Type 2 Thyroid Issue

[Uncle Fred]

Having been diagnosed with DB2 some 15 years ago, the advice that I was given at the time was ‘regular exercise and sensible eating’. As an aside, since my cholesterol was also found to be high at the time, I was also prescribed with the ubiquitous statins and subsequently Ramipril, the latter primarily to protect my kidneys. A new life-style commenced and after 12 months the weight and waistline had reduced substantially. This continued for some 10-12 years at which point I noticed that my weight and waistline were beginning to creep back up, albeit not obese nor even technically overweight. There being no change in lifestyle, I had to look elsewhere. Now as we all know; diabetes takes no prisoners - from eyes to feet - and one of its targets has got to be the thyroid gland, which also has been shown elsewhere to affect HbA1c levels. I duly asked the doc to check my thyroid out and although initially he said that no action is required, some 12 months later, a letter arrived to say that another blood test is needed because your last thyroid results were high!! It would seem that the docs simply look at your test results and if they just happen to creep into the range that they have in front of them i.e., as provided by the local health authority, no action is deemed necessary. On checking the latest results for myself, I discovered that my thyroid was in fact underactive, at least according to the British and US Thyroid associations – as indeed it was 12 months previously. As a consequence, I was initially prescribed with 25mg Levothyroxine, which was subsequently increased to 50mg. Whilst this medication has pulled the thyroid TSH/T4 levels into range, I still feel that the gland is not working as well as it did say 10 years ago. Furthermore, as the values were still in the lower quartile of the statistical range and my blood pressure is OK, I asked the doc if the Levo dosage could be nudged up a bit. Answer came back NO; he did not wish to find himself in a coroner’s court. His words not mine. He also refused to refer me to an endocrinologist. Hence, if the doc, by his own admission can’t help me to get back to where I was, even though still following the regular exercise and sensible eating regime, where do I go from here? Is there anything out there that can give my metabolism a boost in addition to what I am already doing?

 

[Hertfordshiremum]

Having been diagnosed with DB2 some 15 years ago, the advice that I was given at the time was ‘regular exercise and sensible eating’. As an aside, since my cholesterol was also found to be high at the time, I was also prescribed with the ubiquitous statins and subsequently Ramipril, the latter primarily to protect my kidneys. A new life-style commenced and after 12 months the weight and waistline had reduced substantially. This continued for some 10-12 years at which point I noticed that my weight and waistline were beginning to creep back up, albeit not obese nor even technically overweight. There being no change in lifestyle, I had to look elsewhere. Now as we all know; diabetes takes no prisoners - from eyes to feet - and one of its targets has got to be the thyroid gland, which also has been shown elsewhere to affect HbA1c levels. I duly asked the doc to check my thyroid out and although initially he said that no action is required, some 12 months later, a letter arrived to say that another blood test is needed because your last thyroid results were high!! It would seem that the docs simply look at your test results and if they just happen to creep into the range that they have in front of them i.e., as provided by the local health authority, no action is deemed necessary. On checking the latest results for myself, I discovered that my thyroid was in fact underactive, at least according to the British and US Thyroid associations – as indeed it was 12 months previously. As a consequence, I was initially prescribed with 25mg Levothyroxine, which was subsequently increased to 50mg. Whilst this medication has pulled the thyroid TSH/T4 levels into range, I still feel that the gland is not working as well as it did say 10 years ago. Furthermore, as the values were still in the lower quartile of the statistical range and my blood pressure is OK, I asked the doc if the Levo dosage could be nudged up a bit. Answer came back NO; he did not wish to find himself in a coroner’s court. His words not mine. He also refused to refer me to an endocrinologist. Hence, if the doc, by his own admission can’t help me to get back to where I was, even though still following the regular exercise and sensible eating regime, where do I go from here? Is there anything out there that can give my metabolism a boost in addition to what I am already doing?

Hi I had the same problem about 7 years ago. I eventually paid to see an endo who was appalled by my GP and wrote a stern letter! It’s probably about costs. I was told if your TSH is higher than 2.5 it will be difficult to lose weight even though the upper limit is 5.
There is something you can easily do. The private endo told me try finishing your dinner by 8pm then only drink water (no tea or coffee after 8pm - it’s been proved to interfere with absorption) Take your Levothyroxine at 11pm. There was a study in the US about 5 years ago where everyone improved by doing this. I improved dramatically and still do exactly this; so did my dad, his GP wanted to know what he had done! My TSH went from 7 to 1 in two months following this advice. In the US this is common practice, taking it in the morning often doesn’t give it enough time before it goes through you and it can be less effective. Any questions please ask, when you swap over don’t take a tablet in the morning then again in the evening, miss the morning tablet that day.

 

[Uncle Fred]

Hi I had the same problem about 7 years ago. I eventually paid to see an endo who was appalled by my GP and wrote a stern letter! It’s probably about costs. I was told if your TSH is higher than 2.5 it will be difficult to lose weight even though the upper limit is 5.
There is something you can easily do. The private endo told me try finishing your dinner by 8pm then only drink water (no tea or coffee after 8pm - it’s been proved to interfere with absorption) Take your Levothyroxine at 11pm. There was a study in the US about 5 years ago where everyone improved by doing this. I improved dramatically and still do exactly this; so did my dad, his GP wanted to know what he had done! My TSH went from 7 to 1 in two months following this advice. In the US this is common practice, taking it in the morning often doesn’t give it enough time before it goes through you and it can be less effective. Any questions please ask, when you swap over don’t take a tablet in the morning then again in the evening, miss the morning tablet that day.

Many thanks for your advice. I shall do as you suggest and see how it goes. Rather sad that doctors look at statistics and not the patient.

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi I had the same problem about 7 years ago. I eventually paid to see an endo who was appalled by my GP and wrote a stern letter! It’s probably about costs. I was told if your TSH is higher than 2.5 it will be difficult to lose weight even though the upper limit is 5.
There is something you can easily do. The private endo told me try finishing your dinner by 8pm then only drink water (no tea or coffee after 8pm - it’s been proved to interfere with absorption) Take your Levothyroxine at 11pm. There was a study in the US about 5 years ago where everyone improved by doing this. I improved dramatically and still do exactly this; so did my dad, his GP wanted to know what he had done! My TSH went from 7 to 1 in two months following this advice. In the US this is common practice, taking it in the morning often doesn’t give it enough time before it goes through you and it can be less effective. Any questions please ask, when you swap over don’t take a tablet in the morning then again in the evening, miss the morning tablet that day.

I take my Levothyroxine and Liothyronine about 4am, when I naturally rouse, then go back to sleep until it's time to get up.

Your Doc is correct about not taking your meds close to a meal, but it can be done in the morning.

 

[AndBreathe]

Having been diagnosed with DB2 some 15 years ago, the advice that I was given at the time was ‘regular exercise and sensible eating’. As an aside, since my cholesterol was also found to be high at the time, I was also prescribed with the ubiquitous statins and subsequently Ramipril, the latter primarily to protect my kidneys. A new life-style commenced and after 12 months the weight and waistline had reduced substantially. This continued for some 10-12 years at which point I noticed that my weight and waistline were beginning to creep back up, albeit not obese nor even technically overweight. There being no change in lifestyle, I had to look elsewhere. Now as we all know; diabetes takes no prisoners - from eyes to feet - and one of its targets has got to be the thyroid gland, which also has been shown elsewhere to affect HbA1c levels. I duly asked the doc to check my thyroid out and although initially he said that no action is required, some 12 months later, a letter arrived to say that another blood test is needed because your last thyroid results were high!! It would seem that the docs simply look at your test results and if they just happen to creep into the range that they have in front of them i.e., as provided by the local health authority, no action is deemed necessary. On checking the latest results for myself, I discovered that my thyroid was in fact underactive, at least according to the British and US Thyroid associations – as indeed it was 12 months previously. As a consequence, I was initially prescribed with 25mg Levothyroxine, which was subsequently increased to 50mg. Whilst this medication has pulled the thyroid TSH/T4 levels into range, I still feel that the gland is not working as well as it did say 10 years ago. Furthermore, as the values were still in the lower quartile of the statistical range and my blood pressure is OK, I asked the doc if the Levo dosage could be nudged up a bit. Answer came back NO; he did not wish to find himself in a coroner’s court. His words not mine. He also refused to refer me to an endocrinologist. Hence, if the doc, by his own admission can’t help me to get back to where I was, even though still following the regular exercise and sensible eating regime, where do I go from here? Is there anything out there that can give my metabolism a boost in addition to what I am already doing?

The numbers of folks with errant thyroid function is rather large. I don't associate it with T2, but more that it's common and even moreso as we add a few more years to life's clock.

Annoyingly care for thyroid issues is patchy at best, but mainly quite sub-optimal, as evidenced by GPs only testing TSH with T4 if you're lucky. to be honest, that's only a small part of the pacture.

TSH is a signalling hormone from the ituitary gland. It tells the thyroid to get into action. The higher the number, the "louder" the pituitary is "shouting".

Our thyroids then release T4 to start the process, but T4 is a passive hormone. It cannot work as it is. It has to be converted by the magic in or bodies to T3. Have you had your T3 levels tested? Not many GPs every do that, and NHS labs will only run the test if the bloods are outrageous, or if an Endocrinologist instructs it is done.

So, if your body has a malfunction meaning it is suboptimal (or in my case, plain old rubbish!) at converting T4 to T3 your thyroid function and metabolic health will struggle to get well. Due to those issues, I take T3 too, which is prescribed by an Endo.

If your GP will not insist on testing T3 too, then you can do that for your self. There are several places doing private blood testing, from finger prick tests, at competitive prices. For example, an outfit called Monitor My Health offer a test for £29.

Monitor My Health is part of the NHS lab in Exeter. https://monitormyhealth.org.uk/#

If you are looking for a deep dive on your thyroid, then I would suggest a full thyroid panel, including tests for antibodies. I'd also look at my iron and vitamin levels. For instance, our bodies will not utilise T4 well, if we are low on Vitamin D.

If you want support for our thyroid challenges, I'd suggest the Thyroid UK area in Health Unlocked. There are some very knowledgeable folks over there.

https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk/posts

 

[MrsA2]

@Uncle Fred . Are you happy to share your hba1c results with us? And also what you see as a healthy diet?
I just ask because creeping weight gain may be as related to your diabetes as to your thyroid

 

[Resurgam]

I tried taking Thyroxine at night and suffered from very vivid and alarming nightmares which did not stop when I woke up - so I decided to revert to mornings.
Since then my Thyroxine dose has been reduced as my levels were high, but that was after eating low carb constatly for some years.
In the past I have never managed to stay eating low carb for so long, as my GPs have always pushed me to go low fat, high carb every few years, even though I told them how ill it made me feel.

 

[Erin]

The numbers of folks with errant thyroid function is rather large. I don't associate it with T2, but more that it's common and even moreso as we add a few more years to life's clock.

Annoyingly care for thyroid issues is patchy at best, but mainly quite sub-optimal, as evidenced by GPs only testing TSH with T4 if you're lucky. to be honest, that's only a small part of the pacture.

TSH is a signalling hormone from the ituitary gland. It tells the thyroid to get into action. The higher the number, the "louder" the pituitary is "shouting".

Our thyroids then release T4 to start the process, but T4 is a passive hormone. It cannot work as it is. It has to be converted by the magic in or bodies to T3. Have you had your T3 levels tested? Not many GPs every do that, and NHS labs will only run the test if the bloods are outrageous, or if an Endocrinologist instructs it is done.

So, if your body has a malfunction meaning it is suboptimal (or in my case, plain old rubbish!) at converting T4 to T3 your thyroid function and metabolic health will struggle to get well. Due to those issues, I take T3 too, which is prescribed by an Endo.

If your GP will not insist on testing T3 too, then you can do that for your self. There are several places doing private blood testing, from finger prick tests, at competitive prices. For example, an outfit called Monitor My Health offer a test for £29.

Monitor My Health is part of the NHS lab in Exeter. https://monitormyhealth.org.uk/#

If you are looking for a deep dive on your thyroid, then I would suggest a full thyroid panel, including tests for antibodies. I'd also look at my iron and vitamin levels. For instance, our bodies will not utilise T4 well, if we are low on Vitamin D.

If you want support for our thyroid challenges, I'd suggest the Thyroid UK area in Health Unlocked. There are some very knowledgeable folks over there.
I live in Canada, and I hope I will get my thyroid tested again since discontinuing 41 year lithium treatment 6 mos. ago approx.. I may be confusing hypos with hyperthyroidism.
https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk/posts

 

[Uncle Fred]

The numbers of folks with errant thyroid function is rather large. I don't associate it with T2, but more that it's common and even moreso as we add a few more years to life's clock.

Annoyingly care for thyroid issues is patchy at best, but mainly quite sub-optimal, as evidenced by GPs only testing TSH with T4 if you're lucky. to be honest, that's only a small part of the pacture.

TSH is a signalling hormone from the ituitary gland. It tells the thyroid to get into action. The higher the number, the "louder" the pituitary is "shouting".

Our thyroids then release T4 to start the process, but T4 is a passive hormone. It cannot work as it is. It has to be converted by the magic in or bodies to T3. Have you had your T3 levels tested? Not many GPs every do that, and NHS labs will only run the test if the bloods are outrageous, or if an Endocrinologist instructs it is done.

So, if your body has a malfunction meaning it is suboptimal (or in my case, plain old rubbish!) at converting T4 to T3 your thyroid function and metabolic health will struggle to get well. Due to those issues, I take T3 too, which is prescribed by an Endo.

If your GP will not insist on testing T3 too, then you can do that for your self. There are several places doing private blood testing, from finger prick tests, at competitive prices. For example, an outfit called Monitor My Health offer a test for £29.

Monitor My Health is part of the NHS lab in Exeter. https://monitormyhealth.org.uk/#

If you are looking for a deep dive on your thyroid, then I would suggest a full thyroid panel, including tests for antibodies. I'd also look at my iron and vitamin levels. For instance, our bodies will not utilise T4 well, if we are low on Vitamin D.

If you want support for our thyroid challenges, I'd suggest the Thyroid UK area in Health Unlocked. There are some very knowledgeable folks over there.

https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk/posts

Thank you for your knowledgeable input. You are correct in perceiving that no T3 tests have been carried out in my case and in the last blood test T4 was also dropped! Thanks also for the advice on the link that you have provided.

 

[Uncle Fred]

@Uncle Fred . Are you happy to share your hba1c results with us? And also what you see as a healthy diet?
I just ask because creeping weight gain may be as related to your diabetes as to your thyroid

Thank you for your input.
Not a specialist but my understanding is that the thyroid (metabolism), HbA1c and diabetes are all interlinked. Hence if, as I suspect, the unremitting diabetes has led to a corresponding deterioration in the thyroid function - making it underactive, as I believe it has in my case - I further suspect that the same underactive thyroid also gave to a higher HbA1c value. Not desperate (yet) but, in my case, I am some 4kg heavier than I was - and would like to be - and similarly, the waist circumference 5cm larger. HbA1c values have also crept up from 48 to 51. Life style being unchanged, it seems to me to be down to a case of ‘cause and effect’, though I guess that others may suggest otherwise.

See also the extract below from the American Thyroid Association:

Summaries for the Public from recent articles in Clinical Thyroidology

HYPOTHYROIDISM
Hypothyroidism is associated with a faulty increase in Hemoglobin A1C levels

BACKGROUND

Hypothyroidism causes many metabolic abnormalities as well as multiple clinical symptoms. Some studies suggest that blood sugar may be affected in hypothyroidism and levels may increase. Indeed, it has been noted that patients with diabetes who also have hypothyroidism may have higher levels of Hemoglobin A1C (HBA1C). This test is done to diagnose and monitor control of blood sugar by patients with diabetes. An elevated HBA1C usually indicates worse control of diabetes.

And also from the Endocrine Society:

Thyroid Dysfunction and Diabetes Mellitus: Two Closely Associated Disorders

Abstract

Several studies have documented the increased prevalence of thyroid disorders in patients with diabetes mellitus and vice versa. This review critically discusses the different underlying mechanisms linking type 1 and 2 diabetes and thyroid dysfunction to demonstrate that the association of these two common disorders is unlikely a simple coincidence.

 

[Outlier]

Dr. Jean Dodds is a terrific source of information on thyroid issues, if you like to research.

 

[Uncle Fred]

Dr. Jean Dodds is a terrific source of information on thyroid issues, if you like to research.

Thank you for the reference. from a quick glance, she does appear to have published many papers on the subject.