Carbohydrates

[AMBrennan]

A two hour test is likely to miss the peak so at two hours it could well be coming down and appear to be safer than it is

You're comparing apples and oranges here - yes, the peak will, by definition, be higher than the +2h reading, but you'll have to use different criteria to judge them by.

 

[Pneu]

Do you reallywant to go ketogenic? Do you really want to play with fire with hypoglycaemia? Want muscle wastage? Bad breath? There is PLENTY of evidence that some carbs are needed in the diet.

I think you are confusing ketogenic and ketoacidosis which are TOTALLY separate 'conditions'.

 

[bonzodog]

Do you reallywant to go ketogenic? Do you really want to play with fire with hypoglycaemia? Want muscle wastage? Bad breath? There is PLENTY of evidence that some carbs are needed in the diet.

I think you are confusing ketogenic and ketoacidosis which are TOTALLY separate 'conditions'.

Nope - i am not (and they are not separate conditions) Ketogenesis is the production of ketone bodies through fatty acid breakdown and is caused by a lowering of carbohydrates in the system. High levels of ketones (actually ketone bodies) cause ketoacidosis - in particular acetoacetic acid (pKa 3.58) and beta-hydroxybutyric acid (pKa 4.7)

Acetone is also formed spontaneously from acetoacetic acid which causes the bad breath.

 

[borofergie]

Nope - i am not (and they are not separate conditions) Ketogenesis is the production of ketone bodies through fatty acid breakdown and is caused by a lowering of carbohydrates in the system. High levels of ketones (actually ketone bodies) cause ketoacidosis - in particular acetoacetic acid (pKa 3.58) and beta-hydroxybutyric acid (pKa 4.7)

Acetone is also formed spontaneously from acetoacetic acid which causes the bad breath.

PLENTY of evidence?

 

[Pneu]

Sorry you miss understand my post.. yes ketone when not properly processed in the body can cause problems.. this becomes evident in DKA where due to dehydration (due to the kidneys attempting to remove excess glucose) ketone can not be properly processed and cause the blood to become more acidic.. which in tandem with the dehydration and loss of solutes causes the problems.

Being in a ketogenic state in its self is not dangerous.. I am pretty certain if it was then my endo would have said something by now.

 

[wiflib]

I was remembering the reaction of the nurse when she lifted a wee stick out of the sample I had given her. With one had visibly shaking, hovering over the phone, she asked me if I had breakfast this morning. No, I said, I don't eat breakfast.

Just before she dialed the 9's, I relieved her symptoms by explaining I have been on a ketogenic diet for over four years. I kid you not, the relief on her face! I also explained to her the different types of LDL and at that point, told me I obvioulsy know far more than she does and carry on. She's a little bit in awe of me now.

wiflib

 

[borofergie]

I was remembering the reaction of the nurse when she lifted a wee stick out of the sample I had given her. With one had visibly shaking, hovering over the phone, she asked me if I had breakfast this morning. No, I said, I don't eat breakfast.

That's because, as everyone knows, SugarPuffs make your wee smell, and she'd busted you as a secret carboholic breakfast snacker. Can't say I'm surprised. :thumbdown:

 

[wiflib]

Out of all the cereals I would happliy eat with ice cold milk,* Sugar Puffs isn't one of them. Yeuck.

Now, if you said Cocoa Pops......

wiflib






*no, I don't bl**dy eat them. I said I would not that I do.

 

[borofergie]

*no, I don't bl**dy eat them. I said I would not that I do.

 

[wiflib]

Strange how easily it is to go off some people............

 

[borofergie]

Strange how easily it is to go off some people............

 

[xyzzy]

Nope - i am not (and they are not separate conditions) Ketogenesis is the production of ketone bodies through fatty acid breakdown and is caused by a lowering of carbohydrates in the system. High levels of ketones (actually ketone bodies) cause ketoacidosis - in particular acetoacetic acid (pKa 3.58) and beta-hydroxybutyric acid (pKa 4.7)

Nope afraid you are wrong. You are confusing benign dietary ketosis which is a biochemically regulated and controlled process that results in a mild release of fatty acids and ketone bodies with ketoacidosis a condition in which massive, way above normal quantities of ketones are produced in an unregulated, wildly out of control biochemical situation.

Just type the two words in side by side into a serach engine and you will find countless sites that describe the difference at various levels of science lingo. This one is a good one http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-ketosis-dangerous which includes this diagram.

 

[bonnynemia]

Hi Everybody:

I am not here to promote high-carb meals. What I have been promoting for more than 21 years (since my diagnosis as a type 2 in July 1991) is to make all newly-diagnosed type 2s and prediabetics aware that, like me, they can discover for themselves their own special, unique, effective, safe, cheap, and easy way to manage their diabetes.

FYI, my diagnosis is based on a fasting blood sugar reading of 468 mg/dl (the measurement used in the U.S.). I was supposed to be on several anti-diabetes pills, but I refused to take them. So I was required to take a stress test. As soon as I passed it, I started running our stairs in the house for a daily total time of 2 hours. In about 10 days, my blood sugar readings were already in the 130 mg/dl range. So very very early in my life as a diabetic, I already knew that daily exercise was the best anti-diabetes med for me.

Why don't I include the heart-healthy, natural, fresh (raw or cooked), unprocessed, whole foods I have been eating as a part of 'my way' of controlling my diabetes? Because most of them are carbohydrates. Why do I eat a lot of carbohydrates which truly create high fasting and 2-hour after-meal blood sugar readings? To see how badly they will affect me.

Why don't I have any diabetes complications yet? I don't know.

Why do I keep on getting A1c's ranging from 5.2% to 6.3? Who knows.

Why have I not had a single hypo episode for more than 21 years? If you know, please tell me.

Why am I healthy, happy, productive, having a long life, and living like I have no diabetes? Only God knows.

Thanks for your time.

Bonny Damocles
Male, 76 1/2 years old, 141 lbs, 5'7"

 

[Grazer]

Why have I not had a single hypo episode for more than 21 years? If you know, please tell me.

Why would you? Diabetes doesn't cause hypos. The insulin, and other strong sugar lowering meds (not metformin) that some diabetics have to take cause hypos. As you say you don't take pills, you won't get hypos, same as me and all others on the same treatment regime of diet and exercise.

 

[borofergie]

Why don't I include the heart-healthy, natural, fresh (raw or cooked), unprocessed, whole foods I have been eating as a part of 'my way' of controlling my diabetes? Because most of them are carbohydrates.

Depends what you mean by "heart healthy", but meat, green vegetables, eggs and heavy creams and cheese all have low levels of carbohydrates. If by "heart healthy" you mean grains, then I agree, that stuff is bad for you.

 

[RoyG]

Hi Bonny, I have read your story and yes it's an intriguing one, but I don't think many could run up and down stairs for two hours every day, and as you say some that tried encountered problems, I for one used reducing my carbohydrate intake and exercise to gain control and found that to be highly effective means of doing so. I may add that my exercise regime was not full on attack but progressive and built up slowly over the preceding months, I would not advise anybody to do any strenuous exercise right from the start and if they are unfit or suffer with any other conditions to first have an consultation with their GP . I can take onboard carbs without too much of an effect on my BG, I think in my case, I was more pre-diabetic than a full blown type 2 and may or may not have dodged the bullet but time will Tell on that. But as you say Only God knows what are the answers or better understanding of this condition and dietary functions? hopefully in time they will discover the cure or a better way to help and control Diabetes. But first I think they must listen to those that are managing to successfully control it and look at their diets.

 

[bonnynemia]

Why have I not had a single hypo episode for more than 21 years? If you know, please tell me.

Why would you? Diabetes doesn't cause hypos. The insulin, and other strong sugar lowering meds (not metformin) that some diabetics have to take cause hypos. As you say you don't take pills, you won't get hypos, same as me and all others on the same treatment regime of diet and exercise.

Grazer,

I truly love what you just said. Not many people know that. Not very long after my diagnosis, I read a statement from the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), that type 2s who do not use anti-diabetes pills and/or insulin have zero chance of getting hypo episodes.

Thanks.

Bonny Damocles

 

[Defren]

Why have I not had a single hypo episode for more than 21 years? If you know, please tell me.

Why would you? Diabetes doesn't cause hypos. The insulin, and other strong sugar lowering meds (not metformin) that some diabetics have to take cause hypos. As you say you don't take pills, you won't get hypos, same as me and all others on the same treatment regime of diet and exercise.

Grazer,

I truly love what you just said. Not many people know that. Not very long after my diagnosis, I read a statement from the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), that type 2s who do not use anti-diabetes pills and/or insulin have zero chance of getting hypo episodes.

Thanks.

Bonny Damocles

Hello Bonny, I think you will find there are many T2's who do know that. :lol:

 

[bonnynemia]

Why don't I include the heart-healthy, natural, fresh (raw or cooked), unprocessed, whole foods I have been eating as a part of 'my way' of controlling my diabetes? Because most of them are carbohydrates.

Depends what you mean by "heart healthy", but meat, green vegetables, eggs and heavy creams and cheese all have low levels of carbohydrates. If by "heart healthy" you mean grains, then I agree, that stuff is bad for you.

Borofergie,

Yes, I definitely mean grains. After more than 21 years of eating lots and lots of grains, I always get scary high fasting and 2-hour after-meal blood sugar readings. To me, it looks like that the conventional wisdom that high-carb meals are bad for type 2s does not apply to me now and maybe forever.

Have you known another type 2 who has been doing the opposite of what I have been doing insofar as foods are concerned who has done as well as, or better than, I have? If you do, please tell him that I want to compare notes with him.

Thanks for sharing your thought.

Bonny Damocles

 

[bonnynemia]

Hi Bonny, I have read your story and yes it's an intriguing one, but I don't think many could run up and down stairs for two hours every day, and as you say some that tried encountered problems, I for one used reducing my carbohydrate intake and exercise to gain control and found that to be highly effective means of doing so. I may add that my exercise regime was not full on attack but progressive and built up slowly over the preceding months, I would not advise anybody to do any strenuous exercise right from the start and if they are unfit or suffer with any other conditions to first have an consultation with their GP . I can take onboard carbs without too much of an effect on my BG, I think in my case, I was more pre-diabetic than a full blown type 2 and may or may not have dodged the bullet but time will Tell on that. But as you say Only God knows what are the answers or better understanding of this condition and dietary functions? hopefully in time they will discover the cure or a better way to help and control Diabetes. But first I think they must listen to those that are managing to successfully control it and look at their diets.

RoyG,

Thank you very much for your story. It clearly proves my point that all type 2s have the power to discover for themselves their own special, unique, effective, safe, easy, lasting, and inexpensive way to manage their diabetes. I believe that everybody must always be DUMBER (disciplined, upbeat, motivated, bold, empowered, resourceful).

Enjoy life always!!!

Bonny Damocles