This just proves it all

[borofergie]

That's very interesting Phoenix. The link between activity (rather than what people eat) and obesity seems to be pretty key as is the link between social class and obesity and TV viewing hours and obesity!.

Actually I don't agree. One of the most compelling parts of Taubes book is when he discusses exercise and obesity, and the lack of scientific evidence that exercising is any good for weight loss.

There are 3500kcals in pound of fat. When I run I burn about 200kcal per mile, which means that I'd have to run 17.5 miles to burn a single pound of fat. All that running 17.5 miles would do is make me very hungry, and I'd probably end up consuming most of those calories in additional food.

I started running to lose weight. I actually find that, when I'm training hard, I can't lose any weight. Now I'm trying to lose weight so I can run better...

 

[borofergie]

I went on a Desmond course last week...

The focus was largely on sugar intake with respect to dietary guidelines with another exercise being to estimate how many sugar cubes were in certain types of food. Quite interesting if that's what rocks your boat. There was mention about needing to control portion sizes but no guidance given. A handful of something obviously differs if you have hands like mine which are as big as shovels! There was mention made of the need to eat a good level of starchy carbs, nothing said about managing quantities of carbs or guidelines as to how much was a good level.

This is absolutely terrible advice, and a perfect illustration of why the NHS has it all wrong with T2 diabetes.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with the quality of individual HCPs involved, but with the fact that the message is fundamentally flawed. I'm not saying that there isn't some good sense buried in there somewhere (Sid manages the old portion control thing very well), but the focus is completely wrong (managing the sugar cubes and not explicitly the starchy carbs).

50:50 my bum.

 

[xyzzy]

That's very interesting Phoenix. The link between activity (rather than what people eat) and obesity seems to be pretty key as is the link between social class and obesity and TV viewing hours and obesity!.

Actually I don't agree. One of the most compelling parts of Taubes book is when he discusses exercise and obesity, and the lack of scientific evidence that exercising is any good for weight loss.

There are 3500kcals in pound of fat. When I run I burn about 200kcal per mile, which means that I'd have to run 17.5 miles to burn a single pound of fat. All that running 17.5 miles would do is make me very hungry, and I'd probably end up consuming most of those calories in additional food.

I started running to lose weight. I actually find that, when I'm training hard, I can't lose any weight. Now I'm trying to lose weight so I can run better...

Not disagreeing with you or anyone else as I don't see there's enough evidence yet. The way I see it is, as yet, it appears no one has definitively proven anything yet. You can find problems in every theory.

My "theory" based on my limited experience is that it looks to be "genetic predisposition" + "something" = "high chance of diabetes"

"something" is what needs to be identified and researched. Currently there appear to be competing and conflicting viewpoints although there are some strong indicators. As long as the studies and evidence being fed into solving "something" is science based (uses the scientific method) then everything is fine imo and people can have a good healthy debate around it. That's how science is supposed to work and progress made.

 

[viviennem]

If obesity causes Type 2 diabetes, why aren't all obese people diabetic?

My GP practice does test for diabetes on a routine basis, but I know of 2 women locally, both of whom made me look quite sleek, even at my heaviest :shock: who were not diabetic.

Of course, they could have been lying to me . . .

And what about insulin resistance causing people to get fat?

Knowing what I know now, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that both my parents had Type 2. But neither ever went near a doctor, never had blood tests, and anyway at that time the diagnosis level was higher - so how would they have known?

The 'epidemic' of Type 2, and of elevated cholesterol levels, both seem to me to coincide with the swing to a low-fat, high carbohydrate diet. This may be too simplistic; exercise must be in there somewhere, but is there a higher occurence of Type 2 in people who have very restricted mobility?

Questions, questions . . .

Viv 8)

 

[Grazer]

So how come I got type 2??



Not really me!

 

[Pickwick]

I've been a T2 for about 6 years now. My only contact with my GP (about diabetes at least) was for 10 minutes of diagnosis back then, which mostly consisted of 'serve you right fatty'. I've never seen (or been offered) a dietician, and it took me 2 years of desk banging to get a diabetic eye test. I was shucked off onto a practice nurse, who saw me about every 6 months. That at least didn't go too badly. At first, her ignorance astonished me - she clearly knew little beyond the official leaflets she handed out. But it became clear she was at least caring, within the limits of extremely limited resources. After 2 or 3 years, she was admitting to me that she'd learned far more from her patients than from anywhere else.

Just last year, when we were (unusually) having an argument about the local Trust's reluctance to place diabetics on anything more than the most basic and cheapest levels of medication, she admitted - clearly unhappily - that departing from the NHS 'party line' on (among a lot of other things) diabetes was something that few NHS staff dared contemplate these days. I got a clear impression of deep disillusionment.

On my last visit, I found her gone. There's a new practice nurse, and I can't see us ever getting into a workable understanding. We're back - solidly and uncompromisingly - to "sort yourself out fatty", and I've been firmly re-issued with all the old leaflets I'd previously binned. Mentioning this forum, I was told "If you're going to listen to that sort of rubbish, on your own head be it."

I'm retired and largely immobile from advanced arthritis (which isn't taken all that seriously either). If it weren't for my need for free prescriptions, I'd by now be seriously re-considering going back to that clinic.

 

[xyzzy]

I've been a T2 for about 6 years now. My only contact with my GP (about diabetes at least) was for 10 minutes of diagnosis back then, which mostly consisted of 'serve you right fatty'. I've never seen (or been offered) a dietician, and it took me 2 years of desk banging to get a diabetic eye test. I was shucked off onto a practice nurse, who saw me about every 6 months. That at least didn't go too badly. At first, her ignorance astonished me - she clearly knew little beyond the official leaflets she handed out. But it became clear she was at least caring, within the limits of extremely limited resources. After 2 or 3 years, she was admitting to me that she'd learned far more from her patients than from anywhere else.

Just last year, when we were (unusually) having an argument about the local Trust's reluctance to place diabetics on anything more than the most basic and cheapest levels of medication, she admitted - clearly unhappily - that departing from the NHS 'party line' on (among a lot of other things) diabetes was something that few NHS staff dared contemplate these days. I got a clear impression of deep disillusionment.

On my last visit, I found her gone. There's a new practice nurse, and I can't see us ever getting into a workable understanding. We're back - solidly and uncompromisingly - to "sort yourself out fatty", and I've been firmly re-issued with all the old leaflets I'd previously binned. Mentioning this forum, I was told "If you're going to listen to that sort of rubbish, on your own head be it."

I'm retired and largely immobile from advanced arthritis (which isn't taken all that seriously either). If it weren't for my need for free prescriptions, I'd by now be seriously re-considering going back to that clinic.

Yes my DSN who's actually a nice lady and takes an interest in my "Swedish" health care approach as I tell her obviously doesn't approve of this site. She specifically told me to go to the one that's "pink" and avoid this one :lol: (Now of course it's the one that's "blue" after its recent change)

So long as you are in control of your BG's the DIY approach is best. If of course you do get problems I'd still advice a visit to your GP. ...but that isn't the point is it Pickwick you and I know what we need to do but what about the other poor people who believe her evil propaganda and don't visit here because we're just a bunch of whining revolutionaries who know nothing about our condition.

oops you seem to have started me off again. :silent:

 

[Eilean13]

Just remembered another thing about the Desmond Course.

A question was asked about who tested and how often. We were told that there was no point in testing, only if you wished to do something about BS levels. I would have thought that was the crux of the argument. If you keep on doing the same old things how can you effect any change.

Better go because the more I think about it I think I will be upsetting my BP or curdling my blood or something drastic.

Diane

 

[xyzzy]

So how come I got type 2??



Not really me!

so you say... After being sheared I'd guess :lol:

 

[Camilla]

Hi Xyzzy

I am indeed pointing out about the treatment of diabetics in general, things are really quite bad in many cases. Dieticians are trained to give advice that is the exact opposite of what is required. We all know carbs cause rises in blood sugar yet they are busy telling patients to eat a higher amount. The only thing that we can all do is educate each other by relating what we know works. A lot of people hang on every word their doctor, diabetes nurse and dietician is telling them, and so they deterioriate and inevitably they must. More medications have to be taken to cover the excessive carb intakes. So the answer is that people need to read and research for themselves, find out what the real score is. Then they need to test after eating and isolate what is causing them to spike so much. Sadly, many don't do that, they just go by what they are told.

 

[Camilla]

Just remembered another thing about the Desmond Course.

A question was asked about who tested and how often. We were told that there was no point in testing, only if you wished to do something about BS levels. I would have thought that was the crux of the argument. If you keep on doing the same old things how can you effect any change.

Better go because the more I think about it I think I will be upsetting my BP or curdling my blood or something drastic.

Diane

I understand and it makes me annoyed too. You are not on your own. We in this forum do know the truth and by spreading it, we will be doing a lot of good. So don't despair. I was told testing was futile too. I ignored that nonsense and I do test daily and I have got it under good control. Most of it is logic anyway but people do need to put some work in and find out what is really required.