is the summary from MyFitnessPal for yesterday. Historically I may have been a bit concerned about those fat numbers but perhaps not, would welcome some critique. The scales seemed to be happy though, was down 400g today.
I have not used MyFitnessPal but those figures seem very strange. As has been said, the normal RDA for protein is between 1g andc1.5g per kg body weight. Higher intake increases the risk of damage to the kidneys.

I note that the fat results do not tally either. The actual is not reflected in the sum of the component parts.
 

Oldvatr

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Googling the history of how the low fat stance came about, and the errors and downright lies behind the 'low fat is good/cholesterol is bad' ideas, is an eye opener. I strongly suggest people read up on it.

Likewise, reading about how some seed oil fats are made is useful.

Another useful thing, when making dietary decisions about fats, is to check what fats were used in research, what quantity and proportion relative to the size of the test subjects, and if other things and foods were also involved.
I believe pate de foie gras involves over feeding geese with fat to force a fatty liver. The same thing occurs with mice and rat research studies, where there is enforced overfeeding of inappropriate food in proportions to create a desired outcome, but this is often ignored in the conclusions that the method may be inducing a confounding bias.
 

lucylocket61

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I believe pate de foie gras involves over feeding geese with fat to force a fatty liver. The same thing occurs with mice and rat research studies, where there is enforced overfeeding of inappropriate food in proportions to create a desired outcome, but this is often ignored in the conclusions that the method may be inducing a confounding bias.
No, they are not fed much fat, just a small amount to lubricate the grain, they are mainly force fed grains. Just like pigs are fed high carbs to fatten them up.
 

MoorT2

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I have not used MyFitnessPal but those figures seem very strange. As has been said, the normal RDA for protein is between 1g andc1.5g per kg body weight. Higher intake increases the risk of damage to the kidneys.

I note that the fat results do not tally either. The actual is not reflected in the sum of the component parts.

On the free version goal setting is a bit limited, you have to set a target calorie amount then divide protein, carbs and fat by a % number that equates to 100%.

The other problem is if you do exercise it automatically adjusts some of the goals for the day. I haven't figured out how to turn that off so I don't look at the goals just the actual numbers. Don't know why on my app the fat totals didn't add up, it shows slightly differently on the web version that does tally.

So at 85kg, I guess the protein target would be in the region of 85-100 g?
 

Dr Snoddy

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Recent Insights Into Mechanisms of β-Cell Lipo- and Glucolipotoxicity in Type 2 Diabetes
These studies demonstrated that acute and chronic elevations of FFAs by lipid infusion have differential effects on insulin secretion. Acute exposure enhances glucose-stimulated insulin secretion (GSIS), compensating for lipid-induced insulin resistance [9], [10]. In contrast, a more prolonged elevation of FFAs (24–48 h) causes β-cell function to deteriorate, impairing the ability of β-cells to compensate for the prevailing insulin resistance [9], [11], [12]. Significantly, when lipids are coinfused with glucose, the FFA elevation inhibits the stimulatory effect of hyperglycemia on β-cell function [13].

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022283619305716
I have not read every word of this very long article but I would certainly query the methodology of the experimentation. Comparisons between infusing known quantities of fatty acids directly into the blood stream and ingesting naturally occurring lipids which are synergistically linked to many other compounds are just not valid.
 

zand

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n=1 again but... I DID get fat on a Low fat diet and only started to lose weight when I decided to do the opposite of what I had done for 25+ years.

It doesn't matter how many times I hear that low fat is better for you, my body simply does not agree.

Then there's the month long high fat low carb experiment that my hubby did. I notice the folk who support low fat are ignoring my post about that. Another inconvenient truth?
 

Dr Snoddy

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I too struggled with the idea of eating more (healthy) fat having been raised on the low-fat mantra. However, fat gives satiety to meals and makes eating low carbohydrate doable in the long term. This approach has enabled me to maintain a constant weight and blood glucose levels for the last 7 years. Adjusting to the idea that cheese and full fat plain yoghurt are not just ok but actually desirable had taken some effort. As I also wanted to increase natural sources of calcium in my diet this change has had benefits all round.
 

lucylocket61

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n=1 again but... I DID get fat on a Low fat diet and only started to lose weight when I decided to do the opposite of what I had done for 25+ years.

It doesn't matter how many times I hear that low fat is better for you, my body simply does not agree.

Then there's the month long high fat low carb experiment that my hubby did. I notice the folk who support low fat are ignoring my post about that. Another inconvenient truth?
Me too.
 
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Tannith

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@zand thank you for the very informative reply!
That really did help put a lot of things into context.

@bulkbuilder I wasn't being negative about anyone on this forum, just expressing my surprise against what I have always believed (perhaps because I am a child of the 70's).

View attachment 52030

I hadn't logged food for a while but this is the summary from MyFitnessPal for yesterday. Historically I may have been a bit concerned about those fat numbers but perhaps not, would welcome some critique. The scales seemed to be happy though, was down 400g today.
AHA Recommendation
The American Heart Association recommends aiming for a dietary pattern that achieves 5% to 6% of calories from saturated fat.

For example, if you need about 2,000 calories a day, no more than 120 of them should come from saturated fat.

That’s about 13 grams of saturated fat per day.

There’s a lot of conflicting information about saturated fats. Should I eat them or not?
The American Heart Association recommends limiting saturated fats – which are found in butter, cheese, red meat and other animal-based foods, and tropical oils. Decades of sound science has proven it can raise your “bad” cholesterol and put you at higher risk for heart disease.

When you hear about the latest “diet of the day” or a new or odd-sounding theory about food, consider the source. The American Heart Association makes dietary recommendations only after carefully considering the latest scientific evidence.

https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/saturated-fats
 

lucylocket61

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Being newly diagnosed as T2 I'm trying to (re)educate myself about nutrition to help me manage my condition without the need for medication.

-Eliminate sugar - no brainer
-Lower carbs, completely understood
-Higher fats - this is blowing my mind.

Fats are bad right?? Obviously not, fatty fish oils, nuts and avacado's etc I understand but reading this forum for a few days nowI 've been surprised how many criticise low fat advice and promote full fat dairy and meat fats etc. This goes against everything I thought I knew and I'm looking to understand more about why this is beneficial to our health and BG levels.

I also understand not all fats are equal, with trans, saturated, mono and poly all being about.

So please educate me, thanks
Thinking about this a bit more, I suggest you have a look at cholesterol. Particularly if the recommended cholesterol levels are a good idea, what cholesterol does, good and bad cholesterol, how our bodies make and use cholesterol, and different types of LDL cholesterol.

I suggest this as most of the narrative around eating fats is about cholesterol levels, so knowing about cholesterol will help with informed decision making.

There are a number of threads in here on the subject, with lots of links to research and discussion about the way research was done and the scientific validity of some conclusions.

I am very much in favour of informed choices and decisions.
 

bulkbiker

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This was yesterday's food diary that gave those numbers:

Breakfast: 1x Heck 97% Sausage, Scrambled Egg, Grilled Mushrooms
Lunch: Homemade Roasted Pumpkin and Chestnut Soup, 80g of mixed berries with fat free greek yoghurt
Dinner: Unstuffed Cabbage and Beef Casserole, green beans (recipe included some rice which I did include)
Snacks: 5x Green Olives, 1x square of lindt 85% dark chocolate, ~50g cheddar cheese

Exercise: 3.75k jog

Guessing the pumpkin and chestnut soup gave most of the carbs?
That aside looks pretty good.
Are you measuring your blood glucose too?
 

MoorT2

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Guessing the pumpkin and chestnut soup gave most of the carbs?
That aside looks pretty good.
Are you measuring your blood glucose too?

The casserole had some rice but a smallish amount.

I haven't been measuring BG but I've just been given a Wavesense Jazz meter. The testing strips are a few years out of date (are they unusable now?). I've ordered some more from Amazon, I should get them tomorrow.
 
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Antje77

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Fats are bad right?? Obviously not, fatty fish oils, nuts and avacado's etc I understand but reading this forum for a few days nowI 've been surprised how many criticise low fat advice and promote full fat dairy and meat fats etc. This goes against everything I thought I knew and I'm looking to understand more about why this is beneficial to our health and BG levels.
I don't know too much about all the scientific background, as it's not a subject which greatly interests me much. But I think the traditional advice of eating low fat, and especially saturated fat is based on the belief it will mess up your cholesterol levels.
My 'knowledge' doesn't go much further than a vague notion that HDL is the good one and LDL is the bad one.

So here's what changing my diet to less carbs, more fat (including plenty of saturated fats) did to my numbers between diagnosis 5 years ago and my latest blood draw last month, without medication for cholesterol:

LDL went from 3.8 to 2.1
HDL went from 1.04 to 1.50
triglycerides went from 5.1 to 1.22
cholesterol/HDL ratio from 6.1 to 2.6
total cholesterol from 7.0 to 3.9

I'm only one person and not a substitute for a large study, but if eating more fats of all kinds is bad for me, it clearly isn't because of my lipids.
 

bulkbiker

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The casserole had some rice but a smallish amount.

I haven't been measuring BG but I've just been given a Wavesense Jazz meter. The testing strips are a few years out of date (are they unusable now?). I've ordered some more from Amazon, I should get them tomorrow.

I'd ditch out of date strips as they can often give incorrect readings.
Can I ask how much they were as the cost of monitoring is in the strips and there are some reasonably price test machines out the that are relatively inexpensive to run.

As for food the rice probably won't have helped your blood sugar either.
 
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MoorT2

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I'd ditch out of date strips as they can often give incorrect readings.
Can I ask how much they were as the cost of monitoring is in the strips and there are some reasonably price test machines out the that are relatively inexpensive to run.

They were 18£ on Amazon. I saw them a lot cheaper else where (around £12) but Amazon gave me next-day (Sunday) delivery for that.
 

bulkbiker

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It's because people listen to the advice given on these forums (which really only comes from one view-point) that I do contest it.

But when that advice works most people would be happy to try it you see.

We have hundreds (probably thousands) of people who have succeeded with LCHF.

When you are happy to share your results and come back having put your T2 into remission with your "mastering diabetes" protocol you will be listened too as well (assuming it works of course).

You seem very reluctant to put your theories into practise and I do have to wonder why that is.

@Tannith has at least done the ND and shares some results... we can see over time how well it goes for her.
 

lucylocket61

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But when that advice works most people would be happy to try it you see.

We have hundreds (probably thousands) of people who have succeeded with LCHF.

When you are happy to share your results and come back having put your T2 into remission with your "mastering diabetes" protocol you will be listened too as well (assuming it works of course).

You seem very reluctant to put your theories into practise and I do have to wonder why that is.

@Tannith has at least done the ND and shares some results... we can see over time how well it goes for her.
Tannith has not done the ND. She has done 1000 calorie low fat diets. She is open about being a supporter of ND diet without having chosen to do it herself. I believe she calls her diet the 'wimps' version in her signature.
 

MoorT2

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Ah ok.. I use a Tee2 meter strips are £10 for 50 and you can usually get the meter for free from here

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...py-of-tee2-test-strips?variant=19264017367097

Thanks for the tip. I was given the meter so it didn't cost me anything. I'll burn through these 50 tests and see how cheap I can get the strips Vs other meters. At this stage I just want to get a feel for my tolerance levels, my HbA1c this month was 41 so I'm doing alright but I've stopped the Metformin and want to push that down into the 30s.