My Dad doesn't seem to care about himself or us :(

[Cornwall_Em]

My Dad, whom I do love and I speak out of love for him and my family, has been told today that his pancreas has almost completely disintegrated and he is on insulin as from today.

My Dad has a loving family; myself, my younger sister and niece, and my brilliant mum.

He is 64, very overweight but relatively healthy, despite the diabetes. Since being diagnosed with diabetes a few years ago, when it was controlled using tablets and diet, he has not made any steps to changing his eating habits and trying to get active. He even braggs about the insulin kit and doesn't seem to see how big an issue this is for his own health and for his own family, who love him, but will sadly lose him if he doesn't change.

So, here I am, 37 years old and feel like a confused and helpless child! Out of love for him, I try to respect my Dad for his choice in this matter, but the situation is really difficult for the rest of the family and I don't know how to approach it with my Dad.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you x

 

[lufc]

Hiya.

Everyone deals with getting Diabetes differently and your Dad clearly feels defeated by it. I felt just the same, I was only 13 when I found out, for me that was possibly the worst age because I felt I had my whole life ahead of me and it had just been ruined.
I struggled and still do for years to get my head around it, just didnt care what I did to my body or how to change it.
But once I had my son I realized how important it was to get healthy and under control for him more than anything!God knows I still have days where my sugars are still all over the place but to me that's life, it is never gonna be perfect!!

Have you tried sitting down with him and having a good chat, he may feel that he has to put a brave face on it which is why he is making jokes etc. I felt so lonely when I found out because I didn't know anyone else my age who had got it, and speaking to parents etc wasn't the same cos they didn't know hat I was going through.

Sorry I am going on here, but I just want you to try and see it from your Dad's point of view. In time I am sure his approach will change but he needs time to get his head around it first then his body!!

Claire x

 

[Tormod]

Hi - sounds very difficult for you all.

I am 42 with 4 kids (under 11)and I have been motivated to control both my diabetes and drinking, by thinking about the future and what I will miss if I don't - that almost sounds really depressing! - but actually I don't want to miss my kids growing up, thriving, getting married / having kids, etc, etc - and OK if I don't pop my clogs, I still don't want them to have to push me around in a chair.

So I would say that it will be good for you all to talk about the future and how good it can be. And if I can add - my diet was not good before I was diagnosed. Already a year after diagnosis I am really enjoying lots of food that in turn is making me more positive - and the exercise walking the dogs has been fantastic - discovered loads of walks and wild-life that I never really was aware of before.

Hope it all works out

 

[chocoholic]

Perhaps your Dad is feeling like I did when I went onto insulin. I actually felt like a total failure. My diet didn't change hugely on initial diagnosis because I already had a healthy diet.I've always cooked everything from scratch.After only 1 year on tablets, I had to accept going onto insulin and as I've said I felt I'd failed somewhere.I wondered what I'd done wrong. The diabetes nurse said I was just unlucky as a Type II to go on insulin so quickly but I still felt really down. It takes a while to adjust to having to jab yourself twice a day but I'm sure your Dad will think things through and come to realise that, hard though it is, it's worth looking after himself.

 

[crackers]

Hi, I'm Cornwall_Em's sister, thanks for all the replies, I'm personally feeling fairly hopeless that my dad will ever change and this is just the last straw until he messes his health up completely. He's had Type II for a few years now and progressed from 'change your diet' to more and more pills as things have got worse, it hasn't been a sharp decline, he's had years to change. His nurse has warned him along the way that he needs to lose weight and improve his diet otherwise things will get much worse, but he seems pretty selfish and only willing to do things if they make him feel good, such as eating endlessly, rather than wanting to improve his health. His diet isn't quite as bad as it could possibly be but its quite a long way from 'healthy' and he isn't even trying to improve it.

After the appointment a week or two ago where he was told he'd have to go onto insulin asap he announced proudly to us that he'd only put on half a stone in the last 6 months, as if there was nothing wrong with that. I've worked out his BMI and he's quite a few points over morbidly obese so it's not as though he's just as little on the chubby side. He's had diabetes for years and has mild angina, and it just seems to be luck, not his own efforts, that his health hasn't gone downwards even faster.

Half an hour after the appointment he was stuffing his face with food, which just sums up his regular attitude to food. I think he needs counselling because he has such a bad attitude to his diet and exercise but he refuses all help and tells everyone they're trying to make him feel 'guilty' or 'depressed'. He even dared to tell my mum she wasn't being fair because he supported her through her illness (something serious that wasn't her fault and she did all she could to recover) which shows how selfish he is and how he sees himself as the innocent victim in everything.

Like my sister, and my mum, I just don't know what to do, I'm rapidly losing patience with him - if he's too selfish to even try to help himself then how hard should everyone else try? He won't even acknowledge that it affects other people, not just him. It's the rest of us who will lose a relative earlier than necessary, my mum who'll have to nurse him when his health deteriorates and me who's going to have to explain to my daughter why her grandad is ill/dead. I know illness can happen in the healthiest of people and everyone dies but it's hard to have sympathy when the person concerned doesn't even admit there's a problem.

I know this all makes me sound harsh and uncaring but when you try and help someone and they throw it back just because they're lazy there has to come a point when you snap and get completely fed up, and I think I'm getting very near that point! I don't know what to do or say to him, he seems determined to kill himself and he's almost proud of it so where can the rest of us even start?

 

[Dennis]

Hi Crackers,

Its very difficult to know what to do when someone is determined not to help themselves. There is no doubt that your father is in complete denial, maybe not of the diabetes, but certainly about what it will do to him.

A line you could try is to start talking to him about making sure he has his will sorted out, finding out does he prefer burial or cremation, where would he like the funeral service to be held and what sort of music would he prefer. Its just possible that it may shock some sense into him.

I'm not trying to be deliberately morbid or uncaring, but if the shock tactic doesn't work then these are all things you are going to need to know anyway.

 

[crackers]

Thanks, that might be a good tack to try, I completely agree that's not being morbid, at the rate he's going, we really WILL need to sort those details out fairly soon. Unfortunately, because he's not bedbound (yet) or seriously ill, he thinks everyone is just going over the top about the situation unnecessarily. He definitely is in denial, he must know its his lifestyle that has caused all this and is making it constantly worse but he'd rather act like its an unavoidable illness that he needs pity for.

Shock tactics may be the only way forward

 

[Sukaren]

Im afraid I don't know how to help you with this situation, but I would like to say how sorry I am to hear it, I feel that Dennis's idea may be worth a shot....you have nothing to loose have you? and may be a lot to gain like having your Dad around for as long as possible,that said, some people do have a self distructive streak and there's not a lot that can be done if that is the case.

I wish you well with this plight.

 

[sugar]

Hi Ladies,
I have been type 1 since I was 4. My dad has always insisted that I take teh best care that I can...he didn't want his little girl (me!0 to die before him. This morbid approach worked on me.
Now, 30 years later, my Dad has been diagnosed T2. He is not obese, but now the boot is on teh opther foot, and he doesn't look after himself either...a bit like your Dad. I know how desolute you must feel. I think my Dads attitude is that he would rather have a short, fun life, rather than a long dull one!
Now, I know only too well that looking after yourselfdoesn't mean a dull life...you can still have a pint every so ofetn, but maybe not 3 every night. The only thing that has had any effect on my Dad was my Mum breaking down in tears, and saying that she couldn't live without him. She also now eats the diet he should, and doesn't buy any of the stuff that was his temptation.
He is by no means perfect...I think his nurse still frowns at him, but he is very much improved! I am guessing that your Mum feels the same as mine, and whilst this might fall into the emotional blackmail category....if it works?
It is the irony of it that gets me! Do as I say..not as I do!
He is such a lucky man to have a family that care about him as much as you guys do.

 

[ChocFish]

Hi Em & crackers

Shock tactics suggested by Dennis may actually work very well, just dont come over harsh to him or anything, he probably thinks you are all nagging him and this will make him even more stubborn, he is in denial and if he suddenly makes changes he will feel that his pride is hurt because you guys have been right all along, and deep down he knows it anyway and is probable quite scared too.

Ok, he has had all the info plus your begging and pleading and it hasnt worked so its time to try a different approach (tell what does he actually say when you are all telling him off and pleading with him?)

Just tell him quietly,not accusingly (needs strength I know) next time he is stuffing himself 'ok Dad, we have all talked for years and it hasnt got through to you, to be honest Dad all this is stressing us out big time and is not good for any of us, you are an adult and we all have to face consequences of our actions,. We wont have a go at you anymore, you have choices, then just bite your tongue for a few weeks or so, talk to each other for support, come in here for support but just totally normal around your Dad.

After a few weeks, maybe 4 or so, present him with a funeral plan and all that stuff that Dennis suggested, again make sure you are not accusing or anything, just totally normal and its the sensible thing to do isnt it, for anyone, no matter if they are ill or not or whatever age they are, assure Dad that he is not old but do not mention diabetes, if he clicks on that this is done in relation to diabetes he will rebel more, say you have done this and your next door neighbour has and whatever, everyone should...

I too was in denial for years, with lots of complications, I was barely able to walk, was constantly sick because I had gastroparesis, neuropathy up to my knees and was smelling like a walking bottle of nail polish remover, constantly sweating and sleeping only waking up to stuff my face with chips and cakes and junk. And still didnt take notice, everyone, incl my little boy was pleading with me to do something about this, it wasnt until I developed diabetic foot, a huge ulcer on the ball of my toe, and it wouldnt heal it just got bigger and refused to do anything, nurses coming in 3 times a day giving me injections and all sorts and I still went to secretly stuff myself with sugary and greasy food, till my husband said ok,I am going to call in mental health services and have you sectioned under the mental health act as you are a danger to yourself, that did it for me then. I was so extremely lucky, I fought back, with lots and lots of support and I am really well now, and off medication too and even my legs are back to being hairy again, I could put a rugby player to shame with them!

I dare say your Dad is a comfort eater, he probably thinks like I used to, 'food is the only pleasure that I have left' dont go overboard straight away with changing his diet, do it slowly, bit by bit and maybe he and your Mum could loook into trying something newj together, food as well as activities, it would help to get out of the rut, just dont mention diabetes, say something like 'is this it for the rest of our lives, I feel like I am getting old, come on lets try to liven us up a bit'

I know now I have rambled here, but I hope that you understand what I am trying to tell you here, use some psychology on him, no more telling him off or nagging, just go with the flow and throw in some new things in there now and then starting off with the funeral bit.

Does Dad use a computer? Bring him to this forum but dont let him read the posts here otherwise he will know what a deceiving lot we can be

All the best to all of you

Karen x


Challenges can be stumbling blocks or stepping stones, it depends how you view them

 

[russ621]

Hi Em & Crackers,

Please try not to take your fathers actions as a personal rejection. I'm sure its not meant that way. At 64 he's had a lot of years to become set in his ways. He will now feel the vulnerable one of the family, very hard for a dad & husband. Truth be known he's probably petrified of his insulin kit, but he wants it to be normal, the bragging is probably more for his benefit.

Coping with such a big change is difficult to come to terms with. He's fighting demons that are scorning him for no longer being able to eat what he wants anymore. I know when I was first diagnosed, I was told I couldn't eat chocolate, cakes or sweet foods anymore, I had a mental image of a shutter coming down over my mouth everytime I tried to eat something like that, so I ate them and it didn't!

I went through a hard time last year, I suffered a stroke. Once I got back on my feet, my wife was constantly there for me trying to help me, she found it really hard to deal with, when I refused her help. She took it I was personally rejecting her, not so, I love her, I wanted her to be proud of me not my carer. It caused lots of arguements.

A bit of subtle reverse psycology might work with your dad. Try some recipes for cakes and desserts that are diabetic friendly, leaving for him to take, not knowing that their sugar free of course. If your suffering mum, controls the food shopping, she could try gradually removing the treats he's having.

He's obviously been a loving and caring dad & husband, by the way you both talk about him. That hasn't changed, he's still the same man. He's ( if he's anything like me) trying to convince himself of that.
Once he learns that thousands of us live with diabetes for years, (talking to other diabetics will help, when he's ready)and he's still the same person he was before, it will get easier for him to come to terms with and then the rest of you.

I hope this helps a little, i've been where your dad is, when I was diagnosed 20 years ago and last year.

Take care, Russell

 

[Cornwall_Em]

I've just got to say how much I really appreciate everyone's comments to my thread... everyone's written so much and I just want to thank you for spending the time in replying to me.

To be honest, I just wanted someone to write back saying "smack him around the head with a wet fish", but none such words were forthcoming! Instead, I now have some really good advice and different perspectives on the situation, which helps more than I can say. It's difficult to see it from his point of view, but now I have a better understanding of how he might be feeling, I can show some empathy toward him instead of anger.

Thanks again, Em x

 

[ash]

The problem with Diabetes is that there are a lot of sufferers who live in ignorance of the condition because they don't understand how the body works.

I think him enrolling in DESMOND would help a lot (Diabetes Education And Self Management For Ongoing And Newly Diagnosed)

http://www.leicestershirediabetes.org.uk/display/templatedisplay1.asp?sectionid=196

Ask his GP and they will get him a place on it. The course runs over a couple of mornings, or one day depending on how it is set up in your area and it teaches people how the body works, and how different foods affect the balance.

I found it very useful and there were people from the ages of 40 to 90 in the class. I can't really emphasize how informative it will be, and you can join him also if he is happy to have you along which will no doubt be very interesting for you also.

It is an eye opener and you will find most on the course to be totally ignorant of the way the body works in this respect - every one came away with some sort of enlightenment from mine.

Going onto Insulin is not the end of the world. We will all get there eventually. My own doctor gave me no illusion as to this fact. But the weight issue will play a big part in his management

I think also you should seek counseling yourselves to help you deal with your own feelings about his illness.

Education is the key !

 

[Ellen]

As regards the food, your Dad might just be very weak willed and really can't help it. I am the same and I have asked my GP for a slimming pill. Maybe your Dad could try that? You can't take the one I'm having (Reductil) if you have high blood pressure or have ever had depression. It works by making you feel satisfied with less food. There may be other ones more suitable for your Dad. I know it sounds really weak but some of us need a little help and there is no shame in asking for it. My wake-up call was being told I must go on Insulin or restart Pioglitazone.

 

[linoleum]

Em

Just read this and had to say something as I totally understand what you are going through.
My dad was also similar to your dad, in that he started off on tablets , then went to insulin and made no attempt to be healthy, overate greasy food, drank like a fish and smoked like a chimney.

He acted as though he wasn't diabetic and thought he could do what he liked, and then in 1988, after developing an ulcer in the heel of his left foot, and after removing the ulcer and many months of desperately trying to get it to heal, he eventually had to have his leg amputated from below the knee due to gangrene in his foot.

My parents then took early retirement down to Devon and then in 1993, with my dad still neglecting his health, his toes became blackened on his right foot. He went into hospital where it was decided to remove his right leg from below the knee and then as gangrene spread further they removed more of his right leg up to the thigh. He then developed pneumonia and passed away August 8th 1993.

All this happened because he thought he could just ignore his diabetes and do what he liked without a thought for his family. I have 2 older sisters and my lovely mum who loved him so much, we all did. Please show this to your dad. I know its shocking and upsetting but its a reality if he doesn't get a grip on his condition.

( And by the way I am now Type 2 so I have to live with this condition as is my sister. )

Sandy

 

[crackers]

Reading these comments has been really helpful, I can see the side that he might be scared and putting on a brave face but it just appears and feels as if he really doesn't care, he always seems excited about the fact he has to take pills and now inject himself. He doesn't get animated about much (he's a fairly boring old sod) but when he talks about his latest round of pills or testing his blood sugar its as if he could be talking about a day out! He's literally just been doing that now, which is why I've crept on here feeling completely disgusted.

The main problem is he refuses to admit having diabetes isn't something to be especially proud of, he seems to treat it as something special about him (which is why I think he needs counselling). He's been telling someone today that its nothing to do with him being overweight (morbidly obese) and is just an age thing. He also said all it means is he has to stop eating sugar (strangely cutting down on fat doesn't occur to him), not lose weight, and it'll all be fine. That's ignoring the fact that the weight can make him insulin resistant and the other weight-related problems he's got.

I would have used that moment to talk to him but I was so bothered by his attitude that I knew I'd end up arguing with him so I left it .

When he went onto insulin I printed out all the vital info for him to let him know the risks and how he can help himself but I don't think he even bothered to do more than glance at it. The only next step may be the funeral arrangement thing but because he doesn't think he's got a serious problem he just acts as if we're getting worried for nothing and going over the top .

I wish my mum would say more about it to him but all he has to say to her is that she's 'trying to make him feel guilty/depressed' and she stops so I'm not sure that's going to work too well.

Thanks for the advice about saying something and then completely leaving it, I think at the moment I'm permanently wanting to say something which is extra stress! I/we should just get it all out in one then leave him to it.

Ellen - that's something I hadn't thought of before, maybe a slimming pill would help, anything that stopped him wanting to stuff his face would be good.

Linoleum - sorry to hear about your dad but thanks for sharing that, I really think that's going to be the way my dad will go sooner or later. I don't think he'll bother coming on any diabetes sites but I'll tell him about that, shows that not everyone stays 'fine'.

 

[sugarless sue]

Hi Crackers,sorry to hear about your dad.It is very difficult to deal with someone in complete denial like this.I wonder if your dad is one of these diabetics who think that the medication does all the work therefore they don't have to? I have had a few dealings with non-compliant diabetics in their later years and this can be a theme that they think the medicine is doing the work.have you tried the 'pity you won't be around for grandchildens wedding/graduation/etc etc.'I don't suppose there are any of his friends in the same boat that he might listen too are there? Sometimes you can bash your head on a brick wall trying to get through to someone then along comes someone else,tells them exactly what you've been saying and,bingo!the little light comes on and suddenly they take notice!( That one,when it happens,you could take a throttle them!!!)

Knowledge is the key to control