Ketogenic diet made me ill

[Anonymous]

My concern is that when I was in ketosis, I felt very weak and thought I was going to pass out.. My own conclusion is that for me, the middle way was best for me. I feel calm and lucid just like you...... just not knackered all the time! I have also learned that ketosis can put a strain on the liver and kidneys.

Hyperglycemia did cause headaches and memory loss. In fact it was so bad that my GP initially thought I had a brain tumour and sent me to the local hospital for an MRI scan which, thankfully, revealed no such problems. It was the accompanying blood test that diagnosed the diabetes. Also, hyperglycemia made me aggressive and, in some cases, abusive which is not like me at all.

I think it is important for people to try different strategies to see what works for them. For me, going from a hyper- to a near hypoglycemic state simply replaced one set of problems with another.

I am now on a low carbohydrate, low GI diet, with the majority of the carbs consumed at breakfast which sets me up for the day. Like most things, balance is the key.

Dave

 

[borofergie]

My concern is that when I was in ketosis, I felt very weak and thought I was going to pass out.. My own conclusion is that for me, the middle way was best for me. I feel calm and lucid just like you...... just not knackered all the time! I have also learned that ketosis can put a strain on the liver and kidneys.

If it's not right for you that's fine. There is more than one way to skin your diabetes, and I think that GL is an excellent alternative choice. However, for the avoidance of doubt: ketosis does not put a strain on the liver and kidneys.

This is an urban myth based on the misconception that ketogenic diets are high-protein. You cannot eat high-protein and be in ketosis. To be in ketosis you need to restrict both carbs and protein. The share-your-diet thread shows that the hard core keto-dieters (me and Libby) eat less protein than almost everyone else on the forum (especially the higher-carb/GI/GL people):
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30311&start=75&hilit=pie+chart

But this is besides the point, high-protein diets are not associated with kidney health
http://www.jissn.com/content/1/1/45
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

In fact they are associated with lower blood pressure:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... eid=201882
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/38/4/821.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20711407

and improved BG control:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/4/734.short
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/3/425.short
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/co ... 2375.short

Blood-pressure and BG control are key risk factors for kidney disease.

Since my liver is not overflowing with glycogen, and I don't have any fatty deposits, it's difficult to see how ketosis could be harmful to my liver (unlike a high-carb diet).

I think it is important for people to try different strategies to see what works for them. For me, going from a hyper- to a near hypoglycemic state simply replaced one set of problems with another.

Again, ketosis is you body's protection mechanism against hypoglycemia, if you are in ketosis, you will not be hypoglycemic.

Rather than "near-hypoglycemic" state I think what you mean is "normal blood sugars". I agree that is uncomfortable to start with, but I think that the payoff is worth it in the end.

 

[Anonymous]

This is an urban myth based on the misconception that ketogenic diets are high-protein. You cannot eat high-protein and be in ketosis. To be in ketosis you need to restrict both carbs and protein.

So precisely what do you eat then? Lard? :roll:

 

[borofergie]

This is an urban myth based on the misconception that ketogenic diets are high-protein. You cannot eat high-protein and be in ketosis. To be in ketosis you need to restrict both carbs and protein.

So precisely what do you eat then? Lard? :roll:

About 80% fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs.

But yeah, I try to eat as much saturated fat as possible, and as little polyunsaturated.

 

[noblehead]

I think it is important for people to try different strategies to see what works for them.

Can't argue with that Dave :thumbup:

 

[Mileana]

I have been asked to moderate this thread as OP was feeling patronized.

People have been trying to reply to this post with their experiences of the ketogenic diet. It has been mentioned multiple times in the thread that people are different.

This is an online forum where people share their experiences. Noone is a medical professional when writing on here. Personal variations in language, sense of humour etc can be expected.

To the OP: If you discuss low carb diets and mention wanting 'a big cake' you are likely to attract some raised eyebrows from fellow low carbers. They have all said that maybe low carbing needs to be less low. There has been links and research provided to you to look at.

If you do not feel well on a ketogenic/low carb diet, I can only recommend you discontinue or modify it to suit your needs. It is not an exact science. You will of course get answers from low carbers who find it works for them. Expecting them to denounce the diet that has done them much good would be odd - the best they can do is say: Do what works for you. They have done that.

Everyone, please be careful with online 'jokes' and 'sassy remarks' they don't always come across entirely as you want them too.

Please consider if the thread has now had its time, it seems to be going around in circles a bit.

 

[Anonymous]

The eating cake bit was intended as a bit of humour. I didn't think it would be misinterpreted as it was meant to be funny!

And I did not expect anyone to denounce anything. Honestly, I wonder why I bother! I asked for moderation, only to have my nose rubbed in it even further. I shall not bother posting on here again. Sorry, but i'll get my support elsewhere.

 

[phoenix]

If you are still looking, can I suggest that you look at the Univ of Sydney GI site.
http://www.glycemicindex.com/
That site (on the GI news) also has a success story thread but more importantly it has a lot info that will help you. I have LADA and now take insulin. I use GI principles to select the starchy carbs I eat. I also am fairly careful about the amount and usually weigh to check.
I also did that for the time between first detecting high blood glucose and becoming so insulin deficient that I needed to use insulin, a period of over 3 years. It worked and works for me.
It is a shame that you feel the need to leave the forum, though I understand why.

edited, sorry wrong link

 

[anna29]

Hi ursus262.
Would some suggestions of alternative food/meal suggestions help you?
You could try modify your own food/diet planning with other members idea's...?
Sometimes things need eliminating if unsuitable?
Then try an alternative that you find - you can tollerate better! :thumbup:
Over time discover a much more suitable regime for yourself ?
We can and do offer you help,suggestions,support.
Hope this helps ?
Anna.

 

[Defren]

The eating cake bit was intended as a bit of humour. I didn't think it would be misinterpreted as it was meant to be funny!

And I did not expect anyone to denounce anything. Honestly, I wonder why I bother! I asked for moderation, only to have my nose rubbed in it even further. I shall not bother posting on here again. Sorry, but i'll get my support elsewhere.

Whoa there, let me pick the toys back up and tell you something that happened to me on this forum involving Boro and xyzzy

One day, I hadn't been diagnosed very long, but long enough to know what I was supposed to do, and what was supposed to happen if I did as I was meant to. I can't remember what went wrong, but something did, and I came here waving my arms around pleading for help. Firstly xy came and poured comforting words on my woe's, then Boro came along told me to stop being a bl**dy drama queen and to do what he advised me. Xy came along and added to my woe's by agreeing with everything Boro advised. I could have logged off and bogged off, where would that have got me? Instead, I picked MY toys up, tucked my lip in my big girl knickers and heeded his advice.

Not long after this, I got to know xy and Boro a lot better, via private message. Those two and a couple of others, including a wee sheep soon became excellent friends and supporters. I worked really hard, following what I had been told and got an HbA1c of 4.9%. I put that all down to their help, and the fact I chose not to flounce.

Your BG does suggest a false hypo, and believe me, I know they are horrible. I have had a couple myself. It does ease, however that doesn't mean you have to follow a ketogenic diet. I love my keto diet, and wouldn't change it for millions, but that's because it works for ME! There is nothing wrong with a GI GL diet, if that suits you better. Just tuck your lip in your big boy pants and accept people spend time typing to you, because they want to help!

By the way, I have cake and am ketogenic, I just make my own low carb variety. :wink:

 

[borofergie]

I could have logged off and bogged off, where would that have got me? Instead, I picked MY toys up, tucked my lip in my big girl knickers and heeded his advice.

...and those were pretty big knickers back in the day!

 

[Defren]

I could have logged off and bogged off, where would that have got me? Instead, I picked MY toys up, tucked my lip in my big girl knickers and heeded his advice.

...and those were pretty big knickers back in the day!

Ha ha ha, weren't they just? Now I have girly panties - whoo Hoo (TMI I know, but Boro likes the details). :lol:

 

[xyzzy]

Jo thanks for the kind words but I don't actually believe that I or boro have anything to apologise for.

I said

Diet wise just do what you think is long term sustainable for yourself. If you can keep your BG's in safety and have found a regime you can continue with then the amount of carbs is immaterial.

and boro said effectively the same thing

If it's not right for you that's fine. There is more than one way to skin your diabetes, and I think that GL is an excellent alternative choice.

Both of us then did then make references to going off the straight and narrow but then every T2 needs to be reminded of that once in a while as it is a condition for life and unlike insulin using diabetics we (and the OP) can't simply cover an increase in carbs by injecting more or upping the dial on our pump!

 

[Defren]

I absolutely don't think you have anything to apologize for either Steve. My post was simply pointing out, quite often we hear things we don't want to hear, or read in this case. Sometimes accepting the right advice is a bitter pill to have to swallow. I am saying I chose to swallow the pill and at the end it benefited me, so while we may not always like advice given, sometime even if we just bite the bullet and try, it works out in our best interest.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Anna. Thank you for your constructive post. I guess the problem for me is that I find the whole idea of modifying my diet from my pre-diagnosis days is really difficult. It's not that I don't understand the mechanisms of how the body reacts to food - it's more about finding a solution that is right for me and that I can live with.

I felt ill on the ketogenic diet, and it wasn't just the temporary phase either. In fact, I felt dreadful all the time which is why I sought advice here.

I am having a tough time managing my diabetes at the moment with all sorts of conflicting advice coming from different sources. I'm thoroughly confused and it doesn't help with having an HBA1C test every six months. I do test with a BG meter and I get my test strips for free as I work in the Medical Devices industry, so I know who to ask. I do eat to my meter.

I've got a breakfast thread and am trying different foods and recording the results. Any practical advice would be helpful.

 

[Defren]

Hi Anna. Thank you for your constructive post. I guess the problem for me is that I find the whole idea of modifying my diet from my pre-diagnosis days is really difficult. It's not that I don't understand the mechanisms of how the body reacts to food - it's more about finding a solution that is right for me and that I can live with.

I felt ill on the ketogenic diet, and it wasn't just the temporary phase either. In fact, I felt dreadful all the time which is why I sought advice here.

I am having a tough time managing my diabetes at the moment with all sorts of conflicting advice coming from different sources. I'm thoroughly confused and it doesn't help with having an HBA1C test every six months. I do test with a BG meter and I get my test strips for free as I work in the Medical Devices industry, so I know who to ask. I do eat to my meter.

I've got a breakfast thread and am trying different foods and recording the results. Any practical advice would be helpful.

The best brekkie, is likely to be things like bacon and eggs, if you feel you need a few carbs, add around a third of a tin of no sugar bakes beans. An omelette made with things you like. Full fat Greek yogurt with berries, flax and chia seeds. Cold meats and cheese, add a dressing with fat in it, like mayo, to keep you fuller longer (the chia do that as well). I don't eat breakfast, but these are idea's you could try. Take a bit of cheese wrapped up, then if you feel ugh, eat the cheese, rather than the flapjack. The cheese will do you more good and not spike your BG.

 

[anna29]

Hi All.
I sometimes have a sliced up boiled egg wrapped up with a slice of cheese in some wafer-thin ham.
Alternatively an omelette with mushrroms,peppers,cheese inside it.
Or 2 rashers of well grilled or even oven baked bacon plus 2 poached eggs.
Lettuce parcels are a fave of mine - large lettuce leaves stuffed with all fave things like
cucumber,celery,pepperslices,egg sliced,wafer-thin ham, slice of cheese.
Add in a fave suitable dressing roll them up and enjoy! I do, so quick and easy to make too.
Accompanied with a lovely steaming cup of hot coffee with a splash of cream in it!
I actually eat these for lunchtime as I cant tollerate a breakfast after YEARS of never
having a breakfast! Since being a teenager.
But I DO have to have a coffee or two, to set me up for the day...
There IS plenty of choice and options - it is just KNOWING what they are or what they may be...
I am always rooting out food suggestions and options as to keep going around in circles
eating the same again and again and again. I then start struggling ...
We all need variety and varied meals to keep things balanced and make progress positive results.
With our blood sugar levels and weight stablised etc...
It isnt an easy thing to do - but it can be do-able with the right options that work
for you.
Hope these extra suggestions may be of help?
Anna.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Anna

This week, I tried some rolled oats in yoghurt which was nice, and hardly touched my BG levels. In fact, it keeps me going until lunchtime. Defren's idea of a fry-up sounds good, and I tend to indulge in this at weekends. I do find in the week, though, that I'm always in a rush to get out of the house so tend to prefer something quick and easy.

The other issue that throws things a bit is my job: I travel all over the world for my job, and it's always a challenge. It's not always possible to get the right sort of food, although salads are pretty universal. Last week, for example, I went to Paris and ended up eating a baguette, with predictable consequences!

I am beginning to find that low GI carbs, eaten in moderation, especially in the morning, seem to work well for me.

I try to keep my BG between 6 and 7 or 7.5 tops. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[xyzzy]

The issue of what to eat for lunchtimes when I'm out and about is a real problem. Like you say there is only so much cheese, ham and eggs you can take before it gets boring. I've actually settled on something like a prawn and mayo wholemeal bread sandwich. I can just get away with two slices of real bread if the content of the sandwich is high fat as that and the fact its brown bread help slow down the effect of the bread. If you have access to a microwave in your normal office then taking some homemade soup (or anything you can heat up) is an option. If you want to live dangerously and actually eat something like a pasta based thing then if you cook the pasta let it cool in your fridge overnight and reheat its BG raising effects will have been lowered by a significant bit. Not enough to go mad with but the effect is well documented. You can do a similar trick with bread. At home I deep freeze the Burgen and then always eat it as toast. The cool down heat up trick seems to work on that as well for me at least. Its called retrograding starches.

 

[anna29]

Hello ursus262.
Hmmm work away with your job?
Raid the continental brekky platters
Slices of cheese, ham, gherkins, olives, beef tomato slices, fish etc...
Plonk it all on a plate and enjoy ?
If you're NOT taking a statin you can try a little grapefruit ?
This is IF you like it? I LOVE it actually.
But this isnt about me - its further ideas and options for you!
Steer clear of the pure fruit juices though as these can be loaded up with hidden
sugars.
Hope this helps you feel more confident when out of the uk travelling with your work :thumbup:
Anna.