Type 2 STATINS - Side Effects and Pros and Cons of Taking Them

[Synbad]

I’ve got Type 2 Diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol which have all been well-controlled over the years by medication. I’ve had to change the Statins several times because of various side effects including muscle aches and have ended up on Rosuvastatin.
Over the past year, however, my muscle problems have got worse with aches , sprains and weaknesses which have been quite incapacitating, caused sleepless nights and resulted in me having treatment by a physio and an osteopath.I’ve been tired and sometimes having daytime naps, taking painkillers, frustrated because I couldn’t do some physical things I used to do e.g. gardening and lifting up my grand-daughter without consequences, fuzzy-thinking and generally quite a negative outlook on life.

My suspicion has always been that it was caused by statins so I arranged with a doctor that I stop taking them for 6 weeks and then have a blood test to see what effect it had on my cholesterol, muscles etc. I also improved my diet (which was quite good anyway) and increased my exercise to compensate.
Since stopping them, I have felt much better in many ways - no incapacitating muscle problems and therefore more active and energetic,I get more done which makes me more positive and confident and generally happier. I’m more sociable and clearer headed.
BUT, when I rang up for blood test results I was really disappointed to hear that my cholesterol has gone up from 5.2 to 6.7and the doctor had left a message to say start taking statins again or make an appointment to see the doctor.
I’ve made an appointment but it’s weeks away and in the meantime I’m worrying what to do.

So what I’d like to know is :
*How much does my risk of heart attack or stroke increase if I don’t take statins ?
*Can I lower my cholesterol sufficiently through diet and exercise ?
*Do I go back on to statins while I try diet and exercise but then risk muscle problems which make exercise more difficult ?
I would love to hear any advice or similar experiences that help me decide what to do and stop me worrying about it. Thanks.

 

[Mike d]

No-one could answer those questions with absolute certainty ..... so if you're looking for personal opinions, then here are mine.

1. Doctors (many) will tell you that the risk increases. I have doubts about that but they're personal to me
2. Yes ... again my opinion.
3. No .... again my opinion.

Mike

 

[Indy51]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Statins is a subject that always raises many differences of opinion, so doing your own research and making up your own mind about it is really the only way to be 100% comfortable with any decision you make. Personally, I will never be convinced to take them again, no matter what - even more so after seeing the estimate that the most they would add to my lifespan would be 4 days!

There are many threads about them on the forum, so you might find some good information by reading them. Here are a couple of more recent ones:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/poll-side-effects-from-statins.58409/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/statins-good-or-bad-what-does-the-research-say.90050/

There is also this recent media article: http://www.express.co.uk/news/sunday/588889/Statin-drug-linked-increasing-side-effects-deaths

 

[Indy51]

And another recent thread about statins I just found:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/damaged-by-statin.73180/

 

[Mike d]

Is it just me or does anyone else think it's time for a new members poll on statins? The reason I ask is that we could then quote the percentage for and against from those who participate and then point to it.

 

[Barry Holt]

GM this subject appears again in this mornings Daily Express saying after studies they are responsible for a number of problems,I will wait for one of our learned friend to post about this but the one thing it doesn't split into two is where it says it cause diabetes but it leaves out which type,I take Atorvastatin and have for sometime thought about stopping taking them but I'm not sure which is the right way to go,I know it will have to be a personal decision but again reading knowledgeable post is always a great help

 

[Barry Holt]

Hi again similar article in Daily Mail

 

[ickihun]

I’ve got Type 2 Diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol which have all been well-controlled over the years by medication. I’ve had to change the Statins several times because of various side effects including muscle aches and have ended up on Rosuvastatin.
Over the past year, however, my muscle problems have got worse with aches , sprains and weaknesses which have been quite incapacitating, caused sleepless nights and resulted in me having treatment by a physio and an osteopath.I’ve been tired and sometimes having daytime naps, taking painkillers, frustrated because I couldn’t do some physical things I used to do e.g. gardening and lifting up my grand-daughter without consequences, fuzzy-thinking and generally quite a negative outlook on life.

My suspicion has always been that it was caused by statins so I arranged with a doctor that I stop taking them for 6 weeks and then have a blood test to see what effect it had on my cholesterol, muscles etc. I also improved my diet (which was quite good anyway) and increased my exercise to compensate.
Since stopping them, I have felt much better in many ways - no incapacitating muscle problems and therefore more active and energetic,I get more done which makes me more positive and confident and generally happier. I’m more sociable and clearer headed.
BUT, when I rang up for blood test results I was really disappointed to hear that my cholesterol has gone up from 5.2 to 6.7and the doctor had left a message to say start taking statins again or make an appointment to see the doctor.
I’ve made an appointment but it’s weeks away and in the meantime I’m worrying what to do.

So what I’d like to know is :
*How much does my risk of heart attack or stroke increase if I don’t take statins ?
*Can I lower my cholesterol sufficiently through diet and exercise ?
*Do I go back on to statins while I try diet and exercise but then risk muscle problems which make exercise more difficult ?
I would love to hear any advice or similar experiences that help me decide what to do and stop me worrying about it. Thanks.

Hi @Synbad
I advise my partner whose family history is stokes in older age.
I advise him to take them if no side affect for him.
My reasoning is they help long term and are ideal for high risk patients.
Are all diabetics high risk or will always be?
Who can predict the future?
My answer is if you feel you're at risk take them.
Would you still take insulin or other diabetic meds even though all have side affects?
I currently have to take insulin even though it adds weight and I'm severely over weight already. I'd rather that than amputation etc.
Taking any medication directed from a medic is advisory. Some makes more sense than others. E.g Asprin saga for all diabetics. Do you remember that one?

 

[asparagusp]

Interesting article in The Daily Mail about statins doubling the risk of developing diabetes. Also read the comments. - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iabetes-according-alarming-10-year-study.html

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I stopped Simvastatin because it reduced me to a zombie - I was having to take a mid-day nap to get through the day. Stopping cleared it almost instantly.

Later I tried Pravastatin. It seemed O.K. to me but before I tried major diet changes I came off all medication to measure a baseline so I could work out what changes (if any) were due to diet. My partner then told me that coming off it had significantly improved my mood - far less grumpy. She hadn't wanted to say anything before because if I was reliant on the medication then there wasn't much we could do.

So for me, two statins with problems. I won't take any more.

On the cholesterol front, don't worry too much - certainly not before you have had a good chat with your doctor.
My cholesterol went up after stopping statins. Total cholesterol went up even further when I started LCHF. However the ratio between "good" and "bad" was still fine.

My BP is good, and in the last year I have had an abdominal scan to check for aortic aneurysm (standard screening) and my aorta was the right size and showed no sign of any deposits on the walls. So I am concluding at the moment that the higher cholesterol isn't doing me any obvious harm.

Thinking on cholesterol levels is also changing and there seems less evidence that high cholesterol (especially if balanced) is linked with higher cardiovascular risk.

However, we are all different.

 

[sally and james]

@Synbad , here's a bit of reading for you:
http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/10/27/how-much-longer-will-you-live-if-you-take-a-statin/
This one is titled, "How much longer will you live if you take a statin?" Just in case you haven't got the time to read it (spoiler alert!!!) the answer is three to four days. There's lot's more on Dr kendrick's blog about statins.

Here is Dr.Zoe Harcombe on the subject: http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2015/03/worried-about-cholesterol-andor-statins/
She is of the view that it's best not to have your cholesterol tested, it will give you one less thing to worry about. She wouldn't touch statins under any circumstances. The rest of her blog is well worth reading too.

Finally, here's a little game to while away the odd half hour, http://www.qrisk.org/index.php
It's called Q Risk and it's what your doctor uses to calculate your risk of an early demise. Try putting in your vital statistics, then play with varying the cholesterol. Only you can say if the variations in life expectancy are worth the suffering caused by statins.

Sally

 

[Daibell]

Hi. This topic regularly pops up. There are stacks of links on the web for statins and the more you read the more you will be cynical about them. Do read Dr Kendricks books; scary. Note that a total cholesterol readings have little relevance. You must look at the LDL. HDL and Trigs numbers; few medics seem to understand this and in the UK just follow NICE guidelines. NICE diabetes guidelines are generally very sensible but not with regard to cholesterol/statins (my personal view). If you have muscle aches/pains and on statins, many would say to stop them and the leaflets usually say this.

 

[Karenhome02]

ive read that statins can lead to insulin resistance and diabeties

 

[Oldvatr]

ive read that statins can lead to insulin resistance and diabeties

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2784799

https://drc.bmj.com/content/5/1/e000438

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25887679/

The trouble is that NICE and the NHS do not have time to read and absorb these formal studies.

 

[JohnEGreen]

I have AF and also an increased risk of clots and strokes I read an article about a study that show statins could help reduce the risk so I stareted taking them at a lowish dose after being discharged from the covid ward but have experienced some uncomfortabls amdominal pains and bowl symptoms so I as an experiment am not going to take the this coming week to see if that makes a difference if not then will resume taking them.

 

[Riva_Roxaban]

When I went on statins the cardiologist said I may have side effects with them, but I never did have any real problems with them, a few aches in the arms more than usual was about all.

I have AF and also an increased risk of clots and strokes I read an article about a study that show statins could help reduce the risk so I stareted taking them at a lowish dose after being discharged from the covid ward but have experienced some uncomfortabls amdominal pains and bowl symptoms

I have similar conditions as you AF bad circulation etc, I was put on the Crestor brand statin. I had a blood test last year which showed that my blood counts were down. Traces of blood in the stool samples that were taken over three days the following week

Turns out I have metastatic bowel cancer, with those pain symptoms you have.

My new GP asked what tablets I wanted to stop taking, Crestor came off the list followed by Xaralto, she said that I did not need them either as the anti coagulant was not helping.

Get your GP to check you out @JohnEGreen better to be safe than sorry.

 

[ultradad]

Watched this video and its another nail in the coffin that are statins, i will never take them. A 0.4 percent less chance of a stroke versis all the side effects is not worth it

My dad is 84 and on statins but he has got a irregular heart beat and is on blood thining meds as well so in some cases its ok or needed

 

[BravoKilo]

Statins are controversial, with strong opinions on both sides. Now it is hitting the High Court …

From the BMJ 2022; 376 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o741 (Published 21 March 2022)

“The controversy over the benefits of statins is set to be aired in the High Court in London, in what the senior libel judge has described as the “most significant piece of defamation litigation that I have seen in a very long time.”

Mr Justice Nicklin made the comment in a preliminary ruling in a libel action by Malcolm Kendrick, a GP, and Zoe Harcombe, a researcher, author, and blogger with a PhD in public health nutrition, against Associated Newspapers, publishers of the Mail on Sunday and Mail Online, over articles that labelled them “statin deniers” whose “deadly propaganda” had endangered lives. …

 

[Mbaker]

Statins are controversial, with strong opinions on both sides. Now it is hitting the High Court …

From the BMJ 2022; 376 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o741 (Published 21 March 2022)

“The controversy over the benefits of statins is set to be aired in the High Court in London, in what the senior libel judge has described as the “most significant piece of defamation litigation that I have seen in a very long time.”

Mr Justice Nicklin made the comment in a preliminary ruling in a libel action by Malcolm Kendrick, a GP, and Zoe Harcombe, a researcher, author, and blogger with a PhD in public health nutrition, against Associated Newspapers, publishers of the Mail on Sunday and Mail Online, over articles that labelled them “statin deniers” whose “deadly propaganda” had endangered lives. …

The newspaper would be forewarned to get their ducks in a row, Zoe is formidable and there is no one better at attention to detail. I hope Zoe and Malcolm win, this will prove statins are only marginally beneficial in some circumstances.

 

[Dark Horse]

For those who are interested in the legal nitty-gritty of the case, there is a lot of detail here:- https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/62337fd3b50db9e904de3ac8