Prediabetes Listerine mouthwash can raise BG ?

Omar51

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Regular use of Listerine mouthwash can raise BG. My fasting BG is going up. I wonder if someone has notice the same ?
 

EllieM

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Regular use of Listerine mouthwash can raise BG. My fasting BG is going up. I wonder if someone has notice the same ?

Interesting article here
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320199#Mouthwash-may-destroy-good-oral-bacteria
Compared with participants who did not use mouthwash, those who reported using mouthwash at least twice daily were 55 percent more likely to develop prediabetes or diabetes over 3 years.
and
Many mouthwashes contains antibacterial compounds — such as chlorhexidine — that kill bacteria in order to help prevent gingivitis, tooth decay, and other oral health conditions.
Patel and colleagues suspect that these compounds also destroy “good” bacteria in the mouth that are important for the formation of nitric oxide, which is a chemical compound that helps to regulate insulin — the hormone that controls blood sugar levels.

Having said that, the result was purely observational, and people using mouthwash only once a day weren't affected. You could argue that maybe the heavy mouthwash users had an existing condition that both made them more likely to get T2 and more likely to use mouthwash...?
 
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Omar51

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Interesting article here
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320199#Mouthwash-may-destroy-good-oral-bacteria
Compared with participants who did not use mouthwash, those who reported using mouthwash at least twice daily were 55 percent more likely to develop prediabetes or diabetes over 3 years.
and
Many mouthwashes contains antibacterial compounds — such as chlorhexidine — that kill bacteria in order to help prevent gingivitis, tooth decay, and other oral health conditions.
Patel and colleagues suspect that these compounds also destroy “good” bacteria in the mouth that are important for the formation of nitric oxide, which is a chemical compound that helps to regulate insulin — the hormone that controls blood sugar levels.

Having said that, the result was purely observational, and people using mouthwash only once a day weren't affected. You could argue that maybe the heavy mouthwash users had an existing condition that both made them more likely to get T2 and more likely to use mouthwash...?

Thanks
 

In Response

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@Omar51 you mention your fasting BG is high.
Could this be Dawn Phenomenon and nothing to do with the Listerine?
Might be useful to take a reading before you "swill" to check if that is really the cause.

If your fasting level is still high, I recommend searching fo Dawn Phenomenon - there are loads of threads about this as it is due to the way the human body works by dumping a load of glucose into our blood to give us energy to start the day. Some people experience it in the early hours and some experience it once they get up. The latter is sometimes called Foot On The Floor.
 
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david4503

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I’ll just say first that I am not an attorney representing Johnson & Johnson. I will also say that the mouthwash study linked above is undoubtably utter hogwash. The main antibacterial agent in common mouthwashes is alcohol and where’s the study linking rinsing with alcohol to diabetes? Chlorhexidine is usually prescribed by dentists for use before or after certain dental procedures, not for daily usage. The press loves the good bacteria/bad bacteria storyline so they report it. Doesn’t mean anyone should ditch their Listerine or sue J&J.

Everything doesn’t cause cancer. Or diabetes, for that matter.
 
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Nikki-616

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@Omar51 you mention your fasting BG is high.
Could this be Dawn Phenomenon and nothing to do with the Listerine?
Might be useful to take a reading before you "swill" to check if that is really the cause.

If your fasting level is still high, I recommend searching fo Dawn Phenomenon - there are loads of threads about this as it is due to the way the human body works by dumping a load of glucose into our blood to give us energy to start the day. Some people experience it in the early hours and some experience it once they get up. The latter is sometimes called Foot On The Floor.
Thank you for this ❤
I'm struggling to keep my levels down no matter what eat they i are always double in the morning compared to bed time and am finding it exhausting. Any Dawn phenomenon advice welcomed
 
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catinahat

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Any Dawn phenomenon advice

It's a difficult one to try and answer, there have been lots of ideas on how to combat it. Not eating late at night, eating a little protein like cheese before bed, eating some protein as soon as you wake, a few glasses of wine before bed.
The only one that ever made any difference for me was the wine, and I think that's because your liver is so busy dealing with the alcohol it hasn't got time to do its usual job. And no matter how enjoyable I don't think its a very healthy thing to do every night.
When the liver dumps some of its stored glucose into our blood, its just doing what it's evolved to do. I would have thought that the chances of us stopping it are pretty low.
All we can really do is stop putting the sugar in, that coupled with a bit of fasting should eventually reduce the amount of stored glucose available and reduce the impact of the dawn phenomenon.
Our fasting numbers are usually the last to come down, mine are still higher than I would like.
All we can do is our best and hope it's good enough to keep us healthy.
 
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In Response

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I appreciate it can be different for someone with Type 1 but I find exercise the day before makes a big difference to my DP.
I have always assumed it is because I have exhausted my glucose supplies so don't have as much left to dump the next morning.
 

JohnEGreen

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It contains fluoride which is known to raise blood sugar.
 

david4503

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The basic Listerine sold in the U.S. and probably sold elsewhere does not contain fluoride. But I’m sure there would be a version that does. All these brands have more expensive versions of the base product that they charge more for. Fluoride has been controversial since forever but I’ve never found the negative grumblings convincing. General Jack Ripper in “Dr. Strangelove” was not a fan of fluoride.
 
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EllieM

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The basic Listerine sold in the U.S. and probably sold elsewhere does not contain fluoride. But I’m sure there would be a version that does. All these brands have more expensive versions of the base product that they charge more for. Fluoride has been controversial since forever but I’ve never found the negative grumblings convincing.

I did some more digging after I posted that link and found an interesting analysis published in the british dental association

Mouthwash use and risk of diabetes | British Dental Journal (nature.com)

There were a number of flaws in the study, including the fact that the mouthwash use was self reported, and also that there was no detail as to what type of mouthwash was used.

General Jack Ripper in “Dr. Strangelove” was not a fan of fluoride.
Purity of Essence anyone? :)
 

Omar51

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I do regular testing and keep records. For two weeks the same food and same timings, fasting bg was going up. I was using Listerine 3 times(sometimes 4)after meals, I thought maybe that’s the reason BG went up (cut down to 1 time using Listerine in the morning now).I will keep the test with one Listerine use. Thanks for all the info and help.
 

Omar51

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I do regular testing and keep records. For two weeks the same food and same timings, fasting bg was going up. I was using Listerine 3 times(sometimes 4)after meals, I thought maybe that’s the reason BG went up (cut down to 1 time using Listerine in the morning now).I will keep the test with one Listerine use. Thanks for all the info and help.
 

Omar51

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Omar51

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Well the Listerine I use does not have fluoride.
Well the Listerine I use does not have fluoride.
 

Omar51

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Thank you for this
I'm struggling to keep my levels down no matter what eat they i are always double in the morning compared to bed time and am finding it exhausting. Any Dawn phenomenon advice welcomed

@Nikki-616 I Googled Dawn Phenomenon, doesn’t seem like that’s the issue (not sure). I will do more research. I have been using mouthwash for years. I am using Listerine once a day, and I keep testing and recording. Thanks for info and help.
 

Goonergal

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There were a number of flaws in the study, including the fact that the mouthwash use was self reported, and also that there was no detail as to what type of mouthwash was used.
And also, high blood sugars may lead to gum disease, hence more likely to be using mouthwash?

These correlation studies are a pain.
 
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david4503

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And also, high blood sugars may lead to gum disease, hence more likely to be using mouthwash?

These correlation studies are a pain.

And it’s not just the studies that are a problem. This also happens to be the way a lot of people think about a lot of things. That is, if A is related to B, then presto, A probably caused B. Or vice versa. This is the part where I get to blame the education system again.
 
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Omar51

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And it’s not just the studies that are a problem. This also happens to be the way a lot of people think about a lot of things. That is, if A is related to B, then presto, A probably caused B. Or vice versa. This is the part where I get to blame the education system again.

IMO the best bet is to use moderately!
 

EBe66

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I Googled Dawn Phenomenon, doesn’t seem like that’s the issue (not sure).

What did you find? I have been searching for more then a year and always found something in the lines of "BS starts to rise around 4am and peaks and then goes away with breakfast" which is not what I am seeing every day. A couple of weeks back I finally found a small research paper on I think the ncbi site that did a test with people not eating breakfast (like me) and not using insulin (like me) The result was that BS starts rising around 4am generally peaks between 9-10 and returns to normal values around 1pm which is exactly what I am seeing almost every single day.
Maybe you are seeing this too?
 
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