Which blood test is which?

hanadr

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I've been browsing the threads and I'm wondering if (for some people) there's confusion between the "now this minute" Blood glucose test and the Hba1c
so I thought I'd write a little piece on it.
The test your meter does on that tiny drop of blood produced by the finger stabber, tells you how much glucose is circulating in your blood at the moment you stab your finger. It's units are mmol/l ( millimoles per litre). I mole of Glucose molecules weighs 180 grams. Hence a millimole is 0.18g. If you have 4 litres of blood circulating, you have 0.72 of a gram of dissolved glucose circulating for every 1mmol/l that your meter records. The ideal figure for this is 4.7 mmol/l. Therefore ideally you should have about 19 grams of glucose dissolved in your blood.
Hb A1c is determined by taking a syringeful of blood from a vein and finding out what percentage of the red pigment in it is bonded to glucose. So called GlycylatedHaemoglobin. Haemoglobin picks up glucose whilst being caried round in the red blood cells. The amount it picks up is dependent on the concentration of the glucose that's present. It happens in diabetics and non-diabetics just the same. The tie between the haemoglobin and glucose is irreversible. A red cell lives about 100 days, so, since they're being made and destroyed on a constant producion line, checking the level will show a picture of what the average concentration of circulating glucose has been over the previous 100 days. A non-diabetic has an HbA1c of about 4.5%. 94.5% of their haemoglobin is non-glycylated.
I apologise to anyone who knows all this already. I'm not being patronising, but looking at one or two posts here, made it look as if some people had got confused.
I wonder if that's because folks are being discouraged from doing their own tests and depending on DSNs for all tests.
 

joe159

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well i did not know this' so how often do you need a syringe of blood and who takes it and does it have to be checked.
Joe
 

hanadr

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I get an HbA1c only once a year, because I am VERY stable. The blood is taken by a phlebotomist.I choose to go to the Community hospital for this, because I'm difficult to get blood from and I've always ended up covered in bruises and swellings if I go to the district hospital or let my GP do it.
Because of the roughly 100 day lifespan of the red cells, It's pointless doing HbA1cs more frequently than every 3 months.
It was because someone had written that they had this test monthly, that I wrote my little explanation.
That would be utterly meaningless
 

Dennis

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joe159 said:
well i did not know this' so how often do you need a syringe of blood and who takes it and does it have to be checked.
Joe
Hi Joe,
For most people it is simply a visit to the GP surgery. The blood sample will be taken by your GP or one of the practice nurses. It is sent off to the nearest blood testing laboratory (usually in your local general hospital). The analysis is done at the laboratory and the results are sent back to your GP, usually within 3 days to a week. GPs generally don't have the testing equipment themselves because it's a very expensive piece of kit and can only be used by a specially trained phlebotomist (blood specialist).
 

brianb

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I used to do that testing amongst others, in the local hospital(south Shields) we are or were untill i changed jobs call Medical Laborator Scientific Officers or MLSO's for short :shock:
Brian
 

hanadr

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Dear Brianb
I'd be very pleased if you could explain to me exatly what the procedure is. You could PM me with it. I'm just curious, but then I am curious about absolutely everything
 

manxangel

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My HSBC test isn't done by a syringe? its done with yet another finger prick? they do squeeze to get a lot out and it take 6 minutes in the machine thing.

Maybe the Isle of Man is a step ahead with the old technology. (that would be a bloomin first!)
 

fergus

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Hi Hana,

It's Friday afternoon and my brain has already knocked off for the weekend, but have I got this straight? 0.18g glucose per litre, times 4.7mmol/l, times 4 litres, equals 3.384g glucose?

Since my kids aren't here to stop me doing something stupid, I could well have messed up.

All the best,

fergus
 

Dennis

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manxangel said:
My HSBC test isn't done by a syringe? its done with yet another finger prick? they do squeeze to get a lot out and it take 6 minutes in the machine thing.

Maybe the Isle of Man is a step ahead with the old technology. (that would be a bloomin first!)
Hi Manxangel,
I believe an HBA1C test can only be done with venous blood, which you can't get from a finger prick no matter how hard they squeeze!
 

brianb

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Hi Hanadr

Not much to tell really.

The test can only be done from Venous blood and is usually collected in a vial containg an edta solution to prevent the sample from clotting.

on arrival to the lab the samples requests are logged onto the database and the then the sample is centerfuged to seperate the plasma. It is the Plasma(clear bit) that is used for the acual test. We used to use an automated system called an Cobas integra, ours at the time could handle about 70 samples and in addition to the HBA1C could perform over 60 other tests on a variety of blood samples. Depending on what test you wanted to perform you just selected from the screen what you wanted and then slotted the relevant reagent pack into the machine calibrated the analyser using the control solution supplied with the reagent packs and bobs your uncle to rest is all automatic

At the end of the run the analyser passes the results onto the main compter system and this then ties them up with the relevant patiets details that were entered when the samples first arrived at the Lab. Any abnormal results are flagged up and passed onto the clinical biochemist to verify and request further tests if need be.

As to the chemistry behind the acual test im not 100% sure what goes on inside the machine.

Hope that is of some interest

Regards
Brian
 

hanadr

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Yes that is interesting. that they measure the % glycated Haemoglobin on the fraction of the blood where the haemoglobin isn't.
When I was still at school, when dinosaurs roamed the plains of Bedfordshire, I used to do "work experience" in Bedford General Hospital path Lab. in school holidays. I remember watching tests being done without machines. A cell counter was bought, but hated, because it kept clogging. Technicians used mouth pippettes to transfer cyanide solution and the blood bank contents were in large glass bottles.
A different world!!
 

brianb

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Hi
Just read what i typed and you are right, Im DEFINETALY getting stupider as i get older...im blaming diabetes for this :D

The sample is NOT seperated, im getting confused with something else. Its been 10 years since i last did this and is long forgotten, had to make room in my head for other stuff :D

Anyway apart from the seperation bit all is as above.

Brian
 

gaynor

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Hi all, I have to agree with Manxangel. My sons HBA1C is done with a finger prick test just as Manxangel said. He has his finger pricked as if to have his BS done and it is drawn up into a special vial and put into a machine which takes 6 minutes to get the results. We must have better technology on the South Coast!
 

totsy

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im in yorks and the hospital do it in that machine but my gp does a vial :D i have mine done every 6 mnths
 

brianb

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The analyser we used to use was Huge, and VERY expensive obviously the technologyhas changed in the last 10 years or so, Portable HBA1C testers, wonder if i can get one from Boots :lol:

When I started in the labs we used to test for a drug called warfarin, Patients take it to keep blood clots from forming and the dose has to be monitored, Anyway the analyser for that was very large, slow and expensive. By the time I left the lab were were using a small tester that looked the same as your average glucose meter, used similar test strips and used finger prick samples and a result was ready in under a minute.

God knows what another 10 years will bring.

Brian
 

joe159

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Dont want to sound silly' but what is the point of it and what different medication can you get when you are already on insulin
Joe
 

hanadr

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Fergus!
I can't even check my sums at the moment, but am quite happy to admit I might have got them wrong. However the principle is right isn't it? And a millimole of glucose is 0.18g since a mole is 180g. at I millimole/l for 4 litres of blood that would be0.72g so for an ideal of 4.7 mmol/l the total will be 3.38g. So why I can't do sums at 1:00am I don't know. I don't have a calculator, so my piece of paperand biro must be to blame.
 

fergus

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Hana, if that's the worst mistake you've ever made at 1:00 in the morning, then you have lead a sainted existence! :mrgreen:
All the best,

fergus